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Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

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#6256 [2004-12-13 11:57:20]

RE: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by geregjonesmuller

Notes to James and to Yami here:
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 07:51:19 -0800 (PST)
From: james wilson <johntwo8@...>
Subject: RE: Japan eras


*snip* HAHAHAHA its amazing how we can all be talking about swords and stuff
and my spelling some how becomes a topic. Hmm... ... GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
*snip*
James, this is not all that amazing. One of the ideals of the samurai was
_bunbu ichi_ (I've also seen that transliterated as _bunbu no ichi_, and if
any of you who're moderately fluent in Japanese can tell me which is more
correct, I'll be most grateful.) This has been translated as "pen and sword
in harmony."
You see, it is not enough to know how to swing a sword. Even if you regard
your blade with the deepest respect, even if you practise endlessly, that is
only a beginning. You must also attain some cultural accomplishments: to
be able to compose poetry, say, or to draw well. A samurai who couldn't
exhibit basic literacy would not have been well regarded in polite society.
Something for you to consider. When you're spelling your steel 'steal,' it
is a natural reaction for literate people to disregard or discount your
input. It's hard to take seriously the input of anyone who's a native
English speaker and still can't manage to express himself better than you
seem to be able to do.
Now I'm not saying this to insult you, but to suggest that you may want to
take even more care in improving your spelling and grammar skills. To
teach, you must first learn. And - since you mentioned being of African
descent - bear in mind that you're in a country that still has a vicious
tendency to regard you as somehow not as smart as some other guy whose only
virtue is that his skin is lighter than yours. (I don't think I'm telling
you anything you don't know already, but I want to be clear.) You're
fighting stereotype, and to do that you must excel in everything. They used
to say much the same of women: to earn half as much as a man, a woman has
to do twice as well... So I'm not talking about race here, but about
prejudice... and about feeding prejudice through any appearance of ignorance
or incompetency. Sure, your spelling is no worse than many folks I've seen
posting online... but your heredity and your choice of profession put you in
a spotlight that will, in many eyes, magnify every error you make. You may
well find - in fact, I profoundly hope you do find - that being able to
spell and punctuate may make the difference between being able to find
yourself a teaching job and being unable to find a school that wants
anything to do with you.
I encourage you to grow into your pride. Keep working on turning "some how"
into "somehow," "steal" into "steel" - the spell-checker won't catch those,
but you need to. And study the correct usage of apostrophes: you're really
weak on those. Our country needs good teachers, not more functional
illiterates.
May the gods bless you also. I call particularly on all deities who value
knowledge and literacy to smile upon you and lead you on in the ways of
truth.

Yami Murasaki <Yami_Bara@...> wrote:


*snip* The way you're saying thw sword is a part of
you. That's exactly how connected Samurai were with their swords. It's
wonderful someone else thinks that way! Now I don't feel so alone!
~Yami

Yami, for what it's worth, you are far from alone. Probably a third of my
students over the years have regarded their swords in something of this
light. And every serious sworder I've ever known , European and Oriental
stylists alike, has done so. I don't think you can practise for long (at
least not with any decent piece of steel) without coming to understand
something of the individual characters and distinctive personalities of
swords. It is not coincidence that so many swords, all over the world, have
been given names.
Gereg


>From: james wilson
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Japan eras
>Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hmm lets see I dont just feel my sword is just a piece of steal. I feel
>like its a part of me that needs attention just like a close realative. I
>believe that my sword is as strong as me and it can match my capabilities
>if need be. It may not be all that to any one else but it smells good and
>mackeral or wonderfull I view my swords as a lot more than just tools. GOD
>BLESS YOU ALL.
>
>peace
>

[Next #6264]

#6264 [2004-12-13 17:17:31]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by sengokudaimyo

Silk Road School wrote:

> James, this is not all that amazing. One of the ideals of the samurai was
> _bunbu ichi_ (I've also seen that transliterated as _bunbu no ichi_,

You shouldn't. That makes no sense in Japanese, where it is, strictly, "bunbu
ichi."

> This has been translated as "pen and sword
> in harmony."

That's as good as anything, I guess.

> You see, it is not enough to know how to swing a sword. Even if you regard
> your blade with the deepest respect, even if you practise endlessly, that is
> only a beginning. You must also attain some cultural accomplishments: to
> be able to compose poetry, say, or to draw well. A samurai who couldn't
> exhibit basic literacy would not have been well regarded in polite society.

Ah, but that's the whole point. "Bunbu ichi" was not a set rule. It was a
controversy. There were many houses that openly eschewed any appearance of the
"soft, poofy stuff" -- Some houses even maintained draconian punishments like
banishment or forced seppuku for those caught studying literature or playing
games or musical instruments; they deemed these pastimes as "unworthy" of the
warrior.

Other houses felt that, well, "bunbu ichi."



Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6256] [Next #6268]

#6268 [2004-12-13 17:19:10]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by ltdomer98

--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

Some houses even maintained
> draconian punishments like
> banishment or forced seppuku for those caught
> studying literature or playing
> games or musical instruments; they deemed these
> pastimes as "unworthy" of the
> warrior.
>
> Other houses felt that, well, "bunbu ichi."

Well! That can't be! All samurai were good and noble
and, and, and...their swords talked to them!

I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.



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[Previous #6264] [Next #6270]

#6270 [2004-12-13 18:19:37]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.

(Pssst. Mt. Fuji's a cardboard cutout.)


Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6268] [Next #6272]

#6272 [2004-12-13 17:37:29]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by ltdomer98

--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> > I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.
>
> (Pssst. Mt. Fuji's a cardboard cutout.)

Dang big one. The pictures I took yesterday looked SO
real, too...

(it's pretty cool to be shooting weapons on a range
with Mt Fuji directly to your right...)

Nate





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[Previous #6270] [Next #6274]

#6274 [2004-12-13 18:41:18]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:


> (it's pretty cool to be shooting weapons on a range
> with Mt Fuji directly to your right...)

Traverse right! Make your range...

One of the coolest things ever: The first two years I lived in Japan, I was in
Tokyo's far west suburbs, not too far from (Da)saitama. There was one stretch of
track on the Seibu-Ikebukuro Line that was elevated -- somewhere near Nerima, I
think. If you take the train at the right time in the late afternoon, you hit
the elevated section while the sun is going down behind Mt. Fuji. WAAAAAAY off
in the distance the sky is orange, with that distinctive silhouette on the
horizon. It was a view to live for.

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6272] [Next #6275]

#6275 [2004-12-13 17:55:40]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by ltdomer98

--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> It was a view to live for.
>
> Tony

We're going to Hakone for Christmas. I can't wait!




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[Previous #6274] [Next #6276]

#6276 [2004-12-13 18:53:33]

Re: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> We're going to Hakone for Christmas. I can't wait!

..... must.... not.... hate.... must.... aAAARRRrrrghhhHHH!


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6275] [Next #6286]

#6286 [2004-12-14 04:33:01]

Tony and Nate - puh-leeze!

by thomas_tessera

Enough with the sightseeing already!

Some of us have to settle to a map of Japan on the wall, and watch
the dust gathering on the pennies in the 'trip jar'.

Keep this up and I'll get all tengu on your tails!

Thomas
(sorry Tony - missed your later post, with which I deeply
sympathise!)

[Previous #6276] [Next #6287]

#6287 [2004-12-14 04:42:22]

Re: [samuraihistory] Tony and Nate - puh-leeze!

by ltdomer98

--- Thomas Davidson <tom.davidson@...> wrote:

> Enough with the sightseeing already!

So you're saying you DON'T want to see the pictures?

> Some of us have to settle to a map of Japan on the
> wall, and watch
> the dust gathering on the pennies in the 'trip jar'.

Hey--I did two years of penance in Hel--I mean Korea.





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#6288 [2004-12-14 05:30:22]

Re: Tony and Nate - puh-leeze!

by thomas_tessera

mmmnn-OKthen ... whatever ...

Sorry Nate - just mimicing my 14-year-old.

And yes, I am grudgingly looking forward to the pics.

And re your 'Traverse right ... target ... big thing with snow on
top' - here in the UK tank-crews, denied the splendour of Fuji's
snow-topped crest, have to settle to scattering the sheep on the
ranges on Salisbury Plain.

In his National Service days (50's) a neighbour of mine said an AP
round into the hillside usually did the trick. Until the day, of
course, there was an HE up the spout, apparently THAT worked a treat!

[Previous #6287] [Next #6294]

#6294 [2004-12-14 06:06:22]

RE: [samuraihistory] Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by johntwo8

Thank you. Before I could not understand your criticism but now I see things in a whole new light. That is of course what learning is about. And I am well knowledgeable of "bunbu". I was thought it was the twin ways of the pen and sword but that the same thing you are saying. However, I have already took these into consideration and since this issue of my spelling aroused when I spelled a Japanese word wrong it seemed you got picky. Not to start any thing but alot of people make spelling mistakes. But enough about that let me talk about culturalistic Japan some too. I loved Japan and lets see I have a bit I want to share. Hmm lets see how to aproach... when you guys train do you train first your how do you say external or internal. What I am saying is do any one here do any traing of the chi or Ki, for it a Japanese site. OK wait I know that if you train in external arts then you will be naturally strengthening your internal abilities but i guess you already see the question thank
you. We are the same in so much yet different in so many aspects. GOD BLESS ALL

peace





Notes to James and to Yami here:
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 07:51:19 -0800 (PST)
From: james wilson <johntwo8@...>
Subject: RE: Japan eras


*snip* HAHAHAHA its amazing how we can all be talking about swords and stuff
and my spelling some how becomes a topic. Hmm... ... GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
*snip*
James, this is not all that amazing. One of the ideals of the samurai was
_bunbu ichi_ (I've also seen that transliterated as _bunbu no ichi_, and if
any of you who're moderately fluent in Japanese can tell me which is more
correct, I'll be most grateful.) This has been translated as "pen and sword
in harmony."
You see, it is not enough to know how to swing a sword. Even if you regard
your blade with the deepest respect, even if you practise endlessly, that is
only a beginning. You must also attain some cultural accomplishments: to
be able to compose poetry, say, or to draw well. A samurai who couldn't
exhibit basic literacy would not have been well regarded in polite society.
Something for you to consider. When you're spelling your steel 'steal,' it
is a natural reaction for literate people to disregard or discount your
input. It's hard to take seriously the input of anyone who's a native
English speaker and still can't manage to express himself better than you
seem to be able to do.
Now I'm not saying this to insult you, but to suggest that you may want to
take even more care in improving your spelling and grammar skills. To
teach, you must first learn. And - since you mentioned being of African
descent - bear in mind that you're in a country that still has a vicious
tendency to regard you as somehow not as smart as some other guy whose only
virtue is that his skin is lighter than yours. (I don't think I'm telling
you anything you don't know already, but I want to be clear.) You're
fighting stereotype, and to do that you must excel in everything. They used
to say much the same of women: to earn half as much as a man, a woman has
to do twice as well... So I'm not talking about race here, but about
prejudice... and about feeding prejudice through any appearance of ignorance
or incompetency. Sure, your spelling is no worse than many folks I've seen
posting online... but your heredity and your choice of profession put you in
a spotlight that will, in many eyes, magnify every error you make. You may
well find - in fact, I profoundly hope you do find - that being able to
spell and punctuate may make the difference between being able to find
yourself a teaching job and being unable to find a school that wants
anything to do with you.
I encourage you to grow into your pride. Keep working on turning "some how"
into "somehow," "steal" into "steel" - the spell-checker won't catch those,
but you need to. And study the correct usage of apostrophes: you're really
weak on those. Our country needs good teachers, not more functional
illiterates.
May the gods bless you also. I call particularly on all deities who value
knowledge and literacy to smile upon you and lead you on in the ways of
truth.

Yami Murasaki <Yami_Bara@...> wrote:


*snip* The way you're saying thw sword is a part of
you. That's exactly how connected Samurai were with their swords. It's
wonderful someone else thinks that way! Now I don't feel so alone!
~Yami

Yami, for what it's worth, you are far from alone. Probably a third of my
students over the years have regarded their swords in something of this
light. And every serious sworder I've ever known , European and Oriental
stylists alike, has done so. I don't think you can practise for long (at
least not with any decent piece of steel) without coming to understand
something of the individual characters and distinctive personalities of
swords. It is not coincidence that so many swords, all over the world, have
been given names.
Gereg


>From: james wilson
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Japan eras
>Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hmm lets see I dont just feel my sword is just a piece of steal. I feel
>like its a part of me that needs attention just like a close realative. I
>believe that my sword is as strong as me and it can match my capabilities
>if need be. It may not be all that to any one else but it smells good and
>mackeral or wonderfull I view my swords as a lot more than just tools. GOD
>BLESS YOU ALL.
>
>peace
>







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#6299 [2004-12-14 08:54:09]

Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi

by klancesegall

Hey... I've been there.
(Just rubbing it in on Tony, don't mind me...)

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
> --- Anthony Bryant wrote:
>
> > It was a view to live for.
> >
> > Tony
>
> We're going to Hakone for Christmas. I can't wait!
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
> http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

[Previous #6294] [Next #6305]

#6305 [2004-12-14 15:00:15]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Tony and Nate - puh-leeze!

by ltdomer98

--- Thomas Davidson <tom.davidson@...> wrote:


Here in the UK tank-crews, denied the
> splendour of Fuji's
> snow-topped crest, have to settle to scattering the
> sheep on the
> ranges on Salisbury Plain.

In Kentucky it was deer. Saw one take a sabot round
once--it was pretty messy.

In Korea, it was little kids. I had a friend up in the
tower controlling when someone said "what's that" as
they looked through the camera--some 5 year old kid is
wandering down range, picking up the aluminum from the
sabot petals to recycle...








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