TRANSLATION of Saitou stuff on www.toshizo.com/name

Saitou Hajime
(from www.toshizo.com/name, translated by Shimazu Masayoshi, June 15,
2004. Note: some missing information added)

--Born in Tenpo 15 (1844), 1st day (or 2nd day) of the 1st month. Died
Taisho 4 (1915), September 28, at age 71.
--Hometown: Edo, Musashi Province (now Tokyo).
--Style: Itto-ryu
--Original name: Yamaguchi Hajime. Other names: Yamaguchi Jirou,
Ichinohe Denpachi, Fujita Gorou.
--Born into the house of a Shogunal retainer.
--Father: Yuusuke. Brother: Hiroaki. Sister: O-Katsu (married Soma
Yoshiaki, chief physician of the Mito Tokugawa clan).
--Family was from Akashi, because his father was an ashigaru (low-rank
foot soldier samurai) of the Akashi han.
--Hajime's father, entrusting family affairs to his younger sister,
went to serve in Edo, earning a small sum and buying stocks for the
family with it.
--In Ansei 5 (1858), Hajime had his genpuku (coming of age ceremony).
After this, he studied Itto-ryu swordsmanship in the dojo at the Aizu
clan's Edo mansion (despite the many branches of Itto-ryu, Aizu
retainers studied Mizoguchi-ha Itto ryu). This kindness of the Aizu
clan was brought about by Hajime's father's service in Edo (comment:
kindness of teaching Itto-ryu to an incredibly low-ranking samurai's
son, I suppose).
--At 19, he mistakenly killed a man and was forced to flee from Edo to
Kyoto.
--In Kyoto, he became an assistant instructor (Shihan dai) in
Yoshida's Taishi Ryu dojo (probably Yoshida Katsumi of the Shotoku
Taishi Ryu). After this, in Bunkyu 3 (1863), he met up with his old
friend Kondou (Isami), who had just arrived in Kyoto with the
Roushitai. Before long, Saitou had entered the Shinsengumi.
--A very mysterious fellow. Conducted internal spying on possible
enemy operatives (i.e. the Itou case), as well as monitoring other
intelligence and possible enemy activity.
--After the collapse of the Shinsengumi, he stayed for awhile in Aizu,
and it's thought that he was with childhood friends there (from his
days at the Itto-ryu dojo). After the "Restoration", he worked in the
Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department, and lived the rest of his life
under the name Fujita Gorou.


Stuff about Saitou (original—Hajime-san Are-kore- literally
"Hajime-san this and that")
--Was not a man predisposed to small talk.
-- According to the testimony of those who knew him, Saitou was tall,
and his eyebrows served to accentuate his direct, clear, piercing gaze
(comment: the "light shone from his eyes" line). Throughout his life,
he was rather husky, but later on in life, he put on some weight. As
for the remaining portrait of him, his eldest son served as the model.
It's said that a real photo of him exists in the Shinsengumi
Houmotsukan (comment: `Shinsengumi Treasure House'. No idea where this
is, but it's probably the picture that was in the lower area of the
photo of the display with his haori in it).
--The character of "Saitou" in the manga "Rurouni Kenshin" is
tremendously different from the real Saitou Hajime. Unfortunately,
many many people think that they are one and the same. This is unfair,
and the real Saitou deserves to be known more.
--There is word that he was left-handed.
--It's said that in swordsmanship, he was one of the strongest of the
Shinsengumi, on par with Okita himself.
--He went with Itou's splinter group as a spy for Kondou and
Hijikata, although there is no evidence to this end (comment: huh?). A
surviving aide of Itou said "Saitou himself stole money in order to
support a woman." He believed this even after the Restoraton.
--Also, after the Restoration, he was known for washing and changing
his underwear (known in the Bakumatsu as a fundoshi) every day,
washing it thoroughly and striking it with both hands to get the
wrinkles out and hanging it with a pin.
--Whenever he sat, he would sit straight up in seiza position, always
keeping aware, so that if attacked he could react instantly.
--In his later years, he was quiet as always. However, he would
sometimes drink sake with his brother in law Morinosuke, as well as
Yamakawa Hiroshi, and would indignantly lament the evils of the times
(comment: Like Hiko Seijuurou in the Rurouni Kenshin OAV: "They are
afflicted—the times, and the mind of man…")
--The name "Fujita Gorou" was granted by Lord Matsudaira Katamori. As
a result, it was very very important to Saitou.
--Married Tokio, the eldest daughter of Aizu retainer Takagi
Kojuurou, in the 7th year of Meiji (1874). At this time, Fujita
(Saitou) was 31, and Tokio was 2 years younger than him.
--In Meiji 7 (1874), Saitou married Tokio, the eldest daughter of
Aizu retainer Takagi Kojuurou. At this time, Fujita (Saitou) was 31,
and Tokio was 2 years younger than him. The lesser go-betweens in the
marriage deal were Yamakawa Hiroshi and Sagawa Kanbee (Aizu chief
retainer), and the main go-between was Lord Matsudaira Katamori himself.
--Children—His eldest son, Tsutomu, was born in Meiji 9 (1876).
Extant records show that Tsutomu's godfather was Yamakawa Hiroshi.
Second son was Tsuyoshi, who spent many years abroad. Tsuyoshi's wife,
Yuki, was the granddaughter of Tanaka Tosa. The third son, Tatsuo, was
adopted from the Numazawa family, who were relatives of Tokio's mother.
--While Saitou was in Aomori (comment: specifically, in the Shimokita
Peninsula), before having married Tokio, he married a woman named
Yaso, who was 4 years older than him.
--At the Battle of Aizu, Yamamoto Yaeko (sister of Yamamoto Kakuma,
and later, the wife of Niishima Jo (famous Japanese Christian and
founder of Doshisha University)) left with Saitou for the front. Yaeko
used a rifle, and outdid everyone in "masculine braveness" (?),
fighting side by side with the men. She tried cutting off her hair
with her wakizashi (short sword), but (comment: a little weird after
this. Not quite sure what's going on) it is said that "Takagi
Morinosuke's elder sister Tokio cut her (Yaeko's) hair".
--Around Meiji 23 (1890), Saitou was serving as a police inspector in
Azabu (an area in modern Tokyo). There is also record remaining that
he participated in Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department sword
competitions.
--Later in life, Fujita (Saitou) and Tokio served together at Tokyo's
Joushi Takashi (Women's High School, now Ochanomizu University
(comment: not sure about the name)). When the school day would be out,
he would be in charge of traffic control for rickshaws. He was also in
charge of finances and general affairs.
--His favorite sword was the Settsu Juu Ikeda Kishinmaru Kunishige
(comment: Not sure about the name). Length—2 shaku, 3 sun, 1 bu

Thank you Masayoshi!!!!

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Shimazu Masayoshi" wrote:
This kindness of the Aizu
> clan was brought about by Hajime's father's service in Edo (comment:
> kindness of teaching Itto-ryu to an incredibly low-ranking samurai's
> son, I suppose).

***this is probably one of many reasons why he was so loyal to Aizu

Throughout his life,
> he was rather husky, but later on in life, he put on some weight.

***this is weird...he seems to be of medium build in the group
picture...for new folks please see the image here
http://www.3-hajime.com/syouzou2.html

> It's said that a real photo of him exists in the Shinsengumi
> Houmotsukan (comment: `Shinsengumi Treasure House'. No idea where this
> is, but it's probably the picture that was in the lower area of the
> photo of the display with his haori in it).

***Masayoshi is referring to this pic here...we're assuming this is
the pic in question
http://1happyturtle.com/makoto/SH5.jpg
zoomed....http://1happyturtle.com/makoto/SH5zoomjpg.jpg

> --The character of "Saitou" in the manga "Rurouni Kenshin" is
> tremendously different from the real Saitou Hajime.

***see if people feel this way then they should explain ^_^ I would
like to know the differences too (yes but I'll always be an RK Saitou fan)

> --He went with Itou's splinter group as a spy for Kondou and
> Hijikata, although there is no evidence to this end (comment: huh?). A
> surviving aide of Itou said "Saitou himself stole money in order to
> support a woman." He believed this even after the Restoraton.

***you know I read somewhere on a Japanese site (not
3-hajime/1to5.net) that he "acting like a husband" to a woman or some
weird babelfish phrase...perhaps this is what Toshizo.com is referring
to...

> --Whenever he sat, he would sit straight up in seiza position,
always keeping aware, so that if attacked he could react instantly.

***yeah, but some people sit seiza with their big toes
crossed...sitting seiza allows you to kind of hop up fast to defend
yourself versus getting up from sitting in a cross-legged
position...geez he was like this even amongst friends/family (old
habits are hard to break I guess)

--While Saitou was in Aomori (comment: specifically, in the Shimokita
> Peninsula), before having married Tokio, he married a woman named
> Yaso, who was 4 years older than him.

***nothing about the "unpleasant" stuff huh?

> --At the Battle of Aizu, Yamamoto Yaeko (sister of Yamamoto
Kakuma,and later, the wife of Niishima Jo (famous Japanese Christian
and founder of Doshisha University)) left with Saitou for the front.
Yaeko used a rifle, and outdid everyone in "masculine braveness" (?),
> fighting side by side with the men. She tried cutting off her hair
> with her wakizashi (short sword), but (comment: a little weird after
> this. Not quite sure what's going on) it is said that "Takagi
> Morinosuke's elder sister Tokio cut her (Yaeko's) hair".

***can you clarify this point Yamamoto Yaeko was the wife of Niishima
Jo? So she survived the battles ^_^...interesting...Fujita Goro could
on his rare occasions speak about the battles at Aizu to Tokio and
mention Yamamoto Yaeko and I imagine Tokio saying "wait...I know her I
cut her hair that day!" M. I think you just unleashed a new wave of
fanfiction

AH! So the translator DID chose the wrong word when it was translating the part about his first wife!!! I suspected it might have, but I had not way of knowing for sure. So Saito was husky?! Well, that is COMPLETELY different than the picture RK paints of him, isn't it?! The part about Kondo being his "old friend" is interesting. Thanks for clearing that up M!

-MissBehavin (Thinks the slogan for Babelfish and other translators ought to be: History for the insane!)

New members please don't forget to look at the files/photos/database
at our original list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miburo/

M, you know I completely forgot that several months ago you found pics
of Yamamoto Yaeko and uploaded them to the miburo list...I put both
pics side by side...so she is ~the~ woman who oudid men in "masculine
braveness?" LOL!
http://1happyturtle.com/makoto/YamamotoYaeko.jpg
and I was concerned that she didn't survive the war ^_^ I'm so happy
she didn't die fighting the invaders...yet another clear example that
one shouldn't mess with women from Aizu

Wow, these women are so brave...I think if anyone has the time they
should try to gather all their pics and post info at
http://www.shinsengumimb.com or at our main site SHQ

Come to think of it, I guess when the situation was critical someone
like Saitou (Yamaguchi Jiro at Aizu) just didn't have a problem with
women fighting alongside him...its just too much of a coincidence that
Tokio cut her hair that day (small world I guess)

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Shimazu Masayoshi" wrote:

> --At the Battle of Aizu, Yamamoto Yaeko (sister of Yamamoto Kakuma,
> and later, the wife of Niishima Jo (famous Japanese Christian and
> founder of Doshisha University)) left with Saitou for the front. Yaeko
> used a rifle, and outdid everyone in "masculine braveness" (?),
> fighting side by side with the men. She tried cutting off her hair
> with her wakizashi (short sword), but (comment: a little weird after
> this. Not quite sure what's going on) it is said that "Takagi
> Morinosuke's elder sister Tokio cut her (Yaeko's) hair".

> Wow, these women are so brave...I think if anyone has the time they
> should try to gather all their pics and post info at
> http://www.shinsengumimb.com or at our main site SHQ

http://g1342122.at.infoseek.co.jp/bakumatu_gengorou_02.htm

Sec, their pictures are at the very bottom-- if you click on the
thumbnail-size pictures, full-sized ones will appear. But that's only
a few of the women who fought there, I think. At any rate, I'm going
to look elsewhere.

I wonder if Yaeko knew Hara Gorou's sister?

--M.

I've read that Saitou and Tokio had three sons, but am wondering if they had any daughters -- does anyone know? Also, does anyone know if Hijikata married/had children before he died?

Thanks in advance!

Kalli




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/16/2004 4:57:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kallipygia@... writes:

> I've read that Saitou and Tokio had three sons, but am wondering if they had any daughters -- does anyone know? Also, does anyone know if Hijikata married/had children before he
> died?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Kalli

On the subject of Saito, no they never had any daughters. And the youngest son actually wasn't their child. They adopted him. Apparently he was the son of some of Tokio's relatives. He found out when he was in college by asking an aunt. We've yet to figure out exactly what made him suspicious, but the most likely explanation is that his name doesn't appear of the Fujita house documents.

As for Hijikata, there was a rumor that a marriage had been arranged for him at one point, but he never went through with it. Then there's another rumor that someone did have a little girl by him, but unfortunately the baby died soon after birth. So he apparently died single and childless. Such a shame.

-MissBehavin

Warg3791@... wrote:

>>On the subject of Saito, no they never had any daughters<<

At least, none that babelfish has created thusfar. :-D Just give it time... I'm sure babelfish or gist will provide one and drive us all crazy and it'll turn out to be something entirely different (like someone else who had their hair cut by Tokio).

phil (decidedly in an anti-fish mode)


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There is also the very high possibility that his older siblings
treated him differently as well...if you do the math on the birthdates
of Saitou's first 2 sons (their birthdays) and the "birthday" of the
adopted son you will note that the 2 older sons are going to
understand perfectly that the adopted son is not their blood brother

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, Warg3791@a... wrote:
> On the subject of Saito, no they never had any daughters. And the
youngest son actually wasn't their child. They adopted him. Apparently
he was the son of some of Tokio's relatives. He found out when he was
in college by asking an aunt. We've yet to figure out exactly what
made him suspicious, but the most likely explanation is that his name
doesn't appear of the Fujita house documents.

Forgot to mention that Saitou's daughter in law (according to
1to5.net) was known to be as smart as she was pretty...she recorded
the Fujita family documents based on her, obvious, direct interaction
with Tokio+Fujita Goro, and what her husband (Saitou's oldest son)
told her.
She was also present when Fujita Goro died.

> In a message dated 6/16/2004 4:57:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

kallipygia@s... writes:

>
> > I've read that Saitou and Tokio had three sons, but am wondering

if they had any daughters

Okay, we are all still absorbing this info M just translated...now if
you hop on over to 3-hajime.com and go to
http://www.3-hajime.com/cgi-local/patio/patio.cgi
and babelfish the post on 6/16 you will get
"That "Yamaguchi 祐 help transferred family estate to the younger
sister, appeared in Edo and saved the nest egg with intermediate
public service, acquired family stocks" there is an oral book of the
Fujita Tsutomu person, so is, but it probably is not to be unnatural?
The extent which can be bought with the nest egg which is saved with
intermediate public service, are family stocks probably to have
declined heavily? Although there is no either family estate っ て
great circumstance, those which can be transferred? It is doubtful
very. So as for being the family fact. If with it does, with the
family we have related to espionage activities originally with the
parent and child, and the espionage activities where one enlists in
new 撰 group it turns out and with being on? "Chain 帷 child" arrival
it is with we wait for the opinion whose everyone is harsh densely."

which ~seems~ to the poster that the whole business with buying stocks
and stuff add validity to the theory that Saitou's father really was
involved with "espionage"... the poster seems to make a huge leap in
trying to say "like father like son" in that Saitou was a spy within
the new selection group (Shinsengumi).

you know the business with Saitou studying swordsmanship in Aizu also
means that he had at least minimal knowledge of the geography of the
domain which made him the perfect candidate to temporarily lead the
Shinsengumi while Hijikata was recovering from an injury

and another thought...unless toshizo.com's webmaster is drawing quick
conclusions...this also means that Saitou + his dad atleast had to
spend a considerable amount of time in Aizu...how can one possibly
consider X-ryu (Mizoguchi Ittoryu gosh these names are hard to
remember) to be part of your art if you didn't spend some serious time
studying it...its not like you can study it for a month while your dad
was there on "business" and then say I'm part of x-ryu

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, "Shimazu Masayoshi" wrote:
> Saitou Hajime
> (from www.toshizo.com/name, translated by Shimazu Masayoshi, June 15,
> 2004. Note: some missing information added)

> --Hajime's father, entrusting family affairs to his younger sister,
> went to serve in Edo, earning a small sum and buying stocks for the
> family with it.

Just a little modification to Shimazu san's translation.

>--Hajime's father, entrusting family affairs to his younger sister,
>went to serve in Edo, earning a small sum and buying stocks for the
>family with it.

Hajime's father doesn't buy stocks for the family but Gokenin-Kabu
Gokenin is a rank of Shogun's direct vassal and a Gokenin could sell his
estate to merchant, farmer or samurai of lower rank. Those who get Gokenin-Kabu
become Gokenin, but this practice is considered as adoption for the public.
It's a way of social promotion in this periode just like some bourgeois in
Europeen countries who bought their title of nobility in the past.

I hope everyone could understand my English.

Tama


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> which ~seems~ to the poster that the whole business with buying stocks
> and stuff add validity to the theory that Saitou's father really was
> involved with "espionage"... the poster seems to make a huge leap in
> trying to say "like father like son" in that Saitou was a spy within
> the new selection group (Shinsengumi).

Which makes sense considering the rumor that Saitou was an Aizu spy in
the Shinsengumi...

By the way, "Chain 帷 child" is "Kusari Katabira", a sort of
armored undergarment.

--M.

ktamae@... wrote:

>
>Hajime's father doesn't buy stocks for the family but Gokenin-Kabu
>Gokenin is a rank of Shogun's direct vassal and a Gokenin could sell his
>estate to merchant, farmer or samurai of lower rank. Those who get Gokenin-Kabu
>become Gokenin, but this practice is considered as adoption for the public.
>It's a way of social promotion in this periode just like some bourgeois in
>Europeen countries who bought their title of nobility in the past.
>
>I hope everyone could understand my English.
>
>Tama
>
>

Your English is just fine as always. So, Hajime's father bought the
family a higher social rank? Now that's a fascinating bit of news. I
suppose this is how our Hajime was able to be involved with Matsudaira
of Aizu and marry well?

I knew the Matsudaira arranging his marriage was all about knowing the
"right people".

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net

I *know* people hate to think of Saitou doing this, but this really makes me wonder if he divorced Yaso in order to make a more socially advantageous marriage to Tokio, perhaps even acting on advice from Matsudaira. Someone check me on my dates, but isn't there some indication of when Yaso isn't around anymore (the census thing in Shimokita, when he was sharing the house with another family) and *very* soon after he's married to Tokio? Another "like father, like son" in terms of raising the family's status. He seems to have been a man very conscious of such things (thinking of how strict he was in his behavior), as well as very loyal to Matsudaira.

Bienvenue, Tama! Glad you've joined us! (And your English is perfectly understandable... *much* better than my French! :-D )

phil


BarbaraSheridan <bsher213@...> wrote:

ktamae@... wrote:

>
>Hajime's father doesn't buy stocks for the family but Gokenin-Kabu
>Gokenin is a rank of Shogun's direct vassal and a Gokenin could sell his
>estate to merchant, farmer or samurai of lower rank. Those who get Gokenin-Kabu
>become Gokenin, but this practice is considered as adoption for the public.
>It's a way of social promotion in this periode just like some bourgeois in
>Europeen countries who bought their title of nobility in the past.
>
>I hope everyone could understand my English.
>
>Tama
>
>

Your English is just fine as always. So, Hajime's father bought the
family a higher social rank? Now that's a fascinating bit of news. I
suppose this is how our Hajime was able to be involved with Matsudaira
of Aizu and marry well?

I knew the Matsudaira arranging his marriage was all about knowing the
"right people".

--
Barbara Sheridan
http://www.barbarasheridan.net


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secretary <secretarytocapt3@...> wrote:

>>and another thought...unless toshizo.com's webmaster is drawing quick conclusions...this also means that Saitou + his dad atleast had to spend a considerable amount of time in Aizu...how can one possibly consider X-ryu (Mizoguchi Ittoryu gosh these names are hard to remember) to be part of your art if you didn't spend some serious time studying it...its not like you can study it for a month while your dad was there on "business" and then say I'm part of x-ryu<<

I got the impression from M's translation that Saitou's father's connection to Aizu was through his service to the Matsudaira clan in Edo and that Saitou studied at the clan's Edo estate, not that he (or they) necessarily went to Aizu. Have I missed something or am I misunderstanding???

phil


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Okay for the new folks please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miburo/message/3682
which is a translation by our member Serizawa Duck---er I mean Kamo
of this page from Japanese http://www.3-hajime.com/hitobito.html

in a nutshell...it is very likely that his first wife Yaso was real,
she and Saitou may have married around 1871 but may have died before
1874...(dates/facts are never exact when it comes to anything
concerning Saitou)
As Phil mentioned, they shared a home with another family too

Yaso may have
1)died (I think Miss B came up with a highly likely theory of death
during childbirth...which was very common back then)
2)got a divorce

but I also agree with Phil's theory that may have wanted upward
social mobility by using his marriage with Tokio...now here's the
catch...on 3-hajime it mentions the amount of koku (increment in
measuring rice) was given to the Takagi family...it didn't seem like
a whole lot...but he may have been concerned with the connections
she had because even their sons married women descended from Aizu
retainers

--- In SHQ@yahoogroups.com, spiritus saitou
wrote:

> I *know* people hate to think of Saitou doing this, but this

really makes me wonder if he divorced Yaso in order to make a more
socially advantageous marriage to Tokio, perhaps even acting on
advice from Matsudaira.