#8747 [2006-05-10 12:20:22]
samurai swords
by
rachelshafer3
Please help i need infromation on who was the inventor of the samurai
sword. i have a report due on friday. i need as much info as possible
thank you.
[Next #8749]
#8750 [2006-05-11 07:42:44]
Re: [samuraihistory] samurai swords
by
federicotrejos
Good morning.
Do you know about japanese history ???
Is said that Japan was made by a sword.
Also it is said that the sun god give the emperor the
three sacred treasures : a mirror, a jewel and a
sword.
Asking who was the inventor of the japanese sword is
a weird question, since it has been modified in
history. All japanese swords are called "To", so
japanese swords are called "NihonTo", the tipical
sword as people know it; is called "Katana".
The evolution of "To" is marked by eras or periods.
So you have Muromachi swords or Shinto swords or
Shishinto swords, etc.
Since I am a Iaido student, I really like discusing
this matters, but right now I should be working. So
I leave you with this link, I know you can find
everything you want there and more ...:
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm
Best regards and tell me how it goes.
__________________________________________________
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#8751 [2006-05-11 06:05:57]
Re: [samuraihistory] samurai swords
by
jpellgen
Perhaps you should think about doing a comparsion style peice instead (Japanese sword styles/European styles). I just think that might be alot easier. Finding the inventor of the 'samurai sword' will probably be fruitless.
A nice resource is 'The Japanese Sword: The Soul of the Samurai' by Gregory Irvine.
Jonathan Ellgen
rachelshafer3 <
rachelshafer3@...> wrote: Please help i need infromation on who was the inventor of the samurai
sword. i have a report due on friday. i need as much info as possible
thank you.
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#8752 [2006-05-13 10:39:30]
Re: [samuraihistory] samurai swords
by
Clive Sinclaire
There is no inventor of the Japanese sword as such. The technology was
brought to Japan from China and Korea, along with the Chinese writing system
and Buddhism in the early centuries of the first millenium. It was adapted
and changed to suit Japanese tastes and fighting techniques by the middle of
the Heian period (AD 794-1185) it was more or less the fully developed sword
that we see today.
Clive Sinclaire
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonathan ellgen" <jpellgen@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] samurai swords
Perhaps you should think about doing a comparsion style peice instead
(Japanese sword styles/European styles). I just think that might be alot
easier. Finding the inventor of the 'samurai sword' will probably be
fruitless.
A nice resource is 'The Japanese Sword: The Soul of the Samurai' by Gregory
Irvine.
Jonathan Ellgen
rachelshafer3 <rachelshafer3@...> wrote: Please help i need
infromation on who was the inventor of the samurai
sword. i have a report due on friday. i need as much info as possible
thank you.
---
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Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
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schedule
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#8754 [2006-05-15 07:10:02]
Re: samurai swords
by
kitsuno
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, federico trejos
wrote:
>
>
> Good morning.
> Do you know about japanese history ???
> Is said that Japan was made by a sword.
Actually, that would be "spear", not sword - I think "The Last
Samurai" changed it for dramatic effect.
#8755 [2006-05-16 07:37:56]
Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
the_jigglin_penguin
I have heard sword from many refrences but never heard of the spear.
Kitsuno <
samurai-listowner@...> wrote: --- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, federico trejos
wrote:
>
>
> Good morning.
> Do you know about japanese history ???
> Is said that Japan was made by a sword.
Actually, that would be "spear", not sword - I think "The Last
Samurai" changed it for dramatic effect.
---
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#8757 [2006-05-16 22:06:37]
Re: samurai swords
by
cathamstershadow
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Jiggler
wrote:
>
> I have heard sword from many refrences but never heard of the
spear.
>
> Kitsuno wrote: --- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, federico trejos
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Good morning.
> > Do you know about japanese history ???
> > Is said that Japan was made by a sword.
>
> Actually, that would be "spear", not sword - I think "The Last
> Samurai" changed it for dramatic effect.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "samuraihistory" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
#8758 [2006-05-17 03:31:30]
Re: samurai swords
by
kitsuno
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Jiggler
wrote:
>
> I have heard sword from many refrences but never heard of the spear.
>
>
No, I don't think so. Only "The Last Samurai". Show me one other
reference that says "Sword".
"All the Heavenly deities summoned the two divine beings, Izanagi and
Izanami, and bade them descend to the nebulous place, and by helping
each other, to consolidate it into terra firma. "We bestow on you,"
they said, "this precious treasure, with which to rule the land, the
creation of which we command you to perform." So saying they handed
them a spear called Ama-no-Nuboko, embellished with costly gems. The
divine couple received respectfully and ceremoniously the sacred
weapon and then withdrew from the presence of the Deities, ready to
perform their august commission. Proceeding forthwith to the Floating
Bridge of Heaven, which lay between the heaven and the earth, they
stood awhile to gaze on that which lay below. What they beheld was a
world not yet condensed, but looking like a sea of filmy fog floating
to and fro in the air, exhaling the while an inexpressibly fragrant
odor. They were, at first, perplexed just how and where to start, but
at length Izanagi suggested to his companion that they should try the
effect of stirring up the brine with their spear. So saying he pushed
down the jeweled shaft and found that it touched something. Then
drawing it up, he examined it and observed that the great drops which
fell from it almost immediately coagulated into an island, which is,
to this day, the Island of Onokoro. Delighted at the result, the two
deities descended forthwith from the Floating Bridge to reach the
miraculously created island. In this island they thenceforth dwelt and
made it the basis of their subsequent task of creating a country."
"Then came the female God, Izanami, and the male, Izanagi. They stood
on the floating bridge of heaven and stirred the ocean with a jewelled
spear until it curdled, and so created the first island, Onokoro. They
built a house on this island, with a central stone pillar that is the
backbone of the world. Izanami walked one way around the pillar, and
Izanagi walked the other. When they met face to face, they united in
marriage.
Their first child was named Hiruko, but he did not thrive, so when he
was three, they placed him in a reed boat and set him adrift, he
became Ebisu, God of fishermen.
Then Izanami gave birth to the eight islands of Japan. And finally
Izanami began to give birth to the Gods who would fashion and rule the
world -- Gods of the sea and Gods of the land, Gods of wind and rain.
But when Izanami gave birth to the God of fire, she was badly burned
and died."
"According to Japanese Shinto Mythology, at the beginning of time, the
heavens and the earths were mixed together in a great cloud. Slowly,
the clearer, lighter parts of the cloud rose up and became heaven. The
heavier parts of the cloud descended and became an ocean of muddy
water. Between the heavens and the earth, a pale green sprout began to
grow. It grew swiftly and was extremely strong. When the plant's
flower burst open, the First God emerged. This First God then created
Izanagi, is the god of all that is light and heavenly. Izanagi, whose
name means "the male who invites", and his wife and sister Izanami,
whose name means "the female who invites". The First God gave Izanagi
the task of finishing the creation of the world.
Standing on rainbow called Ama-no-ukihashi (the floating bridge of the
heavens), they plunged a jewel crested spear into the ocean. When they
pulled it free, the water that dripped from the spear coagulated and
formed the first island of the Japanese archipelago. Izanagi and
Izanami went down to this island and settled down on it. Together, on
this island, they made the islands of Japan."
"Izanagi and Izanami stood on the mighty floating bridge of Heaven.
They looked down into the murky waters of the ocean below and wondered
if there was anything down there. Izanagi turned to Izanami and
questioned "How should we explore the waters we see?" She responded
with a gesture to the jeweled spear that sat on the opposite side of
the bridge. Izanagi smiled and moved to retrieve the spear. He took
it in his hands and leaned over the corner of the bridge. Reaching as
far down as he could he plunged the spear into the ocean waters.
"Anything?" Izanami asked. "Not yet." he answered. She moved to his
side and put her hands on the spear with him. Together they stirred
the waters below in broad sweeping strokes. "Maybe there is just
nothing to be found." Izanami said sounding disappointed. She let go
of the spear and let Izanagi search the waters on his own. He decided
that he had searched enough and began to pull the spear up. As he
did, the brine and sludge clinging to the tip of the spear dripped
back onto the surface of the water. These pieces floated on the water
rather than sinking. They began to harden and form permanent land.
Izanami saw the newly formed island and got very excited. "Oh brother
we have created our own land! Let us move there to make a home!"
Izanagi agreed and they set out for their new home. On arrival they
decided to be wed so they could make more land and more countries.
As brother and sister Izanagi and Izanami populated the earth with
mountains, rivers more islands and many gods. The original islands
they created were thought to be Japan."
"and the myth of Japanese creation in which Izanagei, and his sister
Izanami, watch the first land form from ocean water dripping from
Izanagi's spear."
"While standing on the floating bridge of heaven, the pair looked down
upon the face of the earth and pondered whether or not a potential
country was beneath them. Higher still above them, the primordial
deities realized that there actually was no place for their emissaries
to land, so they cast down to them a magnificent jeweled spear.
Izanagi thrust the jewel-spear of heaven down into the ocean and
stirred. With a "curdle-curdle" sound, he stirred up the brine of the
ocean, and when he lifted the spear the brine coagulated and dripped
off. It soon hardened and formed the island of Onogoro
("spontaneously-congealing") island in Japan. This mythical island,
supposedly located somewhere off the northeastern coast of today's
Shikoku, became Izanagi's and Izanami's home (Kojiki 20, note 5, and
22, note 5)."
"Also known as the 'Prince Yamato Myth' (Nihan Shoki / Kojiki), the
founding myth of Japan involves the relation between man and the Kami
or Natural Spirits/'gods'. The Kami came into existence on a plane
parallel to the Prime Material, whence Japan is created after Izanagi
(the male) 'dips his spear into the ocean' and creates Japan along
with Izanami (the female)."
"The Japanese creation myth is an example of creation from a cosmic
egg. In the beginning, the world was a chaotic
mass, an undefined egg, full of seeds. Gradually, the lighter parts
became heaven and the heavier parts started to form
the earth. The heavens gave birth to three deities called the three
creating deities. More gods were born and around
the seventh generation two siblings were born, Izanagi and Izanami.
The gods had nothing to do as long as the earth
remained in a chaotic state. The gods gave the siblings, Izanagi and
Izanami, a spear embellished with costly gems
and told them to create the land.
"They went to the floating bridge of heaven. When they looked below,
they saw a sea of filmy fog floating in the air.
Izanagi pushed the spear into the fog and found that it touched
something. When he pulled it back, clumps of mud fell
and almost immediately hardened into the island Onogoro."
"The gods created two divine siblings, brother Izanagi and sister
Izanami, who stood upon a floating bridge above the primordial ocean.
Using the jeweled spear of the gods, they churned up the first island,
Onogoro."
#8759 [2006-05-17 10:54:53]
Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
sengokudaimyo
cathamstershadow wrote:
> the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
> fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
> their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
> combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
> during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
> arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
> and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
I think I may just kill myself.
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
#8763 [2006-05-17 11:59:01]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
cathamstershadow
the art of seepuku is not death it is only to maintain your dignity, pride,and honor. in america if you kill yourself you become a discrace because you took the easy way out. Try to live life not end it.
burker1@... wrote: Tony,
If you do kill yourself, make sure you do it in an approved samurai (i.e. assassin) manner.
Bob Burke
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini <
TSUBAME1@...>
To:
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 17 May 2006 20:21:04 +0200
Subject: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
Tony wrote :
>I think I may just kill myself.
For the grammar or for the contents ? :)
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da:
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com] Per conto di Anthony Bryant
Inviato: mercoledì 17 maggio 2006 19.55
A:
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
cathamstershadow wrote:
> the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
> fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
> their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
> combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
> during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
> arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
> and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
I think I may just kill myself.
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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#8764 [2006-05-17 11:34:27]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
hrafn2002
I dont know for sure, but I'd be willing to guess, yes?
;)
On 5/17/06, Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini <TSUBAME1@...> wrote:
>
> Tony wrote :
>
> >I think I may just kill myself.
>
> For the grammar or for the contents ? :)
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com] Per conto di Anthony Bryant
> Inviato: mercoledì 17 maggio 2006 19.55
> A: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Oggetto: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
>
> cathamstershadow wrote:
>
> > the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
> > fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
> > their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
> > combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
> > during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
> > arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
> > and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
>
> I think I may just kill myself.
>
>
> Tony
>
> --
> ----------------------------------
> Tom
> There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well
> please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the
> consequences.
> P. J. O'Rourke
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
#8766 [2006-05-17 08:47:49]
Re: samurai swords
by
cathamstershadow
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Clive Sinclaire"
wrote:
>
> There is no inventor of the Japanese sword as such. The technology
was
> brought to Japan from China and Korea, along with the Chinese
writing system
> and Buddhism in the early centuries of the first millenium. It was
adapted
> and changed to suit Japanese tastes and fighting techniques by the
middle of
> the Heian period (AD 794-1185) it was more or less the fully
developed sword
> that we see today.
> Clive Sinclaire
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonathan ellgen"
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] samurai swords
>
>
> Perhaps you should think about doing a comparsion style peice
instead
> (Japanese sword styles/European styles). I just think that might
be alot
> easier. Finding the inventor of the 'samurai sword' will probably
be
> fruitless.
>
> A nice resource is 'The Japanese Sword: The Soul of the Samurai'
by Gregory
> Irvine.
>
> Jonathan Ellgen
>
> rachelshafer3 wrote: Please help i need
> infromation on who was the inventor of the samurai
> sword. i have a report due on friday. i need as much info as
possible
> thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Japanese
samurais
> Japan airline Japan airline
flight
> schedule
> Japan airline reservation
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "samuraihistory" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using
Yahoo!
> Messenger with Voice.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>i allways thaught that the samurai sword was different frome those
of china and korea because of the difference in the blade structure
#8776 [2006-05-17 18:26:42]
Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
Michael Peters
Now you see why I seldom bother posting. How someone can get so close, but
still completely miss the basic concept is beyond me.
>
>cathamstershadow wrote:
>
> > the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
> > fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
> > their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
> > combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
> > during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
> > arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
> > and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
>
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#8780 [2006-05-17 22:22:19]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
drnostrand
Hi Tony.
> > If you do kill yourself, make sure you do it in an approved
> samurai
> > (i.e. assassin) manner.
>
> Bob, now I have to do you first.
And here I thought that you would insist upon performing the ceremony
with all due protocol and in doors with a skilled second.
#8783 [2006-05-17 19:59:11]
Re: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
cathamstershadow
but if you do post some people actually do understand.
Michael Peters <
shdwstel@...> wrote: Now you see why I seldom bother posting. How someone can get so close, but
still completely miss the basic concept is beyond me.
>
>cathamstershadow wrote:
>
> > the samurai had allways used spears, arrows and other objects to
> > fight try reading the five rings by minnamoto they would rarely use
> > their swords to tell you the truth they only used it for close
> > combat because the sword itself is a precious peice of machinery
> > during a war and breaks if give to much pressure they used bows and
> > arrows normally hoping to strike down the enemy from a far distance
> > and samurai were mainly used for assasinations
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
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#8784 [2006-05-17 23:58:52]
Fellow Martial Artists - Link Exchange Now Available
by
tutor2000
Aloha fellow Martial Artists;
I'm updating my link exchange page.
Let me know if you'd like to trade links and possibly increase visitors to both of our sites.
Below is my information
______________________
Kirkhams Ebooks Software and Videos
Martial arts and self-defense printable ebooks, software and videos on lessons, styles, drills, techniques, articles and more. Feel free to browse or submit your own. Download my workout timer which will even play your music.
http://kirkhamsebooks.com
______________________________
If you're a code person here's the code if you want to use it
______________________________
http://kirkhamsebooks.com/">Kirkhams
Ebooks Software and Videos
Martial arts and self-defense printable ebooks, software and videos on lessons, styles, drills, techniques, articles and more. Feel free to browse or submit your own. Download my workout timer which will even play your music.
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Clickbank members may link to the merchant name hometutor
__________________________________________
I'll place whatever information you give me here
http://kirkhamsebooks.com/Advertising/Link_Exchange/LinkExchange.html
_________________________________________
Thanks for your consideration
Rick
Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc.
help@...
#8787 [2006-05-18 20:58:02]
RE: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
angushaynes
> Tony, I think this might become a double suicide.
>
> Hm. Could we kaishaku each other?
Jeez it, uhhh, sure would be a shame to see you guys go and all... but
I've got this katana just lying around here gathering dust, and I've
really been on the lookout for a fresh cadaver to test my skills....
AngusH
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#8789 [2006-05-18 11:36:53]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
federicotrejos
Why did you say : "kill your self (ie: assasin )
aproved samurai manner". Do you practice any
Japanese Sword Martial Art ???
A real samurai never killed another person just
because. There was always a reason and certanly he
never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
So he never kill as an assasin. In previous Japan
eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
someone to kill another person due to usually
political reasons.
And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
stained or black blood ).
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#8791 [2006-05-18 11:18:11]
RE: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
federicotrejos
Good afternoon.
To all.
A Kaishaku is an assistant in the Sepukku ritual.
His duty is to finish the agony of the person who is
going to commit Sepukku, by beheading. It is a must
respectful position for a swordsman since to become a
Kaishaku, you must first show your ability. In Iaido
demostrations it is usually not demostrated for
respect to people, to Kaishaku and to Sepukku.
Best regards.
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#8792 [2006-05-18 21:04:08]
R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
kitsuno
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, federico trejos
wrote:
>
>
> Why did you say : "kill your self (ie: assasin )
> aproved samurai manner". Do you practice any
> Japanese Sword Martial Art ???
> A real samurai never killed another person just
> because. There was always a reason and certanly he
> never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
> So he never kill as an assasin. In previous Japan
> eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
> someone to kill another person due to usually
> political reasons.
>
> And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
> use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
> back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
> showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> stained or black blood ).
The fact that no one kills "without a reason" unless they are
schizophrenic and can't comprehend thier actions (even serial
killers kill "for a reason" - they enjoy it) aside, you are spoutng
modern Samurai bullshido drivel. Now *I* need a kaishaku!
#8794 [2006-05-18 21:07:17]
RE: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
angushaynes
> Why did you say : "kill your self (ie: assasin )
> aproved samurai manner". Do you practice any
> Japanese Sword Martial Art ???
> A real samurai never killed another person just
> because. There was always a reason and certanly he
> never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
> So he never kill as an assasin. In previous Japan
> eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
> someone to kill another person due to usually
> political reasons.
>
> And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
> use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
> back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
> showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> stained or black blood ).
Oh dear.
Look, samurai were every bit as human and corrupt as everybody else. I
suggest you throw your copy of Hagakure in to the fire and buy yourself
some history books.
-AngusH
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#8796 [2006-05-18 21:26:45]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
sengokudaimyo
federico trejos wrote:
> A real samurai never killed another person just
> because.
Yes, he did, and he could. Please look up "kirisute gomen."
There was always a reason and certanly hesdf
> never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
> So he never kill as an assasin. In previous Japan
> eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
> someone to kill another person due to usually
> political reasons.
>
> And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
> use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
> back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
> showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> stained or black blood ).
>
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
#8797 [2006-05-18 21:29:45]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
sengokudaimyo
federico trejos wrote:
> A real samurai never killed another person just
> because. There was always a reason and certanly he
> never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
Yes, he did, and he could. Please look up "kirisute gomen."
And no samurai ever called his sword "shinken." That's a
modern term.
> So he never kill as an assasin.
Actually, he did a lot of the time. Samurai also lied,
cheated, and betrayed people.
They were HUMAN, not comic-book heroes or cardboard cutouts.
> In previous Japan
> eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
> someone to kill another person due to usually
> political reasons.
Hitokiri?
Please read history instead of manga, and try watching less
anime.
> And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
> use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
> back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
> showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> stained or black blood ).
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
#8805 [2006-05-19 03:12:38]
"Bullshido" //was "samurai swords"
by
dodu_gabriel
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno"
wrote:
>...you are spoutng modern Samurai bullshido drivel...
Sorry to disturb, but I was very amused by the term "bullshido". I
laughed for about 2 minutes. Where did you get it, did you invent it,
or was it around for some time already?
#8810 [2006-05-19 18:55:17]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
kiyokage
--- Anthony Bryant <
anthony_bryant@...> wrote:
> federico trejos wrote:
>
>
> > A real samurai never killed another person just
> > because. There was always a reason and certanly
> he
> > never stain the edge of his shinken with out a
> reason.
>
>
> Yes, he did, and he could. Please look up "kirisute
> gomen."
> And no samurai ever called his sword "shinken."
> That's a
> modern term.
>
> > So he never kill as an assasin.
>
> Actually, he did a lot of the time. Samurai also
> lied,
> cheated, and betrayed people.
>
> They were HUMAN, not comic-book heroes or cardboard
> cutouts.
>
> > In previous Japan
> > eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid
> by
> > someone to kill another person due to usually
> > political reasons.
>
> Hitokiri?
>
> Please read history instead of manga, and try
> watching less
> anime.
>
> > And if some one wants to kill his self, please do
> not
> > use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to
> give
> > back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace
> by
> > showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> > stained or black blood ).
>
>
>
> Tony
I'm not sure if i should laugh hysterically, or weep
endlessly.
----Michael Arndt
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#8816 [2006-05-20 16:33:16]
Re: R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
cathamstershadow
A samurai had the right to kill anybody that didn't show respect towards them!
Anthony Bryant <
anthony_bryant@...> wrote: federico trejos wrote:
> A real samurai never killed another person just
> because.
Yes, he did, and he could. Please look up "kirisute gomen."
There was always a reason and certanly hesdf
> never stain the edge of his shinken with out a reason.
> So he never kill as an assasin. In previous Japan
> eras, Hitokiri were in their majority Ronin paid by
> someone to kill another person due to usually
> political reasons.
>
> And if some one wants to kill his self, please do not
> use Sepukku. Sepukku is a ritual designed to give
> back the dignity of a person who falls in disgrace by
> showing that his blood is red (then pure, and no
> stained or black blood ).
>
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
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#8819 [2006-05-21 09:07:19]
R: [samuraihistory] Re: samurai swords
by
kitsuno
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Bryant
wrote:
>
> Kitsuno wrote:
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, greg eddy
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > A samurai had the right to kill anybody that didn't show
respect
> > towards them!
> > >
> >
> > That's a little too Clavellian...
>
> Man, I think I'm going to have to take a vacation from the
> group.
>
> This is really starting to get to me.
>
> Tony
Fortunately the Citadel seems somewhat more fortified :P
#8821 [2006-05-21 13:32:39]
how to help educate the less informed members of the samurai list and raise the level of discourse
by
sinegalm
Obviously there is a very wide range of different levels of knowledge of
Japanese history on this list. Some people are extraordinarily well read.
Unfortunately, however, some others haven't had the opportunity to read and
learn much Japan history. I myself am far *less* knowledgeable than many on
this list. I try to learn something new every day, which is why I enjoy this
list.
What is the best way to respond to less knowledgeable members or various
misconceptions of history? How can we raise the level of discourse on this
list to make this list more informative for all, without becoming elitist or
insulting to those less knowledgeable? Currently the level of discourse on
the new Samurai Citadel website seems higher, but as was said, "ninja can
enter anywhere" at anytime. I suspect similar problems might occur over time
on the Samurai Citadel, as numbers of members increase.
Some questions for thought and discussion
1) What is it about Japan history and samurai history that seems to
foster over-romanticizing and wild historical inaccuracies?
2) Can we "market" the samurai list in such a way that the purpose of
the list is better communicated to list members and potential members? How
can we better communicate our purpose as discussion of serious (but fun)
Japan history, as opposed to discussion of the ninja crowd, or video game
aficionados, or martial artists, or manga?
3) What is the best approach to handing members who are less informed?
4) Can we create a discussion environment where we encourage more open
free discussion without intimidation, and yet still raise the level of
discourse?
Regards,
Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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#8831 [2006-05-22 19:49:31]
Re: how to help educate the less informed members of the samurai list and raise the level of discourse
by
shikisokuzekukusokuzeshiki8
> What is the best way to respond to less knowledgeable members or
various misconceptions of history?
Have them read these links.
http://www.samurai-archives.com/
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e641.html
>Currently the level of discourse on the new Samurai Citadel website
seems higher,
Forum style is much easier to find what visitors want to know.
It may be good to navigate the less knowledgeable members to Samurai
Citadel.
shikisoku