ika

sorry to bring up an unrelated subject, but i need to know if the japanese
word Ika (squid)
is written in katakana or hirigana, as my japanese-english dictionary gives
a contradictory result to my english japanese.

cheers
miles r dewey

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Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved for
words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed words.

Happy to help!

Hirai


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "miles dewey"
wrote:

>
> sorry to bring up an unrelated subject, but i need to know if the

japanese

> word Ika (squid)
> is written in katakana or hirigana, as my japanese-english

dictionary gives

> a contradictory result to my english japanese.
>
> cheers
> miles r dewey
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free

newsletters!

> http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
>

In theory anyway. In Japanese schools they teach katakana before hiragana
(which really struck me as odd) and I often saw things like trash bins
(gomi) marked in katakana. Possibly one of the dictionaries is a learners
dictionary and katakana is default.

M.J.Peters

>Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved for
>words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed words.
>
>Happy to help!
>
>Hirai
>
>
>--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "miles dewey"
> wrote:
> >
> > sorry to bring up an unrelated subject, but i need to know if the
>japanese
> > word Ika (squid)
> > is written in katakana or hirigana, as my japanese-english
>dictionary gives
> > a contradictory result to my english japanese.
> >
> > cheers
> > miles r dewey
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free
>newsletters!
> > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Rob wrote:

> Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved for
> words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed words.

No. I see "ika" written in katakana much more often than in hiragana,
though both (and kanji, for that matter) are possible. Japanese has
tendencies and preferences (one of which is the use of katakana for
animals and plants) in terms of which script is most often used to write
certain words, but few strict rules; which script gets used often
depends partly on the context the word is used in, and partly on the
writer's preference.

--
Phil
Men with sharpness of mind are to be found only among those with a
penchant for thought. -- Shiba Yoshimasa

--- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:

> Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually
> reserved for
> words that did not originate in Japan or what we
> call borrowed words.

That's not true at all, judging by what I see in the
seafood section of my grocery store, and the sushiya I
go to regularly. Both write ika in katakana usually.

What Hirai says is "generally" correct, katakana is
usually reserved for words originating outside of the
Japanese language in modern usage. However, this isn't
a hard and fast rule by any means, and frequently in
advertising, price tags, signs, etc. you will see
things written in kanji, hiragana, katakana, and
romaji with no rhyme or reason. There's nothing wrong
with writing Ika in katakana as opposed to hiragana. I
suppose you could use the kanji, too, though I think
even most Japanese would be surprised to see it. If
you were writing in a letter to your aunt that you ate
some fine yari-ika at the local sushiya, you'd likely
use hiragana; however, there's no requirement for you
to do so.

Funnily enough, the sushiya I go to usually has the
specials up on the blackboard. Being katakana impaired
like I am (I simply DESPISE it), I spent 10 minutes
trying to figure out what "kashio" was...until it
dawned on me that one of the specials was hon-katsuo.
D'oh!

























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Please, To a person trying to learn to speak Japanese, Which is easest to
learn? Katakana or Hiragana? Irish Kee

-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michael Peters
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:23 PM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Re: ika


In theory anyway. In Japanese schools they teach katakana before hiragana
(which really struck me as odd) and I often saw things like trash bins
(gomi) marked in katakana. Possibly one of the dictionaries is a learners
dictionary and katakana is default.

M.J.Peters

>Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved for
>words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed words.
>
>Happy to help!
>
>Hirai
>
>
>--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "miles dewey"
> wrote:
> >
> > sorry to bring up an unrelated subject, but i need to know if the
>japanese
> > word Ika (squid)
> > is written in katakana or hirigana, as my japanese-english
>dictionary gives
> > a contradictory result to my english japanese.
> >
> > cheers
> > miles r dewey
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free
>newsletters!
> > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

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---
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---
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‚hfind this to be truly hilarious. Being a man who admits when he is
wrong I concede to the fact that squid may be written in katakana
although I have not seen this in any of the sushiya I frequent.
However I beg you please tell me how ika may be written in kanji.
With all these messages for this one small matter I certainly hope
the original asking member has been satisfied.

I may be expelled from this group for saying this and that would be
truly a shame as I have enjoyed the various conversations immensely.
Far too often the conversations turn away from a pleasant learning
experience into an aggressive "my stick is bigger than your stick"
banter. It is understood that many of the writers hold degrees in
Japanese history. That being said it is also true that many of us
don't. Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment or do you
simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of others?

We are all here because we share an interest in the history, lives
and values of the samurai. It is wonderful to have a group of people
who share this common interest and can both teach as well as learn
from one another. To that end I would say this, "Serve the group and
not one's self interest of greatness, for all will be the better for
it."

Hirai

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Phil wrote:
>
> Rob wrote:
>
> > Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved
for
> > words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed
words.
>
>
>
> No. I see "ika" written in katakana much more often than in
hiragana,
> though both (and kanji, for that matter) are possible. Japanese
has
> tendencies and preferences (one of which is the use of katakana
for
> animals and plants) in terms of which script is most often used to
write
> certain words, but few strict rules; which script gets used often
> depends partly on the context the word is used in, and partly on
the
> writer's preference.
>
> --
> Phil
> Men with sharpness of mind are to be found only among those with a
> penchant for thought. -- Shiba Yoshimasa
>

--- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:

> However I beg you please tell me how ika may be
> written in kanji.

‰G‘¯

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/bin/dsearch?index=00187900&p=%A5%A4%A5%AB&dname=2na&dtype=1&stype=1&pagenum=1


Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment

> or do you
> simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of
> others?

Who are you referring to? If you've got a problem with
a particular poster, I suggest you either address that
person or bring it up with the moderators (myself or
Kitsuno). The post to which you replied doesn't seem
nasty or belittling to me at all--methinks you're
being a little too sensitive.

To that end I would say this,

> "Serve the group and
> not one's self interest of greatness, for all will
> be the better for
> it."

Again, I'm not sure what you're taking issue with--the
post to which you replied simply contradicted what you
said, which others (myself included) have also done.
I'm not sure why you're getting defensive.

__________________________________________________
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--- "Kee D. Curlee" <threekeys@...> wrote:

Please, To a person trying to learn to speak

> Japanese, Which is easest to
> learn? Katakana or Hiragana? Irish Kee

Personally, both are easy. However, I've determined
I've got some rare form of dyslexia which only
manifests itself when I'm forced to tell the diffence
between the "tsu", "shi", "so", and "n" in katakana.
For whatever reason, my brain goes into some sort of
"katakana brain freeze" when I'm confronted with a
word I'm not used to seeing in katakana/unfamiliar
with. For instance, if I see "ありがとう" (Arigatou)
in hiragana, I just read it, as easily as an English
word, since it's normally written in hiragana and I
recognize it. It's just like you don't have to sound
out "th-a-n-k...y-ou" when you read it. However if I
see it in katakana: ƒAリガƒgƒE, my brain locks up, and
I have to sound it out.

This is likely just a personal issue--my wife says I'm
katakana challenged.

__________________________________________________
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thanks to everyone for the help. i have been learning japanese now for about
six months to aid my massive passion for japanese history. the context of my
origanal query was because i have just formed a band called 'squid jelly'
(http://squidjelly.moonfruit.com) as a side project to my other
proffessional band. and i wanted to know how to write the name in japanese.
i think i'll stick with the katakana, as this would go nicely with the
suffix (zerii).

again, many thanks to everyone

Miles R Dewey

>From: "Rob"
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: ika
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:24:30 -0000
>
>hfind this to be truly hilarious. Being a man who admits when he is
>wrong I concede to the fact that squid may be written in katakana
>although I have not seen this in any of the sushiya I frequent.
>However I beg you please tell me how ika may be written in kanji.
>With all these messages for this one small matter I certainly hope
>the original asking member has been satisfied.
>
>I may be expelled from this group for saying this and that would be
>truly a shame as I have enjoyed the various conversations immensely.
>Far too often the conversations turn away from a pleasant learning
>experience into an aggressive "my stick is bigger than your stick"
>banter. It is understood that many of the writers hold degrees in
>Japanese history. That being said it is also true that many of us
>don't. Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment or do you
>simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of others?
>
>We are all here because we share an interest in the history, lives
>and values of the samurai. It is wonderful to have a group of people
>who share this common interest and can both teach as well as learn
>from one another. To that end I would say this, "Serve the group and
>not one's self interest of greatness, for all will be the better for
>it."
>
>Hirai
>
>
>--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Phil wrote:
> >
> > Rob wrote:
> >
> > > Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved
>for
> > > words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed
>words.
> >
> >
> >
> > No. I see "ika" written in katakana much more often than in
>hiragana,
> > though both (and kanji, for that matter) are possible. Japanese
>has
> > tendencies and preferences (one of which is the use of katakana
>for
> > animals and plants) in terms of which script is most often used to
>write
> > certain words, but few strict rules; which script gets used often
> > depends partly on the context the word is used in, and partly on
>the
> > writer's preference.
> >
> > --
> > Phil
> > Men with sharpness of mind are to be found only among those with a
> > penchant for thought. -- Shiba Yoshimasa
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>Join the 2006 Samurai Fiction contest:
>http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html
>
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
>---
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Actually, one of the things this list does is try to dispell
misunderstandings by westerners about Japan. Before moving to Japan I too
believed katakana was only for foreign words, after all that's what my
Japanese teacher in college said. You think " there can't be THAT many
foreign words in japanese. Memorize koohii and erebeta, it's easier." Then
you get to Japan. Japanese are honorable people but they don't play by the
rules. ;)

M.J. Peters

> > >
> > > > Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved
> >for
> > > > words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed
> >words.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No. I see "ika" written in katakana much more often than in
> >hiragana,
> > > though both (and kanji, for that matter) are possible. Japanese
> >has
> > > tendencies and preferences (one of which is the use of katakana
> >for
> > > animals and plants) in terms of which script is most often used to
> >write
> > > certain words, but few strict rules; which script gets used often
> > > depends partly on the context the word is used in, and partly on
> >the
> > > writer's preference.

_________________________________________________________________
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Perhaps he does it because of the tone the messages are being written. I've also felt kind of small and stupid after seeing the answers for the couple of my comments that decided to read only instead of being involved in writing.
Kindest regards
Matty

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:


--- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:

> However I beg you please tell me how ika may be
> written in kanji.

‰G‘¯

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/bin/dsearch?index=00187900&p=%A5%A4%A5%AB&dname=2na&dtype=1&stype=1&pagenum=1


Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment

> or do you
> simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of
> others?

Who are you referring to? If you've got a problem with
a particular poster, I suggest you either address that
person or bring it up with the moderators (myself or
Kitsuno). The post to which you replied doesn't seem
nasty or belittling to me at all--methinks you're
being a little too sensitive.

To that end I would say this,

> "Serve the group and
> not one's self interest of greatness, for all will
> be the better for
> it."

Again, I'm not sure what you're taking issue with--the
post to which you replied simply contradicted what you
said, which others (myself included) have also done.
I'm not sure why you're getting defensive.

__________________________________________________
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---
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" wrote:

>
> ‚hfind this to be truly hilarious. Being a man who admits when he is
> wrong I concede to the fact that squid may be written in katakana
> although I have not seen this in any of the sushiya I frequent.

> However I beg you please tell me how ika may be written in kanji.
> With all these messages for this one small matter I certainly hope
> the original asking member has been satisfied.
>
> I may be expelled from this group for saying this and that would be
> truly a shame as I have enjoyed the various conversations immensely.
> Far too often the conversations turn away from a pleasant learning
> experience into an aggressive "my stick is bigger than your stick"
> banter. It is understood that many of the writers hold degrees in
> Japanese history. That being said it is also true that many of us
> don't. Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment or do you
> simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of others?

As the moderator and owner, let it be known right now that I don't
care about "feelings". Anyone who wants warm fuzzies and emotional
coddling can feel free to join this group:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/oprah/

As far as I can tell, there are a few things at work here on this
list. First, the people who have been here the longest and still post
frequently all have known eachother for a few years now. Some of us
have even met in real life. Since we are the "in" crowd (being
moderators and/or people who are in with the moderator crowd) we tend
to not feel the need to "self-edit" our posts for the emotional
security of others. We play rough. Another thing at play here is that
most of the oldbies here are 1. guys, 2. guys who don't particularly
worry about offending others, and 3. Quite independent, fairly
cynical, and don't mince words. Some people take this as being
insulting or being an outright attack on them. It isn't. We are a
sarcastic bunch, but a pretty cool group once you get to know us,
unless you are the sensitive type that feels that sarcasm is always
mean and nasty. Don't expect us to put on velvet kid gloves when we
post. I can't type with gloves anyway.

Remember rule #4, which should have been read when anyone joins the list:

4. Have a thick skin and do not take things
personally. While we won't allow personal insults, you
must be able to handle being told you are wrong,
especially if you are wrong. No one on this email list
is infallible. Similarly, you must be able to handle
sarcasm. The moderators will not protect you if you
whine. The easiest thing to do is just not take things
personally. If you post a theory that does not fit with
what is commonly known and accepted as history,
then back up your ideas with sources OR face the wrath
of the more knowledgeable. Save your tears.

Some people may be insulted by this post and leave. Oh well. Don't let
the door hit you on the way out, or strain your finger clicking the
'leave this group' button, or whatever. For the rest of you who aren't
too sensitive to the written word, keep on posting, keep on asking
questions, and keep in mind that sarcasm is just because it is funny,
it isn't an attack, and a lot of the time, you may think you are being
attacked when all it is is just a straight answer. People here don't
tend to wrap the truth in a warm silk blanket, with perfume and roses.
Sometimes we hit bludgeon you with it. I understand that some people
are touchy feely, and I have to put up with that in the real world.
But this isn't the real world, this is MY world. That's what us
in-group people have the perrogative to do. Consider it some minor
hazing in order to get into the fraternity (although there are women
too). I am not PC, and I could give a rat's ass about being PC. Put up
with the hazing long enough, and you might find you accidentaly
learned something. And after a while, you too may end up in the in
crowd, and sit with us at the cool table in the cafeteria.
You have been warned, fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your
level of moral indignation) this is the way this place is run, so if
you can handle it, you are super kewl. If not, Ted Nugent is
dissapointed in you. And maybe I am too.

And, for the record: I have only banned one person EVER for being
combatitive, and that was because they were emotionaly erratic.

And maybe most importantly, don't forget who you are dealing with:
http://tinyurl.com/e2fck

--- Mateusz Ostrowski <ostrowski75@...> wrote:

> Perhaps he does it because of the tone the messages
> are being written. I've also felt kind of small and
> stupid after seeing the answers for the couple of my
> comments that decided to read only instead of being
> involved in writing.

1. Any tone is read, not written. See example below:

>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:
>
> > However I beg you please tell me how ika may be
> > written in kanji.
>
> ‰G‘¯
>
>

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/bin/dsearch?index=00187900&p=%A5%A4%A5%AB&dname=2na&dtype=1&stype=1&pagenum=1

Question asked (now, you want to read tone into
something, you can read spades into that. "I beg you
to tell me..." seems rather condescending and superior
to me, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.).

Answer provided. No commentary, no snarkiness,
nothing. WHERE is the "tone"?

Kitsuno's email says everything--we're not here to
coddle egos and provide affirmation. When someone
provides evidence to contradict you, then take it like
an adult.

__________________________________________________
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Got it.
Thanks

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- Mateusz Ostrowski <ostrowski75@...> wrote:

> Perhaps he does it because of the tone the messages
> are being written. I've also felt kind of small and
> stupid after seeing the answers for the couple of my
> comments that decided to read only instead of being
> involved in writing.

1. Any tone is read, not written. See example below:

>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:
>
> > However I beg you please tell me how ika may be
> > written in kanji.
>
> ‰G‘¯
>
>

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/bin/dsearch?index=00187900&p=%A5%A4%A5%AB&dname=2na&dtype=1&stype=1&pagenum=1

Question asked (now, you want to read tone into
something, you can read spades into that. "I beg you
to tell me..." seems rather condescending and superior
to me, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.).

Answer provided. No commentary, no snarkiness,
nothing. WHERE is the "tone"?

Kitsuno's email says everything--we're not here to
coddle egos and provide affirmation. When someone
provides evidence to contradict you, then take it like
an adult.

__________________________________________________
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---
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---------------------------------






Mateusz B. Ostrowski



Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair.

G. K. Chesterton






---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I recently saw a TV program that Ieyasu was able to take power because of
the guns on Will Adams boat. I did not think this to be true, but another
friend said that before Adams arrived they were using arquebus, and that
Adams had introduced the flintlock. Can someone set me straight please?

Thanks

Paul

>From: "Kitsuno" <samurai-listowner@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: ika and angst
>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:54:26 -0000
>
>--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" wrote:
> >
> > �hfind this to be truly hilarious. Being a man who admits when he is
> > wrong I concede to the fact that squid may be written in katakana
> > although I have not seen this in any of the sushiya I frequent.
>
> > However I beg you please tell me how ika may be written in kanji.
> > With all these messages for this one small matter I certainly hope
> > the original asking member has been satisfied.
> >
> > I may be expelled from this group for saying this and that would be
> > truly a shame as I have enjoyed the various conversations immensely.
> > Far too often the conversations turn away from a pleasant learning
> > experience into an aggressive "my stick is bigger than your stick"
> > banter. It is understood that many of the writers hold degrees in
> > Japanese history. That being said it is also true that many of us
> > don't. Does that make us somehow unworthy of comment or do you
> > simply derive pleasure in the belittlement of others?
>
>
>As the moderator and owner, let it be known right now that I don't
>care about "feelings". Anyone who wants warm fuzzies and emotional
>coddling can feel free to join this group:
>
>http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/oprah/
>
>As far as I can tell, there are a few things at work here on this
>list. First, the people who have been here the longest and still post
>frequently all have known eachother for a few years now. Some of us
>have even met in real life. Since we are the "in" crowd (being
>moderators and/or people who are in with the moderator crowd) we tend
>to not feel the need to "self-edit" our posts for the emotional
>security of others. We play rough. Another thing at play here is that
>most of the oldbies here are 1. guys, 2. guys who don't particularly
>worry about offending others, and 3. Quite independent, fairly
>cynical, and don't mince words. Some people take this as being
>insulting or being an outright attack on them. It isn't. We are a
>sarcastic bunch, but a pretty cool group once you get to know us,
>unless you are the sensitive type that feels that sarcasm is always
>mean and nasty. Don't expect us to put on velvet kid gloves when we
>post. I can't type with gloves anyway.
>
>Remember rule #4, which should have been read when anyone joins the list:
>
>4. Have a thick skin and do not take things
>personally. While we won't allow personal insults, you
>must be able to handle being told you are wrong,
>especially if you are wrong. No one on this email list
>is infallible. Similarly, you must be able to handle
>sarcasm. The moderators will not protect you if you
>whine. The easiest thing to do is just not take things
>personally. If you post a theory that does not fit with
>what is commonly known and accepted as history,
>then back up your ideas with sources OR face the wrath
>of the more knowledgeable. Save your tears.
>
>Some people may be insulted by this post and leave. Oh well. Don't let
> the door hit you on the way out, or strain your finger clicking the
>'leave this group' button, or whatever. For the rest of you who aren't
>too sensitive to the written word, keep on posting, keep on asking
>questions, and keep in mind that sarcasm is just because it is funny,
>it isn't an attack, and a lot of the time, you may think you are being
>attacked when all it is is just a straight answer. People here don't
>tend to wrap the truth in a warm silk blanket, with perfume and roses.
>Sometimes we hit bludgeon you with it. I understand that some people
>are touchy feely, and I have to put up with that in the real world.
>But this isn't the real world, this is MY world. That's what us
>in-group people have the perrogative to do. Consider it some minor
>hazing in order to get into the fraternity (although there are women
>too). I am not PC, and I could give a rat's ass about being PC. Put up
>with the hazing long enough, and you might find you accidentaly
>learned something. And after a while, you too may end up in the in
>crowd, and sit with us at the cool table in the cafeteria.
>You have been warned, fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your
>level of moral indignation) this is the way this place is run, so if
>you can handle it, you are super kewl. If not, Ted Nugent is
>dissapointed in you. And maybe I am too.
>
>And, for the record: I have only banned one person EVER for being
>combatitive, and that was because they were emotionaly erratic.
>
>And maybe most importantly, don't forget who you are dealing with:
>http://tinyurl.com/e2fck
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>

--- Paul Martin <pmartin6@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently saw a TV program that Ieyasu was able to
> take power because of
> the guns on Will Adams boat. I did not think this to
> be true, but another
> friend said that before Adams arrived they were
> using arquebus, and that
> Adams had introduced the flintlock. Can someone set
> me straight please?

Nope. The flintlock was introduced in Europe around
1630

From Wiki (though I hate to use them):

""Flintlock" is the general term for any firearm based
on the flintlock mechanism. The type is now obsolete.
Introduced about 1630, it rapidly replaced earlier
types, such as the matchlock and wheellock, and
continued in common use for over two centuries,
replaced by cap and cartridge-based systems. The last
major use of flintlocks in the Americas occurred in
the first years of the American Civil War; however, a
few guns of this type are still manufactured for black
powder enthusiasts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flintlock

I've read that some of the cannon from the ship Adams
arrived on were used at Sekigahara, but I don't recall
if this is myth or fact. However, I've never heard of
them being a decisive factor in any way. No other guns
from the ship would have made a difference, as the
Japanese had plenty themselves already.

Tony, any more info on the cannon, Mr. Sekigahara?

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Paul Martin wrote:

> I recently saw a TV program that Ieyasu was able to take power because of
> the guns on Will Adams boat. I did not think this to be true, but another
> friend said that before Adams arrived they were using arquebus, and that
> Adams had introduced the flintlock. Can someone set me straight please?

First of all, that TV program sounds like it was getting its
history from James Clavell's Shogun. That is a bad thing.

By 1600, there were thousands of matchlocks in use in Japan.
Adams ship probably didn't have more than a few dozen.

Secondarily, the flintlock was not introduced until sometime
around 1625-30. That's basic research that looking at any
encyclopedia article will show.

Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> Tony, any more info on the cannon, Mr. Sekigahara?

Not really, since I study samurai, and true samurai would
never stoop to using guns, especially cannons.


Tony ;)
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo

--- Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> > Tony, any more info on the cannon, Mr. Sekigahara?
>
> Not really, since I study samurai, and true samurai
> would
> never stoop to using guns, especially cannons.

You know how to hurt me, man. Ouch.

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--- Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> > Tony, any more info on the cannon, Mr. Sekigahara?
>
> Not really, since I study samurai, and true samurai
> would
> never stoop to using guns, especially cannons.

You know how to hurt me, man. Ouch.

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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> > Not really, since I study samurai, and true samurai
> > would
> > never stoop to using guns, especially cannons.
>
> You know how to hurt me, man. Ouch.

It's a gift. What can I say?

BTW, how's the little NotreDame Class of 2027 kid doing? You
gonna teach him to call you "chichi-ue"?

Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo

--- Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...> wrote:

> BTW, how's the little NotreDame Class of 2027 kid
> doing? You
> gonna teach him to call you "chichi-ue"?

That, or Oyakata-sama. That too stiff?

That brings up a point--I was watching something
(maybe an old episode of Hideyoshi, I can't remember)
and one character refers to his mother as what sounds
like "Haha-goze"....am I simply hearing a "Haha-ue"
wrong, or is there something else out there, like a "Haha-gozen"?

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Tony,

To steal the topic.....


The helmet arrive yet?


M.J. Peters/Mykaru

_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> From: Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...>
>
>
>BTW, how's the little NotreDame Class of 2027 kid doing? You
>gonna teach him to call you "chichi-ue"?
>

Better not teach him too much about the Sengooku-jidai ;) Unless you
named him Ran.

Omedetoo gozaimasu
Jim Eckman

Thanks, pretty much as I thought really. Can anyone expand on the cannon
theory though? Sounds interesting.

P

>From: Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New thread
>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:07:28 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>--- Paul Martin <pmartin6@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recently saw a TV program that Ieyasu was able to
> > take power because of
> > the guns on Will Adams boat. I did not think this to
> > be true, but another
> > friend said that before Adams arrived they were
> > using arquebus, and that
> > Adams had introduced the flintlock. Can someone set
> > me straight please?
>
>Nope. The flintlock was introduced in Europe around
>1630
>
>From Wiki (though I hate to use them):
>
>""Flintlock" is the general term for any firearm based
>on the flintlock mechanism. The type is now obsolete.
>Introduced about 1630, it rapidly replaced earlier
>types, such as the matchlock and wheellock, and
>continued in common use for over two centuries,
>replaced by cap and cartridge-based systems. The last
>major use of flintlocks in the Americas occurred in
>the first years of the American Civil War; however, a
>few guns of this type are still manufactured for black
>powder enthusiasts."
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flintlock
>
>I've read that some of the cannon from the ship Adams
>arrived on were used at Sekigahara, but I don't recall
>if this is myth or fact. However, I've never heard of
>them being a decisive factor in any way. No other guns
>from the ship would have made a difference, as the
>Japanese had plenty themselves already.
>
>Tony, any more info on the cannon, Mr. Sekigahara?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
>---
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>http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html
>
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>---
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- James Eckman <ronin_engineer@...> wrote:

> Better not teach him too much about the
> Sengooku-jidai ;) Unless you
> named him Ran.

Well, his middle name IS Eisuke...

> Omedetoo gozaimasu
> Jim Eckman

Doumo!



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--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> --- Anthony Bryant wrote:
> > BTW, how's the little NotreDame Class of 2027 kid
> > doing? You
> > gonna teach him to call you "chichi-ue"?
>
> That, or Oyakata-sama. That too stiff?
>
> That brings up a point--I was watching something
> (maybe an old episode of Hideyoshi, I can't remember)
> and one character refers to his mother as what sounds
> like "Haha-goze"....am I simply hearing a "Haha-ue"
> wrong, or is there something else out there, like a "Haha-gozen"?
>

I'm about 99% sure that was Akechi Mitsuhide in the Hideyoshi Taiga
Drama. Can't tell you what exactly he was saying or what it means, but
I am certain that is what you are thinking of.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
>
>
> --- James Eckman wrote:
>
> > Better not teach him too much about the
> > Sengooku-jidai ;) Unless you
> > named him Ran.
>
> Well, his middle name IS Eisuke...
>

"Ei" as in "Eigo"...?

--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

> I'm about 99% sure that was Akechi Mitsuhide in the
> Hideyoshi Taiga
> Drama. Can't tell you what exactly he was saying or
> what it means, but
> I am certain that is what you are thinking of.

It was, as a matter of fact. Good spot, and glad I'm
not the only one who thought he was chewing marbles
every time he talked to his mother.


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--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

> >
> > Well, his middle name IS Eisuke...
> >
>
>
> "Ei" as in "Eigo"...?

‰p‰î...yes. It's kind of an inside joke. We gave him
the middle name of my wife's host brother. It's just a
bonus that he gets the "Ei" from Eigo.

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"Thanks, pretty much as I thought really. Can anyone expand on the cannon theory though? Sounds interesting."

I had looked into this several months ago (the use or lack thereof of Tokugawa cannon at Sekigahara).
The Governor-general of Nagasaki (who was also in charge of Kioesjoe, where Adam's ship De Liefde landed) sent a Jesuit to inspect and inventory the ship. Among other things, they found 500 muskets and 19 (or 18, depending on the account) bronze guns (cannons). Ieyasu took the guns and cannon after his third interview with Adams. A later Jesuit account states that it was the 19 guns that provided the margin of victory at Sekigahara. However, none of Adam's letters mention the cannon being used and (aside from a short mention in one of Tony's Osprey samurai books) this was the only mention of the Tokugawa forces using cannon at Sekigahara I could find (although it's well documented that Ishida used several). I've never seen them mentioned in a Japanese source. Since the Jesuits were known to slant history for their own purposes, my opinion is that the account of the cannon being used was fabricated to show the 'menace' of Protestant traders in Japan.

Thanks Randy

>From: "Randy Schadel" <ayamechiba@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: New thread
>Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:51:40 -0000
>
>"Thanks, pretty much as I thought really. Can anyone expand on the cannon
>theory though? Sounds interesting."
>
>I had looked into this several months ago (the use or lack thereof of
>Tokugawa cannon at Sekigahara).
>The Governor-general of Nagasaki (who was also in charge of Kioesjoe, where
>Adam's ship De Liefde landed) sent a Jesuit to inspect and inventory the
>ship. Among other things, they found 500 muskets and 19 (or 18, depending
>on the account) bronze guns (cannons). Ieyasu took the guns and cannon
>after his third interview with Adams. A later Jesuit account states that it
>was the 19 guns that provided the margin of victory at Sekigahara. However,
>none of Adam's letters mention the cannon being used and (aside from a
>short mention in one of Tony's Osprey samurai books) this was the only
>mention of the Tokugawa forces using cannon at Sekigahara I could find
>(although it's well documented that Ishida used several). I've never seen
>them mentioned in a Japanese source. Since the Jesuits were known to slant
>history for their own purposes, my opinion is that the account of the
>cannon being used was fabricated to show the 'menace' of Protestant traders
>in Japan.
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>Join the 2006 Samurai Fiction contest:
>http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html
>
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
>---
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

御前　(Gozen) according to our Sanseido Kokugo Jiten, was a poetic
address for Middle Class ladies, the -N most often being dropped and
later was only commonly used in the address "Haha-goze." Honorable
Mother...
-t

I have finally seen a Nihonjin movie based on the samurai... Hmm if thats what we can call it. Oh I mean movie based on a samurai. If any one else has seen it what do you think about it.

Love, Grace, and Peace

Michael Peters <shdwstel@...> wrote:

Tony,

To steal the topic.....


The helmet arrive yet?


M.J. Peters/Mykaru

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can expand on the cannon theory. According to the account in Sir George Sansom's history of Japan (vol 2), weapons at Sekigahara were as followed:

"The firearms were called teppo and weapons under this general name were classified not by the calibre but by the weight of the shot fired, which ranged from about half an ounce to four ounces. Cannon at the time were not efficient. The fired shot of not more than two or three pounds, their range was short and they were unreliable. After Sekigahara guns were obtained from the English and Dutch traders and used to good effect at Osaka castle. (Appendix III p 413)

Paul Martin <pmartin6@...> wrote:
Thanks Randy

>From: "Randy Schadel" <ayamechiba@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: New thread
>Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:51:40 -0000
>
>"Thanks, pretty much as I thought really. Can anyone expand on the cannon
>theory though? Sounds interesting."
>
>I had looked into this several months ago (the use or lack thereof of
>Tokugawa cannon at Sekigahara).
>The Governor-general of Nagasaki (who was also in charge of Kioesjoe, where
>Adam's ship De Liefde landed) sent a Jesuit to inspect and inventory the
>ship. Among other things, they found 500 muskets and 19 (or 18, depending
>on the account) bronze guns (cannons). Ieyasu took the guns and cannon
>after his third interview with Adams. A later Jesuit account states that it
>was the 19 guns that provided the margin of victory at Sekigahara. However,
>none of Adam's letters mention the cannon being used and (aside from a
>short mention in one of Tony's Osprey samurai books) this was the only
>mention of the Tokugawa forces using cannon at Sekigahara I could find
>(although it's well documented that Ishida used several). I've never seen
>them mentioned in a Japanese source. Since the Jesuits were known to slant
>history for their own purposes, my opinion is that the account of the
>cannon being used was fabricated to show the 'menace' of Protestant traders
>in Japan.
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>Join the 2006 Samurai Fiction contest:
>http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html
>
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
>---
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- james wilson <johntwo8@...> wrote:

> I have finally seen a Nihonjin movie based on the
> samurai... Hmm if thats what we can call it. Oh I
> mean movie based on a samurai. If any one else has
> seen it what do you think about it.

You're going to need to be a little more specific,
like give us a title of the movie, or director, or
something. Telling us you've seen a movie about
samurai with Japanese people in it (which is what
"Nihonjin" means) and then asking us what we thought
is like a Japanese person saying "I saw a Hollywood
person with white people in it. What did you think of
the movie?"

In other words, we need the title of the movie to
answer your question.

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--- Tom Helm <junkmail@...> wrote:

> 蠕｡蜑阪��(Gozen) according to our Sanseido Kokugo
> Jiten, was a poetic
> address for Middle Class ladies, the -N most often
> being dropped and
> later was only commonly used in the address
> "Haha-goze." Honorable
> Mother...
> -t

Eureka! Thanks!

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--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- james wilson <johntwo8@...> wrote:
>
> > I have finally seen a Nihonjin movie based on the
> > samurai... Hmm if thats what we can call it. Oh I
> > mean movie based on a samurai. If any one else has
> > seen it what do you think about it.
>
> You're going to need to be a little more specific,
> like give us a title of the movie, or director, or
> something.

James, nevermind--I'm an idiot. I just saw the title
of the post. Sorry about that--next time, make sure
you try to include it in the body as well.

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Hi.

The kanji for squid is 烏賊

Hi.

> Ika is written only in hiragana. Katakana is usually reserved for
> words that did not originate in Japan or what we call borrowed words.

Although this is what people are taught, it is not actually true.
Katakana is used for words and speech which feels alien. For example
Doraimon and Arale-chan speak in hiragana while more mechanical looking
robots speak in katakana. Similarly, tabako is gairaigo ultimately
coming from North America but is written in hiragana. While on-yomi
readings are given in katakana in kanwajiten, on-yomi compounds such as
denwa are much more likely to be written in hiragana when they are not
written in kanji.

Hi.

> In theory anyway. In Japanese schools they teach katakana before
> hiragana
> (which really struck me as odd)  and I often saw things like trash
> bins
> (gomi) marked in katakana. Possibly one of the dictionaries is a
> learners
> dictionary and katakana is default.

Children often arrive in school already knowing hiragana through
playing with hiragana blocks or more traditionally playing irohagaruta.
Katakana is more upright while hiragana is derived from sosho (grass
script) and is inherently less formal. I still like hiragana more than
katakana. It is easier to read.

Fresh katsuo is yummy when it is in season. Basically, though, there
are conventions for lots of these things. イカ is pretty unambiguous as a
katakana words go. The alternative いか takes one more stroke to write,
and does not have a readability penalty. As you have probably been
told, カタカナ(片仮名) looks more masculine while ひらがな (平仮名) looks more
feminine.

Hi.

>    Please, To a person trying to learn to speak Japanese, Which is
> easest to
> learn? Katakana or Hiragana?   Irish Kee

With diligent practice, you can learn both of them in about a week to
ten days of part time study. However, hiragana will be of much greater
use to you than katakana, so I suggest that you learn it first.

Hi

> Personally, both are easy. However, I've determined
> I've got some rare form of dyslexia which only
> manifests itself when I'm forced to tell the diffence
> between the "tsu", "shi", "so", and "n" in katakana.

You are NOT dyslexic. ソ SO and ン N are practically identical with the
big difference being the direction in which one stroke is drawn.
Similarly, ツ TSU and シ SHI are very similar in appearance.
Here the difference is between the two small marks being arranged
horizontally or vertically.

--- Barbara Nostrand <nostrand@...> wrote:

> Hi
>
> > Personally, both are easy. However, I've
> determined
> > I've got some rare form of dyslexia which only
> > manifests itself when I'm forced to tell the
> diffence
> > between the "tsu", "shi", "so", and "n" in
> katakana.
>
> You are NOT dyslexic. ¥½ SO and ¥ó N are practically
> identical with the
> big difference being the direction in which one
> stroke is drawn.
> Similarly, ¥Ä TSU and ¥· SHI are very similar in
> appearance.
> Here the difference is between the two small marks
> being arranged
> horizontally or vertically.

Barbara, hi--

Wow, this is a bit of an old thread--it just dawned on
me that you were replying to me. Yes, I know I'm not
actually dyslexic--it was a bit tongue in cheek. My
wife actually does have mild dyslexia, so it certainly
wasn't meant to be insensitive (funnily enough, she
kicks my butt at reading/using katakana).

After 12 years of studying Japanese and living off and
on in Japan, I'm well aware of the differences between
the characters that you point out above. It's not a
lack of knowledge--hence why I describe it as a
"dyslexia". Sometimes my brain simply doesn't compute
the katakana word I'm looking at, even though I'd see
the same thing in hiragana and not miss a beat. For
instance, even though I've seen the word ･｢･�･ﾐ･､･ﾈ
1000 times since my Japanese 121 class 12 years ago,
it's entirely possible that 10% of the time I'd simply
blank when looking at it. More common, however, is
frustration when seeing a word I use daily in hiragana
or kanji, but spending a full minute to figure it out
because someone wrote it in katakana. Even though I
used to live within a 2 minute walk of it, if I
saw｡｡･隘隘ｮ･ｳ･ｦ･ｨ･�｡｡on a sign, it'd take me forever
to figure out it was the ﾂ蝪ｹﾌﾚｸ�ｱ� next to｡｡ﾌﾀｼ｣ｿﾀｵﾜ
where I used to walk my dogs.

To use an example in English--I don't have to sound
out "C-e-n-t-r-a-l P-a-r-k" to get a famous park in
New York--I just read the words "Central" and "Park".
Similarly, I don't have to stop and sound out
"､隍隍ｮ､ｳ､ｦ､ｨ､�｡ﾉor "ﾂ蝪ｹﾌﾚｸ�ｱ�", but I do have to
stop with ･隘隘ｮ･ｳ･ｦ･ｨ･�. As I said, it's not an issue
of being unfamiliar with the katakana characters--I
use them daily. I simply have some sort of "block"
with katakana, especially when I see a word I don't
immediately recognize.

And my wife laughs at me all the time for it.

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