Re: Wearing White for Seppuku (and the "popular imagination".)

This is not too surprising to hear that the questioned outfit is a kabuki
one. Popular imagination (in this case based on the traditional kabuki
portrayals) often proves to be a far greater motivator than historical fact. A great
deal of "true historical knowledge" owes it's existence to the fact that less
accurate but popular tales of an event or person were circulated and kept
interest in the subject alive long enough for it motivate someone into "discovering"
the real story.

And the Shinsengumi would tend to prove that these popular if false beliefs
often have greater impact on later historical events than the real historical
facts of a case do. Kondo, Hijikata, Serizawa and others formed their original
ideas on their perceptions of the 47 ronin rather than the "historical truth".
These perceptions were later the catalyst for rules, etc. within the group.

What it boils down to is "historical fact" and "popular imagination" are
dependant on one another. Sure, you can study "just the facts" and that will tell
you exactly -what- happened, but it's a very dry understanding of history.
Often it is only by taking a look at the "popular opinion" of events can you
begin to understand -why- they happened the way they did.

Perhaps another way to term "popular imagination" is "fandom". It was the
"fandom" generated by a popular book called "Moeyo Ken" that is responsible for
much of the "academic" study of the Shinsengumi today. There are people who
have dedicated their entire -lives- to the study of the Miburo simply because
they were "fans" of this story. If not for the book, it is entirely possible that
the group would have been completely forgotten by history.

And a great many of us here were motivated to learn more about the
"historical truth" behind the Shinsengumi because we were "fans" first. If not for the
popular but often false images of the Shinsengumi shown in anime and movies,
how many of us would care so much about the group today? How many of us would
have ever heard of them if the only place they were ever mentioned were in the
dusty books of scholars and professors?

Though it may be "inaccurate", I feel that the imagined image of Saito in a
plain black outfit saying "Surrender now Battousai" is far less appealing than
the shown RK image of him in blue and white saying "Aku Soku Zan".

-MissB


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If history isn't welcome here, then kindly say so.

--Masayoshi

Hehee ^^;;;

It's not that history isn't welcomed here. If that were true then many of us would completely ignore this site and group as just another random place. The thing I think that Miss B. was trying to say was that nonhistorical things and people's imaginations also contributed alot to what we come to know today.

In the case of the Shinsengumi, all manga, anime, and movies have based their stories on real life events and each have interpurted the happenings in some what diffrent ways from one to the next. I.E. RK and PMK have two totally diffrent Saitous envisioned by two completely diffrent people (how boring would it be if they were both the exact same?).

Anyways, getting back to the history that we're sharing here. It is important to know it and share it amoungst ourselves. If we didn't correct one another and put in our own two cents of what we know, many of us would still believe things like Okita passing out during the Ikedaya raid and other stuff you find on the internet that isn't correctly translated/interperted. Personaly, thats the only reason I joined this group... to try and find out what the truth is.

-Gladys
a.k.a.Bunneh



Hirotada Tokugawa <patriot014@...> wrote:
If history isn't welcome here, then kindly say so.

--Masayoshi


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...And I hardly consider myself to be a student of dry as dust
history. These things might have been historically inaccurate, but
here we have an opportunity, as I am so desperate to find, to see that
historical figures are just as human and real as us. In this case, we
see Shinsengumi as 47 ronin fanboys. After all, by Nagakura's
recollection they started out with just 13, so they needed something
to inspire them. And being from peasant backgrounds, they would have
seen the kabuki, which samurai born as samurai were discouraged to
attend. Hence the reason for their choices.

As Miyamoto Musashi said, one must "study the Ways of all
professions." We must appreciate all perspectives, in order to, as
Leopold von Ranke said in his great work of historiography, to "show
things (as close to) as they were"

--M.

M, in NO place in my statement did I say "history is unwelcome" on the list.
It was ONLY a statement about why the "popular image" of a group or person is
often as important as the true facts. NO ONE ATTACKED YOU. Please stop
misquoting and implying things about others on the list.

I would also kindly request that you respect -MY- opinons about history since
you claim to consider other people's perspectives to be as important as your
own.

-MissB


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Bunny girl? Where art thou? :D



K.







"Beautiful boys are medicinal. They should be taken like penicillin: twice a day or until the ailment is gone... unless, of course, you have a lingering virus."

~Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone


Kaneyoshi
http://www.livejournal.com/~kaneyoshi


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For the record, the message in question was sent immediately upon
waking up. No insult intended, simply a byproduct of scholarly pressure.

My apologies.

I'll get back to work.

-M.