Hello to the Group

Hello!

I've recently signed up with the group, and after lurking for a
couple of days, I wanted to say Hi.

I have recently been on the hunt for a place where sensible,
informed discussion can take place. Most of the news groups and
web-based discussion boards that discuss "Japan" are hopeless.
They basically seem to be structured flame wars. The few fj.
newsgroups that deal with history tend to focus on discussions of more
recent history. So I'm really happy to have stumbled upon this mailing
list. I actually found it by visiting the home page of samurai-archiv
es.com - which I normally don't do, because I usually hit particular p
ages via web searches.

I am an amateur student of Japanese history. That is to say I don't
have any particular expertise or academic qualifications on the
subject - and it also means I have a day job. :)

My interest within Japanese history are pretty wide. I've been
interested in the late-Bakufu/Meiji Restoration period and the Heian
Period. Mostly political and military history. These days my focus
is on the Sengoku Jidai. Particularly I've become fascinated with Oda
Nobunaga.

I look forward to asking lots of questions on the forum. Maybe
once in a while I'll be able to answer one, too.

Thanks and よろしくお願いします。

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

Jay,

Welcome to our group.I'm glad we have another member in our group.We've discussed about Oda Nobunaga not very long time ago.So,check the forum if you want to find out more.

Best wishes,
Edy

----- Original Message -----
From: Oyakata
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 6:32 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Hello to the Group


Hello!

I've recently signed up with the group, and after lurking for a
couple of days, I wanted to say Hi.

I have recently been on the hunt for a place where sensible,
informed discussion can take place. Most of the news groups and
web-based discussion boards that discuss "Japan" are hopeless.
They basically seem to be structured flame wars. The few fj.
newsgroups that deal with history tend to focus on discussions of more
recent history. So I'm really happy to have stumbled upon this mailing
list. I actually found it by visiting the home page of samurai-archiv
es.com - which I normally don't do, because I usually hit particular p
ages via web searches.

I am an amateur student of Japanese history. That is to say I don't
have any particular expertise or academic qualifications on the
subject - and it also means I have a day job. :)

My interest within Japanese history are pretty wide. I've been
interested in the late-Bakufu/Meiji Restoration period and the Heian
Period. Mostly political and military history. These days my focus
is on the Sengoku Jidai. Particularly I've become fascinated with Oda
Nobunaga.

I look forward to asking lots of questions on the forum. Maybe
once in a while I'll be able to answer one, too.

Thanks and よろしくお願いします。

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello back!
and you are welcome. Is there an Oda Nobunaga dot com website or is
that just an address?
Tom
"Tobaku Tobaku Mata Tobaku!"

Edward Alexanderさんの<000c01c41ae7$53f2b8c0$4664a8c0@P428>から

>Jay,
>
>Welcome to our group.I'm glad we have another member in our group.We've
>discussed about Oda Nobunaga not very long time ago.So,check the forum if you
>want to find out more.
>

Thanks for the welcome! I will indeed spend some time looking through
the archives at the Yahoo site.

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

That's an interesting site you have on Nobunaga, and an attractive
layout. My next project for the Genealogy section of the Samurai
Archives is the Oda genealogy, although as it stands I only have from
Oda Nobuhide on down (his 10 children and thier decendants). If
you're interested in this info, let me know.

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:00:53 -0700, Tom Helmさん wrote in message <78C4C1F0-875D-11D8-9559-000393B56BC0@...>

>Hello back!
> and you are welcome. Is there an Oda Nobunaga dot com website or is
>that just an address?

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the welcome!

There is a website, or rather I could say there is the beginnings of
what might eventually pass for a website some day in the distant
future. :)

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" listowner@s...> wrote:

> That's an interesting site you have on Nobunaga, and an attractive
> layout. My next project for the Genealogy section of the Samurai
> Archives is the Oda genealogy, although as it stands I only have

from

> Oda Nobuhide on down (his 10 children and thier decendants). If
> you're interested in this info, let me know.

Hello - and thanks for the kind words about the website. It's very
amateurish but it's alot of fun for me to work on.

I would indeed be very interested in seeing the info you have on
Nobuhide on down! For now I've been focusing on the other direction.
As you know, on my site I've got some narrative about the early
history of the Oda family, up to about 1400. I am now gathering
information on the 4-5 generations before Nobunaga (from about 1400
onwards).

It's interesting to see that Nobunaga's branch of the family was so
minor that reliable (independant) records of his direct line are very
sketchy until you get to Nobuhide. In fact it appears the one cannot
go much further back than Nobunaga's own great-grandfather, Sukenobu
(Toshisada as the great-grandfather appears to be incorrect and may
be part of the false family history created by Nobunaga).

Just out of curiousity have you put Nobunaga as the 2nd or third
child? Accounts do differ alot.

Of course I didn't keep track of the birth order on my genealogy
software....! but here are the blood relations of Oda Nobunaga. I
have where the actually fit in (who is the child of who, who married
who, etc.) but this view is more interesting - it is copied directly
from the genealogy software printout, so the formatting might end up
a bit wierd:

Last Name First Name Birth Date Death Date
===============================================
Father -
Oda Nobuhide

Brother -
Oda Hidenari 1574
Oda Nagamasu 1547 1621
Oda Nagatoshi 1582
Oda Nobuhiro
Oda Nobukane 1543 1614
Oda Nobuoki 21 Nov 1570
Oda Nobuyuki

Sister -
Oda Oichi
Oda Okatsu

Son -
Oda Hidekatsu 1567
Oda Katsunaga 1582
Oda Nagatsugu
Oda Nobukatsu 1558 30 Apr 1630
Oda Nobuo 1558 1630
Oda Nobutada 1557 1582
Oda Nobutaka 1558 1583
Oda Nobutaka 1602

Daughter -
Oda Fuyuhime
Oda Gyokusen-in abt 1573 24 Feb 1623
Oda Hideko 1632
Oda Tokuhime 1559 1636
Oda Touyama-Bunin

Grandson -
Gamou Hideyuki 1583 1612
Maeda Toshitsune 1593 1658
Oda Hidenobu 1581 1602
Oda Hidenori 1581 27 Oct 1625
Oda Hideo 1573 1610
Oda Nobuyoshi 1626
Oda Takanaga
Takeda Nobukatsu 1567 1582

Granddaughter -
Maeda Matsu
Tokugawa (Lady) 1577 25 Jun 1626

G Grandson -
Gamou Tadamoto 1605 1634
Gamou Tadasato 1603 1627
Honda Tadatoki 1596 1626
Maeda Mitsutaka
Maeda Toshiharu
Maeda Toshitsugu

G Granddaughter -
Gamou (Lady)

Nephew -
Asai Manpukumaru
Oda Nagamasa
Oda Nagataka 5 Jul 1606
Oda Nobushige
Oda Nobuzumi 1582

Niece -
Yodo
Asai Hatsu
Asai Oeyo

Grandnephew -
Tokugawa Iemitsu
Tokugawa Tadanaga
Toyotomi Hideyori

Grandniece -
Tokugawa Kazuko
Tokugawa (Lady)
Tokugawa (Lady)
Tokugawa Ne-hime 1599 3 Jul 1622
Tokugawa Senhime 1597 1666

G Grandnephew -
Tokugawa Ietsuna
Tokugawa Tsunashige 1644 1678
Tokugawa Tsunayoshi

GG Grandnephew -
Tokugawa Ienobu

GGG Grandnephew -
Tokugawa Ietsugu






--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "jckelly108"
wrote:

> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" > listowner@s...> wrote:
> > That's an interesting site you have on Nobunaga, and an

attractive

> > layout. My next project for the Genealogy section of the Samurai
> > Archives is the Oda genealogy, although as it stands I only have
> from
> > Oda Nobuhide on down (his 10 children and thier decendants). If
> > you're interested in this info, let me know.
>
> Hello - and thanks for the kind words about the website. It's very
> amateurish but it's alot of fun for me to work on.
>
> I would indeed be very interested in seeing the info you have on
> Nobuhide on down! For now I've been focusing on the other

direction.

> As you know, on my site I've got some narrative about the early
> history of the Oda family, up to about 1400. I am now gathering
> information on the 4-5 generations before Nobunaga (from about 1400
> onwards).
>
> It's interesting to see that Nobunaga's branch of the family was so
> minor that reliable (independant) records of his direct line are

very

> sketchy until you get to Nobuhide. In fact it appears the one

cannot

> go much further back than Nobunaga's own great-grandfather,

Sukenobu

> (Toshisada as the great-grandfather appears to be incorrect and may
> be part of the false family history created by Nobunaga).
>
> Just out of curiousity have you put Nobunaga as the 2nd or third
> child? Accounts do differ alot.

Thanks for this information - very nice!

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:18:21 -0000, Kitsunoさん wrote in message <c502ut+6lul@...>

>Of course I didn't keep track of the birth order on my genealogy
>software....! but here are the blood relations of Oda Nobunaga. I

Haha - no that's ok. Actually I wasn't clear. What I meant is, in
most accounts we see that Nobuhiro is the oldest son which
makes Nobunaga the second son (but first son of Nobuhide's
official wife or "seishitsu" 正室. But some verbal accounts add a
mystery son, which makes Nobunaga the third son.

So I wasn't really asking about the order per se, but about the
number of sons.

My guess is that this is based on the fact that Nobunga took the name
Saburo Nobunaga, which implies he was the third son. But I lean
towards thinking that there was no mystery older brother (or perhaps
he died in childbirth or very young).

Thanks again!

>have where the actually fit in (who is the child of who, who married
>who, etc.) but this view is more interesting - it is copied directly
>from the genealogy software printout, so the formatting might end up
>a bit wierd:
>
>Last Name First Name Birth Date Death Date
>===============================================
>Father -
>Oda Nobuhide
>
>Brother -
>Oda Hidenari 1574
>Oda Nagamasu 1547 1621
>Oda Nagatoshi 1582
>Oda Nobuhiro
>Oda Nobukane 1543 1614
>Oda Nobuoki 21 Nov 1570
>Oda Nobuyuki
>
>Sister -
>Oda Oichi
>Oda Okatsu
>

--
Jay Kelly
oyakata@...