Significants of sageo knots.

Do the knots tied in the sageo on a traditional katana sword sheath
have any special meaning? I have seen some that are very intricate.
Also in some Japanese prints I see mounted samurai wearing a large
ring over their sword. What is it for?

First time post,
Michael M.

"Also in some Japanese prints I see mounted samurai wearing a large
ring over their sword. What is it for?"

What you're seeing is likely the reel samurai used for their spare
bowstrings.

Hi Michael,

>Do the knots tied in the sageo on a traditional katana sword sheath
>have any special meaning? I have seen some that are very intricate.

Not as far as I know, but they may have acquired meanings during or post
the Edo era, as so many things have done. But I could be wrong.

>Also in some Japanese prints I see mounted samurai wearing a large
>ring over their sword. What is it for?

This device is the "tsurumaki" or "bow-string wrap". It's used for
carrying a spare string for the bow. It is made with a deep channel
(circa 30mm deep) around the outer edge, so the string can be wrapped
within the trench and be protected by it. This is done because the tsuru
is coated in resin which means that you can't just stuff it away in a
pouch/pocket without it being possibly damaged. The resin which is to
some degree still fluid, flows away from creases, and you have to wipe
the crease smooth again before using it. And you really don't want to be
doing this in the middle of a battle! Tsurumaki can be made of rattan
(split vine), wood, or lacquered paper. They are normally suspended by a
strip of printed leather or other textile, from the obi (when worn with
a katana), or from the sword's waist cord (forgotten the name) in the
case of a tachi. Go here to see a couple of modern made rattan tsurumaki
as used in kyudo for a close up view:

http://www.coara.or.jp/~lucyfer/kyugu/accessories/tsurumaki33-e.html

Hope this is useful.

Yours

Dean
***

Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

Thank you Dean for explaining that to me. I would have never guessed
it was a spare bow string.
But no one has come forward to explain what the significants of the
sageo knots are yet.

Thanks again,
Michael M.
MANSFIELD ZEN SANGHA ON THE WEB AT:
http://home.earthlink.net/~zeninmansfield/

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Dean Wayland wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> >Do the knots tied in the sageo on a traditional katana sword
sheath
> >have any special meaning? I have seen some that are very
intricate.
>
> Not as far as I know, but they may have acquired meanings during or
post
> the Edo era, as so many things have done. But I could be wrong.
>
> >Also in some Japanese prints I see mounted samurai wearing a large
> >ring over their sword. What is it for?
>
> This device is the "tsurumaki" or "bow-string wrap". It's used for
> carrying a spare string for the bow. It is made with a deep channel
> (circa 30mm deep) around the outer edge, so the string can be
wrapped
> within the trench and be protected by it. This is done because the
tsuru
> is coated in resin which means that you can't just stuff it away in
a
> pouch/pocket without it being possibly damaged. The resin which is
to
> some degree still fluid, flows away from creases, and you have to
wipe
> the crease smooth again before using it. And you really don't want
to be
> doing this in the middle of a battle! Tsurumaki can be made of
rattan
> (split vine), wood, or lacquered paper. They are normally suspended
by a
> strip of printed leather or other textile, from the obi (when worn
with
> a katana), or from the sword's waist cord (forgotten the name) in
the
> case of a tachi. Go here to see a couple of modern made rattan
tsurumaki
> as used in kyudo for a close up view:
>
> http://www.coara.or.jp/~lucyfer/kyugu/accessories/tsurumaki33-e.html
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> Yours
>
> Dean
> ***
>
> Dean Wayland
> Head Of The Fight School
> http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

Hi Michael
I believe that the more intricate knots to which you refer are mainly used
when the sword is "at rest" on the katana-kake and is mainly decorative.
However, it is designed to come undone with a single pull if the sword was
needed in an emergency. This is known as cho-musubi (butterfly knot).
Daimyo-musubi is a simpler knot where a knot is tied close to the kurikata
and another is wrapped and knoted near the end of the saya. They are not
always easy to tie and new, stiff sageo make better and easier knots.
Regards
Clive Sinclaire

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Wayland" <dean@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Significants of sageo knots.


> Hi Michael,
>
> >Do the knots tied in the sageo on a traditional katana sword sheath
> >have any special meaning? I have seen some that are very intricate.
>
> Not as far as I know, but they may have acquired meanings during or post
> the Edo era, as so many things have done. But I could be wrong.
>
> >Also in some Japanese prints I see mounted samurai wearing a large
> >ring over their sword. What is it for?
>
> This device is the "tsurumaki" or "bow-string wrap". It's used for
> carrying a spare string for the bow. It is made with a deep channel
> (circa 30mm deep) around the outer edge, so the string can be wrapped
> within the trench and be protected by it. This is done because the tsuru
> is coated in resin which means that you can't just stuff it away in a
> pouch/pocket without it being possibly damaged. The resin which is to
> some degree still fluid, flows away from creases, and you have to wipe
> the crease smooth again before using it. And you really don't want to be
> doing this in the middle of a battle! Tsurumaki can be made of rattan
> (split vine), wood, or lacquered paper. They are normally suspended by a
> strip of printed leather or other textile, from the obi (when worn with
> a katana), or from the sword's waist cord (forgotten the name) in the
> case of a tachi. Go here to see a couple of modern made rattan tsurumaki
> as used in kyudo for a close up view:
>
> http://www.coara.or.jp/~lucyfer/kyugu/accessories/tsurumaki33-e.html
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> Yours
>
> Dean
> ***
>
> Dean Wayland
> Head Of The Fight School
> http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 8/16/2005 5:14:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zenronin@... writes:
www.coara.or.jp/~lucyfer/kyugu/accessories/tsurumaki33-e.html
Thanks fo the site and the information; this is somethig that I did not
know... excellent...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]