History/Shotokan Re: [samuraihistory] new subject

Actually, Mr. Berryman, each generation of masters since Funakoshi-sensei has altered some of the Shotokan techniques and kata.
Shotokan is modern in the historical sense, but perhaps you are young, and four or five generations feels like a great deal of time.

I do appreciate your enthusiasm and ardor on the subject, but perhaps you might want to read more than one or two books to form your
opinions. Especially so since you argue with some people who have spent their lives studying things Japanese. I would suggest some
history, rather than those with a martial arts focus.

Your skin might want to get less sensitive as well; you're quite twitchy and reactive. I wouldn't trust you around me with neither
bokken nor blade. Do calm down, sir. You have nothing to prove, and by professing to know much, you prevent yourself from further
learning.

Good day,

Lizzie

----- Original Message -----
From: luke berryman
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] new subject



Yes I do know that Karate began before this. But what I am saying is that master Funakoshi's style is derived directly from the old
ways of Okinawa. Just because JKA was formed in the 20th century does not mean that it has lost the old ways.





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When the Japanese formed their modern army and navy in the late 1800s they
initially adopted Western type swords along with Western style uniforms. At
some point in the early 1900s, however, they changed to samurai-type
swords. Does anyone know when this took place?

Will O'Neil

WOW Miss Chase for new President of samuraihistory forum. GOD BLESS all and go vote

Elizabeth Chase wrote:Actually, Mr. Berryman, each generation of masters since Funakoshi-sensei has altered some of the Shotokan techniques and kata.
Shotokan is modern in the historical sense, but perhaps you are young, and four or five generations feels like a great deal of time.

I do appreciate your enthusiasm and ardor on the subject, but perhaps you might want to read more than one or two books to form your
opinions. Especially so since you argue with some people who have spent their lives studying things Japanese. I would suggest some
history, rather than those with a martial arts focus.

Your skin might want to get less sensitive as well; you're quite twitchy and reactive. I wouldn't trust you around me with neither
bokken nor blade. Do calm down, sir. You have nothing to prove, and by professing to know much, you prevent yourself from further
learning.

Good day,

Lizzie

----- Original Message -----
From: luke berryman
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] new subject



Yes I do know that Karate began before this. But what I am saying is that master Funakoshi's style is derived directly from the old
ways of Okinawa. Just because JKA was formed in the 20th century does not mean that it has lost the old ways.





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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Will
The army Shin-gunto was introduced 1933-34 and generally replaced the
Kyu-gunto or European style of sword, however, the Kyu-gunto continued to be
used by some, probably higher ranking individuals, right up to the
surrender of 1945. At about the same time the naval Kai-gunto was
introduced. (see Fuller and Gregory Military Swords pf Japan 1868-1945).
Hope this is of some help.
Clive Sinclaire

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will O'Neil" <w.d.oneil@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Change in Japanese Army & Navy swords


>
> When the Japanese formed their modern army and navy in the late 1800s they
> initially adopted Western type swords along with Western style uniforms.
At
> some point in the early 1900s, however, they changed to samurai-type
> swords. Does anyone know when this took place?
>
> Will O'Neil
>
>
>
>
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> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

At 12:33 PM 12/4/2004, Clive Sinclaire wrote:

>Will
>The army Shin-gunto was introduced 1933-34 and generally replaced the
>Kyu-gunto or European style of sword, however, the Kyu-gunto continued to be
>used by some, probably higher ranking individuals, right up to the
>surrender of 1945. At about the same time the naval Kai-gunto was
>introduced. (see Fuller and Gregory Military Swords pf Japan 1868-1945).
>Hope this is of some help.
>Clive Sinclaire

Clive,

Exactly what I was looking for -- thanks very much. I'm writing a review of
a book (Haruo Tohmatsu and H[edley] P[aul] Willmott, _A Gathering Darkness:
The Coming of War to the Far East and the Pacific, 1921-1942_, Total War:
New Perspectives on World War II, edited by Michael A. Barnhart and H. P.
Willmott, Lanham, Maryland: SR Books, 2004) in which the claim is made that
the changeover occurred in 1936. It matters because they are taking it as a
marker for a shift in orientation. I was sure that 1936 was too late and
it's nice to know the facts.

Will