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#7668 [2005-09-16 02:42:21]

Who was...

by davyent

Thank you for registering me with your excellent educating web. i really enjoy history and one of my favorate is about he samurais.

Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and what did he do in japan? what was his relationship with Katsumoto a samurai?


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[Next #7670]

#7670 [2005-09-16 03:32:32]

Re: Who was...

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, david yentebsin
wrote:
> Thank you for registering me with your excellent educating web. i
really enjoy history and one of my favorate is about he samurais.
>
> Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and what did he do in
japan? what was his relationship with Katsumoto a samurai?
>
>

You would have to watch "The Last Samurai" for answers to that, since
that is the only place such people exist.

[Previous #7668] [Next #7671]

#7671 [2005-09-16 05:08:08]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who was...

by deanwayland

Hi David,

In message <20050916094221.55438.qmail@...>,
david yentebsin <davyent@...> writes
>Thank you for registering me with your excellent educating web. i really enjoy
>history and one of my favorate is about he samurais.
>
>Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and what did he do in japan? what
>was his relationship with Katsumoto a samurai?

I'm sorry to say, that these are purely fictional characters, from the
movie "The Last Samurai". Katsumoto is a stand-in for Saigo Takamori,
the real historical person, who has been described as "the last true
samurai". The film is nothing like the history. Likewise, no American
samurai either. This was just a viewpoint character to enable westerners
to glimpse Japanese culture, or at least Hollywood's version of it.

Anyway, see this short piece on Saigo Takamori:
http://www.jref.com/glossary/saigo_takamori.shtml

And for more info on the samurai in general go to:
http://www.samurai-archives.com/index.html

Hope this helps.

Yours

Dean
***
Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

[Previous #7670] [Next #7674]

#7674 [2005-09-16 06:37:20]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Who was...

by ltdomer98

--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, david
> yentebsin
> wrote:
> > Thank you for registering me with your excellent
> educating web. i
> really enjoy history and one of my favorate is about
> he samurais.
> >
> > Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and
> what did he do in
> japan? what was his relationship with Katsumoto a
> samurai?
> >
> >
>
> You would have to watch "The Last Samurai" for
> answers to that, since
> that is the only place such people exist.

What Kitsuno is gruffly saying is that Nathan Algren
and Katsumoto are fictitious--neither existed.





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#7675 [2005-09-16 03:41:55]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who was...

by umaryu

HI

he was a fictional character in a movie called teh
last samurai.

thats all he was

paul



--- david yentebsin <davyent@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Thank you for registering me with your excellent
educating web. i really enjoy history and one of my
favorate is about he samurais.

Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and what
did he do in japan? what was his relationship with
Katsumoto a samurai?


---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief
effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Previous #7674] [Next #7676]

#7676 [2005-09-16 07:57:14]

prize-fighting

by samurai_iaijutsu

Does anyone here have any article talking about prize-fighting for samurai?

Thanks.
Regards,

<http://www.mjer.org/>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7675] [Next #7678]

#7678 [2005-09-16 12:15:12]

RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by ninaboal21044

-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Totok Sudarijanto
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:57 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

Does anyone here have any article talking about prize-fighting for samurai?

Thanks.
Regards,

<http://www.mjer.org/>
--------------------------------------------

I have the name of a site that discusses matches performed by ex-samurai
after the Meiji reformation. They engaged in prize-fight sorts of matches.
This particular article discusses female ex-samurai in particular and the
development of various schools of naginata. But the article discusses these
matches. Here would be the relavant section of the article.

http://koryu.com/library/wwj4.html

-------------------------------
In the early Meiji period, there was another impetus for the development of
competitive martial sports This was the phenomenon of roving martial
"carnivals" known as gekken kogyo (gekken means "attacking sword"; kogyo
means "a show"). Some former samurai, down on their luck, joined forces in
traveling exhibitions, giving demonstrations and taking challenges from the
audiences. Mounting the stage, fighters would challenge all comers from the
audience, using wooden or bamboo swords, naginata, spear, chain-and-sickle,
or any other weapon selected by the challenger. These fights were very
popular and well written up in the newspapers. Although the fighters
probably tried to exert some control, there were many injuries. In addition
to challenge matches, members of the troop would engage each other in
"combat," and among the most popular would be a woman with a wooden naginata
against a man armed with a wooden or bamboo replica of a sword.
-------------------------------

As for during the actual samurai eras (before 1868): I know that there were
incidences of "dojo crashing" which have been portrayed in various samurai
movies (chambara). Other than that, I know very little.

Hope this helps, Nina

[Previous #7676] [Next #7679]

#7679 [2005-09-16 14:48:00]

RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by samurai_iaijutsu

Thanks. Actually I was looking for the reason why prize-fighting was
dishonor for samurai to engage in before the meiji restoration. Can you help
me on this? How true is this?

Thanks again.

_____

From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Boal, Nina
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:15 AM
To: 'samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting



-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Totok Sudarijanto
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:57 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

Does anyone here have any article talking about prize-fighting for samurai?

Thanks.
Regards,


--------------------------------------------

I have the name of a site that discusses matches performed by ex-samurai
after the Meiji reformation. They engaged in prize-fight sorts of matches.
This particular article discusses female ex-samurai in particular and the
development of various schools of naginata. But the article discusses these
matches. Here would be the relavant section of the article.

http://koryu.com/library/wwj4.html

-------------------------------
In the early Meiji period, there was another impetus for the development of
competitive martial sports This was the phenomenon of roving martial
"carnivals" known as gekken kogyo (gekken means "attacking sword"; kogyo
means "a show"). Some former samurai, down on their luck, joined forces in
traveling exhibitions, giving demonstrations and taking challenges from the
audiences. Mounting the stage, fighters would challenge all comers from the
audience, using wooden or bamboo swords, naginata, spear, chain-and-sickle,
or any other weapon selected by the challenger. These fights were very
popular and well written up in the newspapers. Although the fighters
probably tried to exert some control, there were many injuries. In addition
to challenge matches, members of the troop would engage each other in
"combat," and among the most popular would be a woman with a wooden naginata
against a man armed with a wooden or bamboo replica of a sword.
-------------------------------

As for during the actual samurai eras (before 1868): I know that there were
incidences of "dojo crashing" which have been portrayed in various samurai
movies (chambara). Other than that, I know very little.

Hope this helps, Nina


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[Previous #7678] [Next #7681]

#7681 [2005-09-17 09:06:25]

Re: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by ninaboal21044

In a message dated 09/16/2005 10:52:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
totoks@... writes:

> Thanks. Actually I was looking for the reason why prize-fighting was
> dishonor for samurai to engage in before the meiji restoration. Can you
help
> me on this? How true is this?
>
> Thanks again.
>

There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE RAIN, which deals with
this subject. I forget the director but it's not really a sword-slashing
"chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what kenjutsu/kendo actually is. It's
available fairly widely with English subtitles.

The plot of AFTER THE RAIN basically involves a ronin and his wife who are
traveling as he is looking for work. It turns out that he had made some income
in the past by engaging in "prize fighting" also known as "dojo crashing."
Though you will see in watching the film that this ronin had a different approach
rather than the usual brash, outrageous sort of approach because this man is
quite self-effacing.

At any rate, the local daimyo finds out about this man and offers him an
interview for an open position he has in his clan of being a kendo instructor for
the clan. The ronin comes for the interview and in the process, the daimyo
finds out that he had engaged in "prize fighting" in the past and decides not to
take him into the clan. So yes, "prize fighting" was considered a dishonor.
The film goes on, and I'll let people watch it to find out what eventually
happens.

I gather from this that "prize fighting" was considered a dishonor in the
same way that offering your sword services for hire was considered a dishonor.
The samurai was supposed to offer his sword skills freely, without consideration
for monetary gain, in service to his lord. That was the ethic of the day.

Of course this ethic didn't provide for any ronin who had lost his lord or
else had been dismissed by his lord from his position -- how are they supposed
to survive? But then it was usually considered a dishonor to have become a
ronin, without a lord. So there really weren't provisions made for them in
feudal society, particularly Tokugawa-era society. The ronin just had to somehow
carry on the best as they could. So frequently, despite the stigma, they were
forced to offer up their sword skills for money or else engage in "prize
fighting."

During the Sengoku era, many samurai lost their lords. Some of them were able
to get positions within other clans because there were many battles and a
good swordsman, even one without a lord, would be welcomed into a clan, where he
could acquire a new lord to serve as a samurai. With the advent of the
Tokugawa period, there were far fewer opportunities, almost none, to acquire a new
position with a new clan once a samurai had lost his lord.

Hope this helps a bit. Nina

[Previous #7679] [Next #7682]

#7682 [2005-09-17 07:42:57]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who was...

by chunjouonimusha

Yes! But don't tell Tom Cruise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7681] [Next #7684]

#7684 [2005-09-17 09:27:49]

Re: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by umaryu

--- nohit@... wrote:


---------------------------------
In a message dated 09/16/2005 10:52:14 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
totoks@... writes:

> Thanks. Actually I was looking for the reason why
prize-fighting was
> dishonor for samurai to engage in before the meiji
restoration. Can you
help
> me on this? How true is this?
>
> Thanks again.
>

There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE
RAIN, which deals with
this subject. I forget the director but it's not
really a sword-slashing
"chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what
kenjutsu/kendo actually is. It's
available fairly widely with English subtitles.

The plot of AFTER THE RAIN basically involves a ronin
and his wife who are
traveling as he is looking for work. It turns out that
he had made some income
in the past by engaging in "prize fighting" also known
as "dojo crashing."
Though you will see in watching the film that this
ronin had a different approach
rather than the usual brash, outrageous sort of
approach because this man is
quite self-effacing.

At any rate, the local daimyo finds out about this man
and offers him an
interview for an open position he has in his clan of
being a kendo instructor for
the clan. The ronin comes for the interview and in the
process, the daimyo
finds out that he had engaged in "prize fighting" in
the past and decides not to
take him into the clan. So yes, "prize fighting" was
considered a dishonor.
The film goes on, and I'll let people watch it to find
out what eventually
happens.

I gather from this that "prize fighting" was
considered a dishonor in the
same way that offering your sword services for hire
was considered a dishonor.
The samurai was supposed to offer his sword skills
freely, without consideration
for monetary gain, in service to his lord. That was
the ethic of the day.

Of course this ethic didn't provide for any ronin who
had lost his lord or
else had been dismissed by his lord from his position
-- how are they supposed
to survive? But then it was usually considered a
dishonor to have become a
ronin, without a lord. So there really weren't
provisions made for them in
feudal society, particularly Tokugawa-era society.
The ronin just had to somehow
carry on the best as they could. So frequently,
despite the stigma, they were
forced to offer up their sword skills for money or
else engage in "prize
fighting."

During the Sengoku era, many samurai lost their lords.
Some of them were able
to get positions within other clans because there were
many battles and a
good swordsman, even one without a lord, would be
welcomed into a clan, where he
could acquire a new lord to serve as a samurai. With
the advent of the
Tokugawa period, there were far fewer opportunities,
almost none, to acquire a new
position with a new clan once a samurai had lost his
lord.

Hope this helps a bit. Nina


HI

the sworsmanship in the this movie was choreographed
by Otake sensei the shihanke of the Katori Shinto Ryu
which is famous for its swordsmanship

paul


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[Previous #7682] [Next #7685]

#7685 [2005-09-17 22:26:31]

RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by samurai_iaijutsu

HI

the sworsmanship in the this movie was choreographed
by Otake sensei the shihanke of the Katori Shinto Ryu
which is famous for its swordsmanship

paul



I thought it was Iaido/Iaijutsu since the ronin quite often practices his
iaido/iaijutsu kata while waiting for the rain to stop and on his journey in
the last minutes of the movie. But I really don't know his iaido/iaijutsu
style.

Totok Sudarijanto
http://www.mjer.org
totoks@...>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7684] [Next #7686]

#7686 [2005-09-17 22:27:48]

RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting

by samurai_iaijutsu

There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE RAIN, which deals with
this subject. I forget the director but it's not really a sword-slashing
"chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what kenjutsu/kendo actually
is. It's
available fairly widely with English subtitles.


Hope this helps a bit. Nina


I watched this film actually, and this movie that ignited my question. :-)

Thanks a lot for the explanation. Totok S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7685] [Next #7687]

#7687 [2005-09-17 22:32:32]

RE: [samuraihistory] prize-fighting => talking about good movie

by samurai_iaijutsu

There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE RAIN, which deals with
this subject. I forget the director but it's not really a sword-slashing
"chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what kenjutsu/kendo actually
is. It's
available fairly widely with English subtitles.


Hope this helps a bit. Nina


Talking about good movie, have you watched "when the last sword is drawn"?
This is a good movie too (at least that what i think).

here is the synopsis:
kanichiro Yoshimura is a family man and a samurai who can no longer feed his
wife and children due to the low wages paid by his small town clan.
Reluctantly, he decides to leave his loved ones and heads to the city to
join the large and renowned samurai faction, the Shinsen-gumi. Here he is
forced into a difficult existence during one of the most tumultuous times in
Japanese history. This wonderful gem of Japanese cinema is directed by
Yojiro Takita and written by Asada Jiro.

Totok S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7686] [Next #7688]

#7688 [2005-09-19 06:14:24]

Re: prize-fighting => talking about good movie

by shikisokuzekukusokuzeshiki8

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Totok Sudarijanto"
wrote:
> There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE RAIN, which
deals with
> this subject. I forget the director but it's not really a sword-
slashing
> "chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what kenjutsu/kendo
actually
> is. It's
> available fairly widely with English subtitles.
>
>
> Hope this helps a bit. Nina
>
>
> Talking about good movie, have you watched "when the last sword
is drawn"?
> This is a good movie too (at least that what i think).
>
> here is the synopsis:
> kanichiro Yoshimura is a family man and a samurai who can no
longer feed his
> wife and children due to the low wages paid by his small town clan.
> Reluctantly, he decides to leave his loved ones and heads to the
city to
> join the large and renowned samurai faction, the Shinsen-gumi.
Here he is
> forced into a difficult existence during one of the most
tumultuous times in
> Japanese history. This wonderful gem of Japanese cinema is
directed by
> Yojiro Takita and written by Asada Jiro.
>
> Totok S
>
>

The movie is called "Mibu Gishi Den" in Japan.
Official site
http://www.shochiku.co.jp/mibugishi/

[Previous #7687] [Next #7689]

#7689 [2005-09-19 10:46:45]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: prize-fighting => talking about good movie

by demerp1

Nina, I would like to buy the movie after the rain but I cannot find it. Do you know where I can find it?

Thank you very much in advance

Pin



shikisokuzekukusokuzeshiki8 <tonchamon@...> wrote:
--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Totok Sudarijanto"
wrote:
> There is a film, quite good. It's called AFTER THE RAIN, which
deals with
> this subject. I forget the director but it's not really a sword-
slashing
> "chambara film," it's a thoughtful film about what kenjutsu/kendo
actually
> is. It's
> available fairly widely with English subtitles.
>
>
> Hope this helps a bit. Nina
>
>
> Talking about good movie, have you watched "when the last sword
is drawn"?
> This is a good movie too (at least that what i think).
>
> here is the synopsis:
> kanichiro Yoshimura is a family man and a samurai who can no
longer feed his
> wife and children due to the low wages paid by his small town clan.
> Reluctantly, he decides to leave his loved ones and heads to the
city to
> join the large and renowned samurai faction, the Shinsen-gumi.
Here he is
> forced into a difficult existence during one of the most
tumultuous times in
> Japanese history. This wonderful gem of Japanese cinema is
directed by
> Yojiro Takita and written by Asada Jiro.
>
> Totok S
>
>

The movie is called "Mibu Gishi Den" in Japan.
Official site
http://www.shochiku.co.jp/mibugishi/








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[Previous #7688] [Next #7690]

#7690 [2005-09-19 15:10:29]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: prize-fighting => talking about good movie

by ninaboal21044

In a message dated 09/19/2005 5:44:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
demerp1@... writes:

> Nina, I would like to buy the movie after the rain but I cannot find it.
Do
> you know where I can find it?
>
> Thank you very much in advance
>
> Pin
>

Contact samuraidvd at dvdinfo@... or else go to
www.samuraidvd.com. He should have a copy. If it's not listed on his site, email or phone him
(phone number is on the site) and he'll let you know about it.

Nina

[Previous #7689] [Next #7694]

#7694 [2005-09-20 12:06:22]

Re: [samuraihistory] Who was...

by davyent

I really appreciate you effort. i initially thought
the "Last Samurai" was based on a true story. Do you
know of any other films about Samurais that i can
watch?

--- Dean Wayland <dean@...>
wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> In message
>
<20050916094221.55438.qmail@...>,
> david yentebsin <davyent@...> writes
> >Thank you for registering me with your excellent
> educating web. i really enjoy
> >history and one of my favorate is about he
> samurais.
> >
> >Who was Nathan Algren (an american ex soldier and
> what did he do in japan? what
> >was his relationship with Katsumoto a samurai?
>
> I'm sorry to say, that these are purely fictional
> characters, from the
> movie "The Last Samurai". Katsumoto is a stand-in
> for Saigo Takamori,
> the real historical person, who has been described
> as "the last true
> samurai". The film is nothing like the history.
> Likewise, no American
> samurai either. This was just a viewpoint character
> to enable westerners
> to glimpse Japanese culture, or at least Hollywood's
> version of it.
>
> Anyway, see this short piece on Saigo Takamori:
> http://www.jref.com/glossary/saigo_takamori.shtml
>
> And for more info on the samurai in general go to:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/index.html
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Yours
>
> Dean
> ***
> Dean Wayland
> Head Of The Fight School
> http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
>
>


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[Previous #7690] [Next #7698]

#7698 [2005-09-23 06:12:31]

A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by samurai_deshi

There is also a realy good film
made by Steven Seagal called "Into the Sun"
the samurai sword action parts are so good.
here is the main story:
Travis Hunter (Steven Seagal) is an undercover agent
working to find out the assasination of a Japanese
politician. His discoveries find that a chinese triad,
a Japanese yakuza, and a burmese rebelist group
have joined together to take over Japan. So as usual
travis goes and stops tham one by one. He loses his
fiance and partner to the yakuza and the triad and
almost lost his new friend whose family was killed by
the same yakuza. But the movies real light comes when
Travis unsheaths his shinken and does brutal damage.
Into the Sun is a must see movie. I has Chinese kung
fu, a begining gun battle, and the best part, Samurai
swordsmanship at its best. I would highly recomend
this movie to any samurai lover.



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[Previous #7694] [Next #7699]

#7699 [2005-09-23 20:25:45]

Re: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by g3mneye

Hi there Samuel:
I'm sorry but this movie is out on DVD? I ask because I never heard of it.
Later,
Rod

Samuel Chee <samurai_deshi@...> wrote:
There is also a realy good film
made by Steven Seagal called "Into the Sun"
the samurai sword action parts are so good.
here is the main story:
Travis Hunter (Steven Seagal) is an undercover agent
working to find out the assasination of a Japanese
politician. His discoveries find that a chinese triad,
a Japanese yakuza, and a burmese rebelist group
have joined together to take over Japan. So as usual
travis goes and stops tham one by one. He loses his
fiance and partner to the yakuza and the triad and
almost lost his new friend whose family was killed by
the same yakuza. But the movies real light comes when
Travis unsheaths his shinken and does brutal damage.
Into the Sun is a must see movie. I has Chinese kung
fu, a begining gun battle, and the best part, Samurai
swordsmanship at its best. I would highly recomend
this movie to any samurai lover.



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[Previous #7698] [Next #7701]

#7701 [2005-09-23 20:57:36]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by samurai_iaijutsu

ROD PAVEZ wrote:
Hi there Samuel:
I'm sorry but this movie is out on DVD? I ask because I never heard of it.
Later,
Rod

Samuel Chee <samurai_deshi@...> wrote:
There is also a realy good film
made by Steven Seagal called "Into the Sun"
the samurai sword action parts are so good.
here is the main story:
Travis Hunter (Steven Seagal) is an undercover agent



Hi,

I've seen this movie (Into the Sun) on DVD, overall it's good but I
personally am more interested in the empty handed (aikido) techniques of
Steven Seagal in his movies than his samurai swordsmanship. I also never
heard that he has trained samurai swordsmanship exclusively other than those
included in his aikido mokuroku (or i may be wrong?).

However, this one is also good if you really like watching samurai movies:

Samurai Resurrection:
This is the story of a Christian martyr who is killed when the uprising he
is leading is put down. Vowing vengeance he returns from the dead and with
the help of other unhappy souls he tries to destroy the shogun responsible
for his death. Opposing him is swordsman Jubei, who has to fight his way
through the undead minions in order to stop the plot to bring chaos to the
world. (The Jubei character was a real person and shows up in other Japanese
tales) This is the second version of a historically based supernatural
novel. The earlier film starred Sonny Chiba and was an action packed film
that made very little sense but was fun to watch. Here we have a nice blend
of action and plot, then again maybe its too much plot. While this is an
excellent action film, though the larger implications of who some of the
characters really are was lost on me since I'm not as well versed in
Japanese history. This is a film that assumes you know the period that the
film takes place since it brings many real people and places into play. Who
ever put the DVD I saw together must have been aware of the need to be
informed on Japanese history and customs so they included, as part of the
subtitled track, helpful tidbits about terms and people and places. It helps
in the short term but by half way into the film I was feeling a bit lost.

Still this is a very good movie. The action is spectacular, the opening
castle assault is amazing, and the horror is scary, how the dead come back
will probably creep you out. This is a well thought out and well made
supernatural action film. I recommend it, with the understanding that you
may feel a bit lost (Though that's not a reason to pass this by since it is
a good film)


Totok Sudarijanto
http://www.samurai.or.id
email: totok.sudarijanto@...

"The ultimate aim of the martial arts is not having to use them."






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7699] [Next #7703]

#7703 [2005-09-23 23:12:18]

Re: A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, ROD PAVEZ wrote:
> Hi there Samuel:
> I'm sorry but this movie is out on DVD? I ask because I never heard
of it.
> Later,
> Rod
>

Yup, a quickie internet search shows it is out on DVD. It looks really
bad, but probably entertaining: CIA operative Travis Hunter (Steven
Seagal) gets the call to investigate the assassination of Tokyo's
governor. Raised by the yakuza, Hunter is forced to re-enter that
perilous underworld, where he discovers a terrorist ring spearheaded
by a yakuza leader with ties to the Chinese Mafia. Get ready for major
butt kicking as Hunter penetrates the yakuza's inner sanctum in this
direct-to-video thriller costarring Takao Osawa and William Atherton.

[Previous #7701] [Next #7704]

#7704 [2005-09-23 23:35:39]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by g3mneye

HI there:
While we are the subject of swords I have a question for anyone who might be able to answer it. I noticed that swords have something like a crest on the hilt and handle. Usually it is a dragon. Did they ever place anyother sort of animal or symbol on the swords?
Thanks,
Rod

Totok Sudarijanto <totoks@...> wrote:
ROD PAVEZ wrote:
Hi there Samuel:
I'm sorry but this movie is out on DVD? I ask because I never heard of it.
Later,
Rod

Samuel Chee <samurai_deshi@...> wrote:
There is also a realy good film
made by Steven Seagal called "Into the Sun"
the samurai sword action parts are so good.
here is the main story:
Travis Hunter (Steven Seagal) is an undercover agent



Hi,

I've seen this movie (Into the Sun) on DVD, overall it's good but I
personally am more interested in the empty handed (aikido) techniques of
Steven Seagal in his movies than his samurai swordsmanship. I also never
heard that he has trained samurai swordsmanship exclusively other than those
included in his aikido mokuroku (or i may be wrong?).

However, this one is also good if you really like watching samurai movies:

Samurai Resurrection:
This is the story of a Christian martyr who is killed when the uprising he
is leading is put down. Vowing vengeance he returns from the dead and with
the help of other unhappy souls he tries to destroy the shogun responsible
for his death. Opposing him is swordsman Jubei, who has to fight his way
through the undead minions in order to stop the plot to bring chaos to the
world. (The Jubei character was a real person and shows up in other Japanese
tales) This is the second version of a historically based supernatural
novel. The earlier film starred Sonny Chiba and was an action packed film
that made very little sense but was fun to watch. Here we have a nice blend
of action and plot, then again maybe its too much plot. While this is an
excellent action film, though the larger implications of who some of the
characters really are was lost on me since I'm not as well versed in
Japanese history. This is a film that assumes you know the period that the
film takes place since it brings many real people and places into play. Who
ever put the DVD I saw together must have been aware of the need to be
informed on Japanese history and customs so they included, as part of the
subtitled track, helpful tidbits about terms and people and places. It helps
in the short term but by half way into the film I was feeling a bit lost.

Still this is a very good movie. The action is spectacular, the opening
castle assault is amazing, and the horror is scary, how the dead come back
will probably creep you out. This is a well thought out and well made
supernatural action film. I recommend it, with the understanding that you
may feel a bit lost (Though that's not a reason to pass this by since it is
a good film)


Totok Sudarijanto
http://www.samurai.or.id
email: totok.sudarijanto@...

"The ultimate aim of the martial arts is not having to use them."






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Previous #7703] [Next #7705]

#7705 [2005-09-24 07:17:13]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by sengokudaimyo

Kitsuno wrote:

>
> Yup, a quickie internet search shows it is out on DVD. It looks really
> bad, but probably entertaining: CIA operative Travis Hunter (Steven
> Seagal) gets the call to investigate the assassination of Tokyo's
> governor. Raised by the yakuza, Hunter is forced to re-enter that
> perilous underworld, where he discovers a terrorist ring spearheaded
> by a yakuza leader with ties to the Chinese Mafia. Get ready for major
> butt kicking as Hunter penetrates the yakuza's inner sanctum in this
> direct-to-video thriller costarring Takao Osawa and William Atherton.

You GOTTA be kidding me. There's so much wrong there that... oy.


Tony

[Previous #7704] [Next #7706]

#7706 [2005-09-24 08:20:43]

RE: [samuraihistory] Re: A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by samurai_iaijutsu

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, ROD PAVEZ wrote:
> Hi there Samuel:
> I'm sorry but this movie is out on DVD? I ask because I never heard
of it.
> Later,
> Rod
>

In Indonesia even his latest film "Today You Die" Has been on DVD, I've just
seen it tonight. :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7705] [Next #7707]

#7707 [2005-09-24 01:01:31]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by umaryu

--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
HI there:
While we are the subject of swords I have a question
for anyone who might be able to answer it. I noticed
that swords have something like a crest on the hilt
and handle. Usually it is a dragon. Did they ever
place anyother sort of animal or symbol on the swords?
Thanks,
Rod

Hi

If your refering to the ornamanet under the hilt
binding that will be the Menuki. they come in all
shapes and sizes, dragons, shrimps, swords, ink
brushes, buddhist items, coins, fish.

On one of my Katana I have a rat sat on a piece of
wood with a rope on the wood, the rope and rat are
over layed in gold.

The subject has limitless objects that were used

paul




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[Previous #7706] [Next #7708]

#7708 [2005-09-24 09:01:55]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal

by chunjouonimusha

I have not seen this movie. Into the sun. I kinda shy away from the Segal
movies now. Ever since he suddenly became a 8th Dan. and Buddhist Monk all in
one swipe. LOL .
Not sure if everything in it is wrong, I may have to watch it with my son who
is coming home today; after being at sea for 6 months. Could be fun.

I would also be curious to see This sword?

Blessing to all. TTFN


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #7707] [Next #7713]

#7713 [2005-09-25 12:41:38]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by g3mneye

Hi:
Thanks for answering my question, Paul. I've got one last question that is if you want to answer it. Would the symbol of a phoenix be common on these swords?
Thanks for your time,
Rod

Paul Richardson <umaryu@...> wrote:
--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
HI there:
While we are the subject of swords I have a question
for anyone who might be able to answer it. I noticed
that swords have something like a crest on the hilt
and handle. Usually it is a dragon. Did they ever
place anyother sort of animal or symbol on the swords?
Thanks,
Rod

Hi

If your refering to the ornamanet under the hilt
binding that will be the Menuki. they come in all
shapes and sizes, dragons, shrimps, swords, ink
brushes, buddhist items, coins, fish.

On one of my Katana I have a rat sat on a piece of
wood with a rope on the wood, the rope and rat are
over layed in gold.

The subject has limitless objects that were used

paul




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[Previous #7708] [Next #7715]

#7715 [2005-09-25 13:01:37]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by umaryu

Hi

I havent a clue, you would need to ask someone like
Clive Sincliar about that one

paul


--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hi:
Thanks for answering my question, Paul. I've got one
last question that is if you want to answer it. Would
the symbol of a phoenix be common on these swords?
Thanks for your time,
Rod

Paul Richardson <umaryu@...> wrote:
--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
HI there:
While we are the subject of swords I have a question
for anyone who might be able to answer it. I noticed
that swords have something like a crest on the hilt
and handle. Usually it is a dragon. Did they ever
place anyother sort of animal or symbol on the swords?
Thanks,
Rod

Hi

If your refering to the ornamanet under the hilt
binding that will be the Menuki. they come in all
shapes and sizes, dragons, shrimps, swords, ink
brushes, buddhist items, coins, fish.

On one of my Katana I have a rat sat on a piece of
wood with a rope on the wood, the rope and rat are
over layed in gold.

The subject has limitless objects that were used

paul




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[Previous #7713] [Next #7718]

#7718 [2005-09-25 22:31:51]

RE: [samuraihistory] A must see movie (Into the Sun) Steven Seagal => Samurai Resurrection

by g3mneye

Thank you anyway.

Paul Richardson <umaryu@...> wrote:Hi

I havent a clue, you would need to ask someone like
Clive Sincliar about that one

paul


--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hi:
Thanks for answering my question, Paul. I've got one
last question that is if you want to answer it. Would
the symbol of a phoenix be common on these swords?
Thanks for your time,
Rod

Paul Richardson <umaryu@...> wrote:
--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
HI there:
While we are the subject of swords I have a question
for anyone who might be able to answer it. I noticed
that swords have something like a crest on the hilt
and handle. Usually it is a dragon. Did they ever
place anyother sort of animal or symbol on the swords?
Thanks,
Rod

Hi

If your refering to the ornamanet under the hilt
binding that will be the Menuki. they come in all
shapes and sizes, dragons, shrimps, swords, ink
brushes, buddhist items, coins, fish.

On one of my Katana I have a rat sat on a piece of
wood with a rope on the wood, the rope and rat are
over layed in gold.

The subject has limitless objects that were used

paul




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[Previous #7715] [Next #7721]

#7721 [2005-09-26 04:06:30]

Re: prize-fighting

by thomas_tessera

A late note on this topic.

As i understand it, a samurai's status is determined by his place in
the social hierarchy, so that in the case of two samurai of equal
status, a priority would be determined if the master of one was of a
superior status than the master of the other.

A samurai without employ is then 'cast adrift' in society, hence the
term ronin, he has no place at all, the only way is down. He becomes a
social pariah, is mistrusted and disliked, and someone turning up,
offering to fight for money, can only mean one thing ... trouble.

Let alone the insult of assuming that a samurai would fight for
something like ... money?

There is the added social stigma of losing to such a man. How can a
samurai hold his head high when he's been beaten by a beggar?

On the other hand, swordsmen of renown (or independent means) might
engage in a musa shugyo (musha shugyo?) which I have seen translated
as 'warrior pilgrimage'; 'dojo tour' and 'warrior way' ('michi', as
opposed to 'do').

It is recorded of Bokuden, for example, that he travelled in style, a
caravan of some 60-odd in attendance, the equivalent of a daimyo
procession. Nobutsuna Kamiizumi did the same.

In either case, the chance to engage in a friendly match with a master
can do one's reputation no harm, and there is always something to
learn. Both men would have been welcomed, even if technically 'ronin',
their reputations had won them social status.

Thomas

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