>"the fake Japanese weapons used by cartoon turtles in a badly researched
American kiddie excuse for Japanese cultural stuff."
A couple of notes on this dialogue - first (to be fair), the original TMNT
was a loving one-shot satire of Frank Miller's Daredevil comic, heavily
influenced in turn by Kozure Okami (Lone Wolf and Cub). What grew out of
that single-issue in-joke can be seen as a kind of huge marketing joke in
and of itself, but as a satire of American youth and media fads (i.e. the
martial arts film craze, teen teams in comics, funny animal comics, anime
and manga influence, etc.), the original was pretty amusing. Not great
literature; certainly not on a par with Kozure Okami, as far as graphic
storytelling goes; but amusing all the same.
That aside, this comment sounds like something I'd say. That's some quality
ranting there. (And I do mean that as a compliment.)
On a more serious note:
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:39:11 -0000
From: "zevlord" <
LordZev@...>
Subject: Re: Weapons of Ninjas
(snip) ... they are not Ninja weapons, in actual fact they were
originally farming implements that was used to plant seeds. Now I
don't know when but they got extended for battle and instead of
carrying two they actually carried THREE one in each hand and one
tucked into their belt. When entering battle they would run towards
there enemies throwing one of the sai's at the enemy then drew the
third one ready for combat. (snip)
This comment about the agricultural derivation of the sai is one I've heard
before. And back in the '70s, I remember my teacher telling me about the
practise of carrying a third sai for throwing (Draeger & Smith's
_Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts_ also corroborates this.). But I have
also heard (and this seems more credible to me) that the sai were originally
Okinawan hay-hooks, that the worker would stick one sai into each end of a
(small) bale and walk away with these as handles. In terms of design, they
seem better suited to this than to planting, as the side tines would serve
to stabilise the bale, while I can't think what use they are in planting.
Anyone have any sources to cite on this question? Oral tradition on this
continent is something I have learned to regard with great suspicion, as
I've found plenty of bad information being passed along in good faith by
folks who honestly believed what they were saying. So Zev, please don't
take this as a challenge of your integrity, as that's not my intention at
all. But I would like to nail down the facts if I can.
Apparently (according to Draeger & Smith again) a weapon of this design has
been in use under various names for over 1500 years, everywhere from India
to Okinawa, and observes, "Evidence exists which favours Indonesia as the
place of origin. ...Ancient Indonesian civilizations on Sumatra and Java,
which had contact with Okinawa, used the weapon in their combat systems."
If this is so (and Draeger tends to be reliable), then it may never have had
an agricultural application at all: any stories of that sort could
conceivably have been 'cover stories' devised during such times as the
carrying of weapons was illegal. ("This, officer? Nah, this ain't a
weapon. This is a, uh, hay hook. Yeah, a hay hook. Got a couple of 'em.
And, um a spare. In case one gets, y'know, broken. Or something.") This
is pure speculation on my part, so I'd be very interested in more solid
information.
Draeger & Smith also note that the weapon "never became popular in Japan
and is almost completely divorced from Japanese combat systems; it is only
seen in those karate systems that have an Okinawan tradition." So as far as
the ninja and sai go, I guess we do have to blame those pesky adolescent
terrapins. And that, in turn, goes back to Frank Miller putting sai in the
hands of Daredevil's girlfriend Elektra... although her fingers were always
positioned wrong... which may take us back to that 'badly researched
American excuse' business again. Come to think of it, he could never draw
the tip of a katana right either.
Admittedly, kobujutsu is a bit of a digression from samurai history. But
as far as that goes, does anyone have any information on whether individual
samurai are likely to have trained in any of the kobu weapons?
Gereg