Death of Nobuhide?

Dear all,

Just a little confusion here. Can anyone tell me when Oda Nobuhide died, as on the Oda Timeline (samurai-archives.com) it says 1551, but at a number of other sites it says 1549???

Thanks in advance


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Papinot says 1549, which date you already have, and beyond that I know nothing more.

Barry Thomas.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Lorimer
To: SamuraiHistory
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:10 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Death of Nobuhide?


Dear all,

Just a little confusion here. Can anyone tell me when Oda Nobuhide died, as on the Oda Timeline (samurai-archives.com) it says 1551, but at a number of other sites it says 1549???

Thanks in advance
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Thomas" wrote:

>
> Papinot says 1549, which date you already have, and beyond that I

know nothing more.

>
>

This would be another example (unfortunately) of Papinot being wrong.
The Shinchokoki (A contemporary record of the life of Oda Nobunaga
and a primary source) has Nobuhide's death the third month, third day
of Tenbun 20, which was 1551. The Sengoku Jinmei Jiten also has 1551.
Papinot's book is good, but is dated and does have a lot of errors.

Kitsuno,

Thanks for the clarification.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunate indeed, as most on this list (a) probably do not have fluency in Japanese, (b) do not have access to the primary sources in Japan. This points up the value of this list, firstly, with the learned scholars generously giving of their knowledge, and secondly to realise that most English references are not to be relied upon for accuracy. Is there any recent equivqlent publication in English that updates Papinot???
Barry Thomas.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kitsuno
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:13 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Death of Nobuhide?


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Thomas" wrote:
>
> Papinot says 1549, which date you already have, and beyond that I
know nothing more.
>
>

This would be another example (unfortunately) of Papinot being wrong.
The Shinchokoki (A contemporary record of the life of Oda Nobunaga
and a primary source) has Nobuhide's death the third month, third day
of Tenbun 20, which was 1551. The Sengoku Jinmei Jiten also has 1551.
Papinot's book is good, but is dated and does have a lot of errors.
.._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Thomas" wrote:

>
> Unfortunate indeed, as most on this list (a) probably do not have

fluency in Japanese, (b) do not have access to the primary sources in
Japan. This points up the value of this list, firstly, with the
learned scholars generously giving of their knowledge, and secondly to
realise that most English references are not to be relied upon for
accuracy. Is there any recent equivqlent publication in English that
updates Papinot???

> Barry Thomas.

According to member Tatsunoshi, Jeroen Lamer's book on Oda Nobunaga
has the correct info.

I think it is safe to assume that any books published by a university
press since the 60's or so should be pretty reliable. Probably some
before that, but I'm just sort of arbitrarily assigning a date.
Turnbull relied(s) heavily on Papinot, at least for his early Samurai
books, so it is generally a good idea to get a second opinion on his
books.