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Musashi & Suburito

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#7944 [2005-10-24 17:53:55]

Musashi & Suburito

by samurai_iaijutsu

Guys,

Does anyone know the true story of Musashi when he was about to duel
with Sasaki Kojiro. He was on the small boat and made a bokken (later
called suburito) from an oar?

On the movie starring Mifune, he was actually bringing his sword but he
picked an oar to use for the duel as he was asked by the boat-man, why
do you make a bokken and not use your sword? Musashi said: "I like the
size". While other source on website saying the Musashi actually forgot
his sword and he had to make a bokken from an oar.

Here is the excerpt from the site: "Musashi Miyamoto, arguably Japan's
greatest swordsman, overslept one morning. He was due to meet one of his
many challengers and was already running late. As he bolted from his bed
to the door, he, incredibly, forgot his sword!! Hastily, he boarded the
small boat that was to take him to a small island (sandbar) where his
armed opponent awaited him anxiously. Realizing his predicament along
the way, he grabbed one of the boat's oars and, with a small knife,
began whittling a crudely-shaped katana from it. Arriving at his
destination, Musashi greeted his adversary. The man laughed and
confidently drew his weapon and attacked the awaiting Musashi. With a
swift series of graceful movements, Musashi expertly defended himself
and quickly dispatched the over-zealous opponent by crushing his
skull!!! ... and so was born the Suburito."

The question is, did Musashi actually forget his sword and have to make
a bokken from an oar or did he actually like the size of the oar and
prefer using it to using his sword?

Thanks.

Totok Sudarijanto
http://www.mjer.org
email: totok.sudarijanto@...

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them."

[Next #7948]

#7948 [2005-10-25 06:02:04]

Re: Musashi & Suburito

by thomas_tessera

> Guys,
>
> Does anyone know the true story of Musashi when he was about to duel
> with Sasaki Kojiro?"

Short answer - no - no-one knows, as there are no records of the duel.

That a duelist should forget his weapon is patent nonsense, and shows
how a myth collects in time.

One aspect of the duel often ignored is the psychological ploys
employed to unsettle one's opponent. Musashi employed them (from what
we read), such as arriving early and waiting in ambush, arriving late,
etc.

Other swordsmen used similar techniques - Nobutsuna Kamiizumi once
asked an opponent to wait until a student had arrived.

Toda Seigan faced an opponent with a bokken, so the man put away his
sword and used a bokken too, not to be out-done. Seigan then put down
the bokken and picked up a stick.

I have read somewhere that there is a view that Musashi had his
students waiting in hiding on the island, and it was they who ambushed
and killed Kojiro.

Thomas

[Previous #7944] [Next #7952]

#7952 [2005-10-25 15:21:56]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Musashi & Suburito

by ahelly69

Off course exist records about that fight. Several years after the death of Musashi was wrote a compilation with the testimonies of the witnesses of this event. The book was called "Niten-Ki", the first biography of Musashi. In the book one of the chapters had a info about Musashi, accord this text he had both swords in the duel.

He left the Daito in the boat and took the Shoto and the Suburito with him. In the fight he just used the Suburito.

I have a resume of this book but in spanish and my english is bad.

Best regards,

Helly


Thomas Davidson <tom.davidson@...> escribió:
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone know the true story of Musashi when he was about to duel
> with Sasaki Kojiro?"

Short answer - no - no-one knows, as there are no records of the duel.

That a duelist should forget his weapon is patent nonsense, and shows
how a myth collects in time.

One aspect of the duel often ignored is the psychological ploys
employed to unsettle one's opponent. Musashi employed them (from what
we read), such as arriving early and waiting in ambush, arriving late,
etc.

Other swordsmen used similar techniques - Nobutsuna Kamiizumi once
asked an opponent to wait until a student had arrived.

Toda Seigan faced an opponent with a bokken, so the man put away his
sword and used a bokken too, not to be out-done. Seigan then put down
the bokken and picked up a stick.

I have read somewhere that there is a view that Musashi had his
students waiting in hiding on the island, and it was they who ambushed
and killed Kojiro.

Thomas





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#7955 [2005-10-26 19:00:37]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Musashi & Suburito

by samurai_iaijutsu

Helly Angel wrote:

> Off course exist records about that fight. Several years after the
> death of Musashi was wrote a compilation with the testimonies of the
> witnesses of this event. The book was called "Niten-Ki", the first
> biography of Musashi. In the book one of the chapters had a info about
> Musashi, accord this text he had both swords in the duel.
>
> He left the Daito in the boat and took the Shoto and the Suburito with
> him. In the fight he just used the Suburito.
>
> I have a resume of this book but in spanish and my english is bad.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Helly

Did Musashi invent the suburito or it already existed long before
musashi was born?

Totok Sudarijanto
http://www.mjer.org
email: totok.sudarijanto@...

"The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them."

[Previous #7952] [Next #8047]

#8047 [2005-11-27 08:44:29]

Re: Musashi & Suburito

by qin_affs

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Totok Sudarijanto
wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone know the true story of Musashi when he was about to duel
> with Sasaki Kojiro. He was on the small boat and made a bokken (later
> called suburito) from an oar?
>
> On the movie starring Mifune, he was actually bringing his sword but he
> picked an oar to use for the duel as he was asked by the boat-man, why
> do you make a bokken and not use your sword? Musashi said: "I like the
> size". While other source on website saying the Musashi actually forgot
> his sword and he had to make a bokken from an oar.
>
> Here is the excerpt from the site: "Musashi Miyamoto, arguably Japan's
> greatest swordsman, overslept one morning. He was due to meet one of
his
> many challengers and was already running late. As he bolted from his
bed
> to the door, he, incredibly, forgot his sword!! Hastily, he boarded the
> small boat that was to take him to a small island (sandbar) where his
> armed opponent awaited him anxiously. Realizing his predicament along
> the way, he grabbed one of the boat's oars and, with a small knife,
> began whittling a crudely-shaped katana from it. Arriving at his
> destination, Musashi greeted his adversary. The man laughed and
> confidently drew his weapon and attacked the awaiting Musashi. With a
> swift series of graceful movements, Musashi expertly defended himself
> and quickly dispatched the over-zealous opponent by crushing his
> skull!!! ... and so was born the Suburito."
>
> The question is, did Musashi actually forget his sword and have to make
> a bokken from an oar or did he actually like the size of the oar and
> prefer using it to using his sword?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Totok Sudarijanto
> http://www.mjer.org
> email: totok.sudarijanto@m...
>
> "The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them."
>


I would recomend a book i just recently read, its called:
The Lone Samurai, The life of Miyamoto Musashi.
Writen by WIlliam Scott Wilson.

It covers a lot of the aspects of Musashi's live from his duels to his
skills in painting. It also mentioned conflicting informations etc.

If you like to read more about the real man thats a place to start.

Qin

[Previous #7955] [Next #8051]

#8051 [2005-11-29 03:35:44]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Musashi & Suburito

by intelligentkaratefan

Dear Totok san,
I hope I have your name right.The story I remember was Musashi knew his younger opponent was perhaps a more skilled swords man than him self .He purposefully kept his opponent waiting as a sign of disrespect.He also knew the exact length of his opponents blade and fashioned a boken out of an ore a few inches longer than his opponents blade .As his younger now impatient opponent rushed in he threw his saya away to which Musashi added the words as a spur 'that's right throw it away you won't need it where you're going.'The opponent was subsequently slain by the longer reach of Musashi's weapon and his own impatience . This clearly demonstrates many percepts contained in the book of five rings from knowing your opponent to knowing the lay of the land to applying strategy and more .Unfortunately I cannot quote any sources with any veracity.Hope this helps any way.
Yours in bu do
Rob

qin_affs <fhij@...> wrote:
--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Totok Sudarijanto
wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone know the true story of Musashi when he was about to duel
> with Sasaki Kojiro. He was on the small boat and made a bokken (later
> called suburito) from an oar?
>
> On the movie starring Mifune, he was actually bringing his sword but he
> picked an oar to use for the duel as he was asked by the boat-man, why
> do you make a bokken and not use your sword? Musashi said: "I like the
> size". While other source on website saying the Musashi actually forgot
> his sword and he had to make a bokken from an oar.
>
> Here is the excerpt from the site: "Musashi Miyamoto, arguably Japan's
> greatest swordsman, overslept one morning. He was due to meet one of
his
> many challengers and was already running late. As he bolted from his
bed
> to the door, he, incredibly, forgot his sword!! Hastily, he boarded the
> small boat that was to take him to a small island (sandbar) where his
> armed opponent awaited him anxiously. Realizing his predicament along
> the way, he grabbed one of the boat's oars and, with a small knife,
> began whittling a crudely-shaped katana from it. Arriving at his
> destination, Musashi greeted his adversary. The man laughed and
> confidently drew his weapon and attacked the awaiting Musashi. With a
> swift series of graceful movements, Musashi expertly defended himself
> and quickly dispatched the over-zealous opponent by crushing his
> skull!!! ... and so was born the Suburito."
>
> The question is, did Musashi actually forget his sword and have to make
> a bokken from an oar or did he actually like the size of the oar and
> prefer using it to using his sword?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Totok Sudarijanto
> http://www.mjer.org
> email: totok.sudarijanto@m...
>
> "The ultimate aim of martial arts is not having to use them."
>


I would recomend a book i just recently read, its called:
The Lone Samurai, The life of Miyamoto Musashi.
Writen by WIlliam Scott Wilson.

It covers a lot of the aspects of Musashi's live from his duels to his
skills in painting. It also mentioned conflicting informations etc.

If you like to read more about the real man thats a place to start.

Qin







---
Join the 2006 Samurai Fiction contest:
http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon2.html

Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
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#8054 [2005-12-01 12:47:30]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Musashi & Suburito

by tutor2000

--- Rob Konicanin <rk_cochise@...> wrote:

> Dear Totok san,
> I hope I have your name
> right.The story I remember was Musashi knew his
> younger opponent was perhaps a more skilled swords
> man than him self .He purposefully kept his opponent
> waiting as a sign of disrespect.He also knew the
> exact length of his opponents blade and fashioned a
> boken out of an ore a few inches longer than his
> opponents blade .As his younger now impatient
> opponent rushed in he threw his saya away to which
> Musashi added the words as a spur 'that's right
> throw it away you won't need it where you're
> going.'The opponent was subsequently slain by the
> longer reach of Musashi's weapon and his own
> impatience . This clearly demonstrates many percepts
> contained in the book of five rings from knowing
> your opponent to knowing the lay of the land to
> applying strategy and more .Unfortunately I cannot
> quote any sources with any veracity.Hope this helps
> any way.
> Yours in bu do
> Rob

I saw the mini-series on him. That's about how they
described it. In the mini-series I believe he was late
so he could catch the tide out from the assasins
waiting to kill him if he won

rick

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