Leeds Royal Armouries 12th May

Hello Rod

My name is Ray King and I'm from Washington in Tyne & Wear.It's pointless descibing myself so I will
ask around first for the North Herts scale modelling club and then for you.It would be great to meet up
with you and any other fellow members of the samuraihistory group.
As you already know I am interested in the battle of Nagashino (Shidarahara) and own Ospreys
Campaign Book No.69 "Nagashino 1575 (Slaughter at the Barricades) writen by Stephen Turnbull".
This book is of great value in my research,but the battlefield diagram on page 70-71 shows the charge
and Sakai Tadatsugu as being on the right flank behind Okubu Tadayo.This is misleading as Sakai
was in overall command of the raiding party on the forts of Tobigasuyama.
I am also having problems acounting for all the troops involved in the battle.As yet I have only
researched the Oda/Tokugawa contingents as follows.................................................................
Mizuno Nobumoto.........................................................................................................1,000 men
Sakuma Nobumori.........................................................................................................2,000 men
Niwa Nagahide..............................................................................................................2,000 men
Oda Nobunaga..............................................................................................................4,000 men
Hashiba Hideyoshi.........................................................................................................2,000 men
Takigawa Kazumasu.....................................................................................................2,000 men
Torii Mototada............................................................................................................... 800 men
Tokugawa Nobuyasu.....................................................................................................1,000 men
Ishikawa Kazumasa......................................................................................................1,000 men
Tokugawa Ieyasu..........................................................................................................2,000 men
Honda Takakatsu...........................................................................................................1,000 men
Sakakibara Yasumasa...................................................................................................1,000 men
Osuka Yasutaka.............................................................................................................1,000 men
Okubo Tadayo...............................................................................................................1,000 men
Est.Total of Troops in battle line...................................................................................21,800 men
Add to this the Arquebus Corps......................................................................................3,000 men
The Raiding Party..........................................................................................................3,000 men
The Rear Guard.............................................................................................................4,000 men
Shibata Katsuie.............................................................................................................2,000 men
This gives an est.grand total of....................................................................................33,800 men

In the text Shibata Katsuie is mentioned as supporting Hashiba Hideyoshi when the Takeda
cavalry under the command of the Sanada brothers managed to break through into the Oda
lines where they engaged in hand-to-hand combat for a short time before being killed.
Unfortunately there is no mention of him being in charge of any contingent,but being one of
Oda Nobunaga's Fudai-shu (Hereditary Vassals) along with Niwa Nagahide and Sakuma
Nobumori who both had positions in the battle line,surely Shibata Katsuie had the same amount
of men under his command and was given a position on the battlefield.
It is estimated that Oda Nobunaga had 30,000 men and that Tokugawa Ieyasu had 8,000 men
which gives me a shortfall even allowing for (Shibata Katsuie having 2,000 men) of 4,200 men.
I realise that the mounted samurai of the allied sides fought dismounted during the 8 hour
battle supporting the ashigaru spear and arquebus in their position behind the palisade fence
and only mounted for the pursuit of the Takeda once these had begun their retreat.
Are these unaccounted men therefore horse holders for the dismounted samurai ?
Of the Tozama-shu (the "Outer Lords") only Takigawa Kazumasu is mentioned and given a
position in the battle line, so where were the others "Nagaoka Fujitaka,Akechi Mitsuhide,
Ando Noritoshi and Mori Yoshinari".
My last question concerns the colours of various sashimono's, the samuraihistory group
have provided the mons of the lords and their clans, but what of the colours ?
Was Tokugawa Nobuyasu's mon the same as his fathers at the battle and was Hashiba
Hideyoshi's mon the same as his later Toyotomi mon.
Sorry this has been so long winded,but I do need this information!!!
See you on Sunday at the Royal Armouries at Leeds.

Ray King.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe Stephen Turnbull will only be at the Armouries in the
morning.

I also hope to attend subject to family commitments.

Any other details about the event would be most helpful as the
armouries web site mentions nothing.

During May the Armouries are having jousting events on weekends, so
thats an added attraction for going!

Kind regards

Rob

Rob Broom
Warhammer Historical General Manager

--- In samuraihistory@y..., "Ray" wrote:
> Hello Rod
>
> My name is Ray King and I'm from Washington in Tyne
& Wear.It's pointless descibing myself so I will
> ask around first for the North Herts scale modelling
club and then for you.It would be great to meet up
> with you and any other fellow members of the
samuraihistory group.
> As you already know I am interested in the battle of
Nagashino (Shidarahara) and own Ospreys
> Campaign Book No.69 "Nagashino 1575 (Slaughter at
the Barricades) writen by Stephen Turnbull".
> This book is of great value in my research,but the
battlefield diagram on page 70-71 shows the charge
> and Sakai Tadatsugu as being on the right flank
behind Okubu Tadayo.This is misleading as Sakai
> was in overall command of the raiding party on the
forts of Tobigasuyama.
> I am also having problems acounting for all the
troops involved in the battle.As yet I have only
> researched the Oda/Tokugawa contingents as
follows...............................................................
..
> Mizuno
Nobumoto..............................................................
...........................................1,000 men
> Sakuma
Nobumori..............................................................
...........................................2,000 men
> Niwa
Nagahide..............................................................
................................................2,000 men
> Oda
Nobunaga..............................................................
................................................4,000 men
> Hashiba
Hideyoshi.............................................................
............................................2,000 men
> Takigawa
Kazumasu..............................................................
.......................................2,000 men
> Torii
Mototada..............................................................
................................................. 800 men
> Tokugawa
Nobuyasu..............................................................
.......................................1,000 men
> Ishikawa
Kazumasa..............................................................
........................................1,000 men
> Tokugawa
Ieyasu................................................................
..........................................2,000 men
> Honda
Takakatsu.............................................................
..............................................1,000 men
> Sakakibara
Yasumasa..............................................................
.....................................1,000 men
> Osuka
Yasutaka..............................................................
...............................................1,000 men
> Okubo
Tadayo................................................................
...............................................1,000 men
> Est.Total of Troops in battle
line..................................................................
.................21,800 men
> Add to this the Arquebus
Corps.................................................................
.....................3,000 men
> The Raiding
Party.................................................................
.........................................3,000 men
> The Rear
Guard.................................................................
............................................4,000 men
> Shibata
Katsuie...............................................................
..............................................2,000 men
> This gives an est.grand total
of....................................................................
................33,800 men
>
> In the text Shibata Katsuie is mentioned as
supporting Hashiba Hideyoshi when the Takeda
> cavalry under the command of the Sanada brothers
managed to break through into the Oda
> lines where they engaged in hand-to-hand combat for
a short time before being killed.
> Unfortunately there is no mention of him being in
charge of any contingent,but being one of
> Oda Nobunaga's Fudai-shu (Hereditary Vassals) along
with Niwa Nagahide and Sakuma
> Nobumori who both had positions in the battle
line,surely Shibata Katsuie had the same amount
> of men under his command and was given a position on
the battlefield.
> It is estimated that Oda Nobunaga had 30,000 men and
that Tokugawa Ieyasu had 8,000 men
> which gives me a shortfall even allowing for
(Shibata Katsuie having 2,000 men) of 4,200 men.
> I realise that the mounted samurai of the allied
sides fought dismounted during the 8 hour
> battle supporting the ashigaru spear and arquebus in
their position behind the palisade fence
> and only mounted for the pursuit of the Takeda once
these had begun their retreat.
> Are these unaccounted men therefore horse holders
for the dismounted samurai ?
> Of the Tozama-shu (the "Outer Lords") only Takigawa
Kazumasu is mentioned and given a
> position in the battle line, so where were the
others "Nagaoka Fujitaka,Akechi Mitsuhide,
> Ando Noritoshi and Mori Yoshinari".
> My last question concerns the colours of various
sashimono's, the samuraihistory group
> have provided the mons of the lords and their clans,
but what of the colours ?
> Was Tokugawa Nobuyasu's mon the same as his fathers
at the battle and was Hashiba
> Hideyoshi's mon the same as his later Toyotomi mon.
> Sorry this has been so long winded,but I do need
this information!!!
> See you on Sunday at the Royal Armouries at Leeds.
>
>
Ray King.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]