H E L P!! (it's always the same...)

I know I am not a frequent writer of this group, but that is because I haven't got enough acknowledge of what you discuss. Even if I know this I need your help, and it is not the first time. Well, I am writing a sort of a biography about Takasugi Shinsaku and I am trying to put an end to this. But now I have a problem due to my poor japanese level. I found an exchange of poetries between Takasugi and Nomura Boto. The firts is a poetry wrote by Takasugi while he was lying sick in bed:

omoshiroki koto mo naki yoni yo=the first kanji of SEKAI-world
omoshiroku

to this Nomura answered:

suminasumo nowa
kokoro narikeri

and then, finally, Takasugi wrote:

omoroinou

I translated the first poetry with in a singular way, trying to underline Takasugi's spirit

even in a world without matters
do something meaningful

(well in italian it sounds a little better...)

but for the second and third poetry I am in big troubles. So I am looking for someone help to translate it in english...or in french, in italian... in particular the second one it is very important! The third one could also be eliminated from my text.
I am beggin you all!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please ...
thanks in advance!
Frison Daniele

ps: this is the web link where I was able to find this poetry http://www.webkohbo.com/info3/takasugi/togyoan.html


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> Daniele


> omoshiroki koto mo naki yoni yo=the first kanji of SEKAI-world
> omoshiroku
>
> to this Nomura answered:
>
> suminasumo nowa
> kokoro narikeri
>
> and then, finally, Takasugi wrote:
>
> omoroinou

I was intrigued by this and have been doing some research on it. I
found the original poem in one of my books on Takasugi and a
Japanese aquaintance sent me this translation:

To live uninteresting life interestingly ( or with interest),
Is up to one's mind,
How interesting !

I might add "How one lives" or "the way one lives" to the second line
(suminasu)

Nomura Motoni or Botoni (it is read both ways, it seems) (1806-67)
was a poet and nun who corresponded with Takasugi and Saigo
Takamori among others and was exiled for her imperialist sympathies
to the island of Himejima.

Hope this helps,

Gillian

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You know Gillian? You will be thanked on the first page of my thesis! Not only you gave me interesting books and web site where to find some stuff about Takasugi, you also help me with the translation!
I sincerely thank you!
THAAAAAAANKS A LOT!!
Maybe I will send you something about Takasugi written by myself!
Cheers!
Daniele

Gillian Rubinstein <gillian@...> wrote:

>> Daniele


> omoshiroki koto mo naki yoni yo=the first kanji of SEKAI-world
> omoshiroku
>
> to this Nomura answered:
>
> suminasumo nowa
> kokoro narikeri
>
> and then, finally, Takasugi wrote:
>
> omoroinou

I was intrigued by this and have been doing some research on it. I
found the original poem in one of my books on Takasugi and a
Japanese aquaintance sent me this translation:

To live uninteresting life interestingly ( or with interest),
Is up to one's mind,
How interesting !

I might add "How one lives" or "the way one lives" to the second line
(suminasu)

Nomura Motoni or Botoni (it is read both ways, it seems) (1806-67)
was a poet and nun who corresponded with Takasugi and Saigo
Takamori among others and was exiled for her imperialist sympathies
to the island of Himejima.

Hope this helps,

Gillian

>
>>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

--------------------~-->

> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your

home page

> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/BcOolB/TM
>

------------------------------------------------------------
--------~->

>
> ---
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> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> You will be thanked on the first page of my thesis! Not only you gave

me interesting books and web site where to find some stuff about
Takasugi, you also help me with the translation!

No problem. In fact the last question you raised was of great interest to
me as it introduced me to Nomura Motoni, about whom I knew
absolutely nothing, but now I am very interested in her and her life. I'm
reading an article about her at the moment in a book I bought a few
years ago called Shiro to Onna, but which I hadn't got around to
reading before. One of the other women in this book, from the
bakumatsu period, is the mother of Yoshida Shoin. Can't wait to get to
know more about her too.

> Maybe I will send you something about Takasugi written by myself!

I'd love to read your thesis: maybe you could send it to me off-list as
an attachment some time. It's okay if it's in Italian as I can probably
read it. (Italian from many years ago, very rusty but still there
somewhere)

Cheers,

Gillian

Interesting!
I didn't know that Yoshida's mother did something worthy during her life..
can I ask you something? The book from where you take all those informations are only in japanese? I was able to find something interesting but nothing else...I mean something like the poems you help me to translate it is very hard to find!


Gillian Rubinstein <gillian@...> wrote:

> You will be thanked on the first page of my thesis! Not only you gave

me interesting books and web site where to find some stuff about
Takasugi, you also help me with the translation!

No problem. In fact the last question you raised was of great interest to
me as it introduced me to Nomura Motoni, about whom I knew
absolutely nothing, but now I am very interested in her and her life. I'm
reading an article about her at the moment in a book I bought a few
years ago called Shiro to Onna, but which I hadn't got around to
reading before. One of the other women in this book, from the
bakumatsu period, is the mother of Yoshida Shoin. Can't wait to get to
know more about her too.

> Maybe I will send you something about Takasugi written by myself!

I'd love to read your thesis: maybe you could send it to me off-list as
an attachment some time. It's okay if it's in Italian as I can probably
read it. (Italian from many years ago, very rusty but still there
somewhere)

Cheers,

Gillian




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear samuraihistory group. When i decided to enter this group it was so i coould learn about a subject i deeply love, i don't know a great deal so would somebody havethe generosity to start at the beginnig and help me...

Thank you!!!


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> I didn't know that Yoshida's mother did something worthy during her

life..

According to this piece Sugi Taki or Takiko (Yoshida's mother) had 7
children, of whom Shoin was the second son. The family were very
poor, partly due to a debt incurred by their grandfather, and became
"half farmers. half bushi". Taki worked endlessly on the farm and in
raising the children. After Shoin was imprisoned in Noyama jail in Hagi,
(1854 -55) she visited him with gifts of food, warm clothes etc. When
he was released and allowed to start the Shoka Sonjuku Taki looked
after the students, fed them, bought sake for them, and mended their
clothes. By all accounts, even though Shoin was adopted by the
Yoshida family at 4 years old (according to Craig) his relationship with
his birth family was always very close and loving. There is a moving
poem inscribed in his shrine in Hagi which reads in English:
"The concerns of parents for their children are deeper than those of
children for their parents.
How much will it grieve my parents to hear today's tidings."
(written just before his execution in Edo)

Despite her hard life Taki lived to the age of 84 and was famous for her
unassuming kindness.

> can I ask you something? The book from where you take all those

informations are only in japanese?

There's so much more material available in Japanese and it is written
from such a different viewpoint. This probably sounds like a truism but
it's worth emphasising, I think. My Japanese reading is very slow but I
persevere with it because I think it's so important. For sources in
English, there are far more in University libraries and academic papers
and journals than I have access to. I'm sure other people on this forum
can advise you where to look. But if you can read Japanese so much
more is available to you both on the web and in books.

gambatte kudasai:)

Gillian

Up to now I only have to write final considerations..so for this thesis the work is ended! But I am sure I would need your help and of the group!
So..thanks again and kimi mo ganbattene!
Daniele

Gillian Rubinstein <gillian@...> wrote:

>
> I didn't know that Yoshida's mother did something worthy during her

life..

According to this piece Sugi Taki or Takiko (Yoshida's mother) had 7
children, of whom Shoin was the second son. The family were very
poor, partly due to a debt incurred by their grandfather, and became
"half farmers. half bushi". Taki worked endlessly on the farm and in
raising the children. After Shoin was imprisoned in Noyama jail in Hagi,
(1854 -55) she visited him with gifts of food, warm clothes etc. When
he was released and allowed to start the Shoka Sonjuku Taki looked
after the students, fed them, bought sake for them, and mended their
clothes. By all accounts, even though Shoin was adopted by the
Yoshida family at 4 years old (according to Craig) his relationship with
his birth family was always very close and loving. There is a moving
poem inscribed in his shrine in Hagi which reads in English:
"The concerns of parents for their children are deeper than those of
children for their parents.
How much will it grieve my parents to hear today's tidings."
(written just before his execution in Edo)

Despite her hard life Taki lived to the age of 84 and was famous for her
unassuming kindness.

> can I ask you something? The book from where you take all those

informations are only in japanese?

There's so much more material available in Japanese and it is written
from such a different viewpoint. This probably sounds like a truism but
it's worth emphasising, I think. My Japanese reading is very slow but I
persevere with it because I think it's so important. For sources in
English, there are far more in University libraries and academic papers
and journals than I have access to. I'm sure other people on this forum
can advise you where to look. But if you can read Japanese so much
more is available to you both on the web and in books.

gambatte kudasai:)

Gillian




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Hi.

Why not start by reading some GASP! books? For example, read Samson's
"History of Japan" or read Farris's "Heavenly Warriors".