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#6702 [2005-02-23 17:30:18]

words

by g3mneye

Hi there everybody:

Just wondering if anyone knows of a good site where I can find the
translation for words and things from English to Japanese. I really
need to know how you would say fire in japanese.

Arigato,
G3mneye

[Next #6703]

#6703 [2005-02-23 18:23:43]

Re: words

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Rod Pavez"
wrote:
>
>
> Hi there everybody:
>
> Just wondering if anyone knows of a good site where I can find the
> translation for words and things from English to Japanese. I
really
> need to know how you would say fire in japanese.
>
> Arigato,
> G3mneye

Fire, as in "flame", is "hi", and fire as in "the house is on fire!"
is "Kaji".

[Previous #6702] [Next #6704]

#6704 [2005-02-23 19:26:13]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: words

by sengokudaimyo

Kitsuno wrote:


> Fire, as in "flame", is "hi", and fire as in "the house is on fire!"
> is "Kaji".

Don't forget honoo.

Tony


--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
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[Previous #6703] [Next #6705]

#6705 [2005-02-23 21:16:32]

Re: words

by raijin31

> Don't forget honoo.
>
> Tony

Tony,

You wouldn't happen to have that information on kura that you
promised me several months ago, would you?

Trace (Otoshi)

[Previous #6704] [Next #6706]

#6706 [2005-02-23 22:58:49]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: words

by g3mneye

Thank you

Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:Kitsuno wrote:


> Fire, as in "flame", is "hi", and fire as in "the house is on fire!"
> is "Kaji".

Don't forget honoo.

Tony


--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder




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[Previous #6705] [Next #6707]

#6707 [2005-02-24 09:53:18]

Other query (was: words)

by soshidaitaka

What word was used (during the Sengoku period if it makes a difference)
for a family or a clan? You know, the whole feudal pyramid structure
with a daimyo at the top? Simply looking at the dictionaries seems to
indicate 'batsu' but I would like some confirmation on this.

--
Falc

[Previous #6706] [Next #6708]

#6708 [2005-02-24 11:39:03]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query (was: words)

by ltdomer98

--- Falc <daitaka@...> wrote:

>
> What word was used (during the Sengoku period if it
> makes a difference)
> for a family or a clan? You know, the whole feudal
> pyramid structure
> with a daimyo at the top? Simply looking at the
> dictionaries seems to
> indicate 'batsu' but I would like some confirmation
> on this.
>

Where do you get "batsu"? I can think of a number of
meanings for "batsu" (X being one of them) but clan
isn't one of them. Most places I've seen "uji" ��.

Nate



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[Previous #6707] [Next #6712]

#6712 [2005-02-24 15:25:01]

Re: [samuraihistory] words

by cepooooo

On Feb 23, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Rod Pavez wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi there everybody:
>
> Just wondering if anyone knows of a good site where I can find the
> translation for words and things from English to Japanese. I really
> need to know how you would say fire in japanese.
>
> Arigato,
> G3mneye

http://kanjialive.lib.uchicago.edu/main.php?page=overview&lang=en

Anyway, they should have a dictionary at the library close to where you
live!!
cepo

[Previous #6708] [Next #6714]

#6714 [2005-02-24 13:54:56]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query (was: words)

by swiftnote

I don't know if this helps but:

Buke - Military house; family whose duties include the
bearing of arms -most often applied to those warrior
clans prior to and during the Gempei War (1180-85) but
in use into and beyond the Momoyama Period. Buke is
occasionally- and misleadingly- translated as
�equestrians�

Gokenin - A retainer/vassal family of the Kamakura
Bakufu, especially those who had served under Minamoto
Yoritomo; generally having a certain amount of
influence.

Ie - A household; family

I don't know if any of these will help or answer your
question just found them to hopefully aid. If not
then sorry to bother you.

Thank you for listening.







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[Previous #6712] [Next #6715]

#6715 [2005-02-24 19:59:30]

Re: Re: Re: words

by lost90804

>Don't forget honoo.
>
>
Utte? As in rifles.

Jim

[Previous #6714] [Next #6717]

#6717 [2005-02-24 16:56:07]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query (was: words)

by tls_phil

[Posted in UTF-8, so the kanji should show up properly]

Nate wrote:

> --- Falc <daitaka@...> wrote:
>
>> What word was used (during the Sengoku period if it makes a
>> difference) for a family or a clan? You know, the whole feudal
>> pyramid structure with a daimyo at the top? Simply looking at the
>> dictionaries seems to indicate 'batsu' but I would like some
>> confirmation on this.
>
> Where do you get "batsu"? I can think of a number of
> meanings for "batsu" (X being one of them) but clan
> isn't one of them. Most places I've seen "uji" ށ.

My guess is that he's thinking of 閥 (batsu; meaning clique, clan,
faction).

I'm not sure about specific Sengoku-era usage, but my Japanese books
on Sengoku history tend to favour "-shi" (氏: uji, shi) as a suffix
appended to the family name of the head of the clan. I also see "-ke"
(家: ie, ya, uchi, ka, ke) and occasionally "ichizoku" (一族) or the
"-zoku" part thereof used as a suffix, and even more rarely "ichimon"
(一門), but I'd be hard pressed to identify the subtle distinctions
those might have carried during the relevant time period.

The question, however, doesn't provide sufficient context to provide
an accurate answer.

Phil

[Previous #6715] [Next #6718]

#6718 [2005-02-24 20:52:11]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query (was: words)

by ltdomer98

--- Philippe <ptourigny@...> wrote:


> My guess is that he's thinking of ��� (batsu;
> meaning clique, clan,
> faction).

Gotcha. However, that's fairly obscure, and I don't
think I've ever seen it in the context presented.

> I'm not sure about specific Sengoku-era usage,
> but my Japanese books
> on Sengoku history tend to favour "-shi" (���: uji,
> shi) as a suffix
> appended to the family name of the head of the clan.

This is the "uji" I listed--I posted in Shift JIS, so
I apologize if you didn't see it. By itself, it can be
used to mean "the clan".

> I also see "-ke"
> (���: ie, ya, uchi, ka, ke) and occasionally
> "ichizoku" (������) or the
> "-zoku" part thereof used as a suffix, and even more
> rarely "ichimon"
> (������), but I'd be hard pressed to identify the
> subtle distinctions
> those might have carried during the relevant time
> period.

I second all of the above. :)




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#6720 [2005-02-24 21:00:04]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query

by soshidaitaka

Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> --- Falc <daitaka@...> wrote:
>
>
>>What word was used (during the Sengoku period if it
>>makes a difference)
>>for a family or a clan? You know, the whole feudal
>>pyramid structure
>>with a daimyo at the top? Simply looking at the
>>dictionaries seems to
>>indicate 'batsu' but I would like some confirmation
>>on this.
>>
>
>
> Where do you get "batsu"? I can think of a number of
> meanings for "batsu" (X being one of them) but clan
> isn't one of them. Most places I've seen "uji" ށ.
>
> Nate

(I hope this'll show up right...)


ON reading(s) バツ
English meanings clique; lineage; pedigree; faction; clan
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=95a5

(from Jim Breem's WWWJDIC)

When I searched there, it was one of the kanji that showed up most often
in the results.

Oh, and I'm guessing you tried entering the kanji for 'uji' there, but
something must have gone wrong along the way. Is this
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=6c0f
what you meant?

--
Falc /// ///
AKA Soshi Dai-Taka \_// /-//
\_/// /-//
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While holding the sword, I cannot embrace you \_////--\\
- Kubo Tite, Bleach volume 5 / __ \
/,)~_( \~~\\
http://homeusers.brutele.be/bvannitsen/ (/ \\ / \\\
// \/\
=====================================================((`=======

[Previous #6718] [Next #6721]

#6721 [2005-02-24 22:17:44]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query

by ltdomer98

--- Falc <daitaka@...> wrote:

> (I hope this'll show up right...)
>
> ���
> ON reading(s) ������
> English meanings clique; lineage; pedigree; faction;
> clan
>
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=95a5
> (from Jim Breem's WWWJDIC)
>
> When I searched there, it was one of the kanji that
> showed up most often
> in the results.
>
> Oh, and I'm guessing you tried entering the kanji
> for 'uji' there, but
> something must have gone wrong along the way. Is
> this
>
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=6c0f
> what you meant?

CRIMINY, what is with you people and UNICODE? LOL. If
you've got Japanese fonts installed, mine should have
shown up fine under Shift-JIS or Japanese
(Auto-Select). Unicode is completely impractical if
you actually type in Japanese, which I frequently do
(not all that WELL, mind you). Try adjusting your
encoding and you'll see it fine. There was no "tried"
there--I did.

Of course, I can also see your entries--I have to go
to Unicode to do so, though. And it completely messes
up every single webpage for a while. But to answer
your question, yes the link you provided is the one I
typed.







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[Previous #6720] [Next #6725]

#6725 [2005-02-24 23:00:29]

Re: Other query

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
> --- Falc wrote:
>
> > (I hope this'll show up right...)
> >
> > 髢・
> > ON reading(s) 繝舌ヤ
> > English meanings clique; lineage; pedigree; faction;
> > clan
> >
> http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=95a5
> > (from Jim Breem's WWWJDIC)
> >
> > When I searched there, it was one of the kanji that
> > showed up most often
> > in the results.
> >
> > Oh, and I'm guessing you tried entering the kanji
> > for 'uji' there, but
> > something must have gone wrong along the way. Is
> > this
> >
> http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=6c0f
> > what you meant?
>
> CRIMINY, what is with you people and UNICODE? LOL. If
> you've got Japanese fonts installed, mine should have
> shown up fine under Shift-JIS or Japanese
> (Auto-Select). Unicode is completely impractical if
> you actually type in Japanese, which I frequently do
> (not all that WELL, mind you). Try adjusting your
> encoding and you'll see it fine. There was no "tried"
> there--I did.
>
> Of course, I can also see your entries--I have to go
> to Unicode to do so, though. And it completely messes
> up every single webpage for a while. But to answer
> your question, yes the link you provided is the one I
> typed.
>

It came out fine in your original post under Shift-JIS for me.

[Previous #6721] [Next #6726]

#6726 [2005-02-24 23:10:57]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Other query

by ltdomer98

--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

>
> It came out fine in your original post under
> Shift-JIS for me.

Of course it did, you're not using Unicode. Not sure
why you would.



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[Previous #6725] [Next #6728]

#6728 [2005-02-25 00:48:57]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query

by soshidaitaka

Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> CRIMINY, what is with you people and UNICODE? LOL. If
> you've got Japanese fonts installed, mine should have
> shown up fine under Shift-JIS or Japanese
> (Auto-Select). Unicode is completely impractical if
> you actually type in Japanese, which I frequently do
> (not all that WELL, mind you). Try adjusting your
> encoding and you'll see it fine. There was no "tried"
> there--I did.

I did indeed see the kanji as you typed it after switching to shift-jis
encoding. The problem there was that I have three possible japanese
encodings, only one of which displays correctly, plus unicode. 4 checks
just to get one character... I haven't been getting enough sleep lately,
so I'll just blame it on that.

> Of course, I can also see your entries--I have to go
> to Unicode to do so, though. And it completely messes
> up every single webpage for a while. But to answer
> your question, yes the link you provided is the one I
> typed.

I copy/pasted my entries from the website. Apparently Thunderbird
automatically turned my entire message into utf-8 after that, probably
because the site was in unicode. I have next to no experience typing
japanese, so I don't really know what would have happened had I typed it.

--
Falc

[Previous #6726] [Next #6747]

#6747 [2005-02-27 02:03:30]

Re: [samuraihistory] Other query

by tls_phil

[UTF-8 again, more on that below]

Nate wrote:

[Batsu --> 閥]
> Gotcha. However, that's fairly obscure, and I don't
> think I've ever seen it in the context presented.

The wonders of online dictionaries like EDICT is that it allows
anyone with even rudimentary surfing skills to stumble upon out of
context obscure terms in languages they know little to nothing about.
They then usually proceed to use those as is in an extraordinary display
of linguistic butchery instead of checking, so I think the original
poster here deserves credit for not just assuming his search yielded the
correct term.

[Uji --> 氏]
> This is the "uji" I listed--I posted in Shift JIS, so
> I apologize if you didn't see it. By itself, it can be
> used to mean "the clan".

I really like Thunderbird, but it does seem to be a bit hit or miss
when it comes to interpreting the correct encoding correctly, so I
didn't see it at first. (I knew which kanji you meant anyway, I simply
re-listed it in my reply for the sake of completeness.)

However, the only times I remember coming across "uji" by itself is
in texts about the Ritsuryō system or earlier periods, which precede
samurai history proper by a few centuries.

As for the choice of UTF-8, since you asked about it so nicely in
another reply, my main reason for that is that in addition to English, I
also use French and Japanese, and the letters with macrons from the
extended character set, fairly regularly, and Unicode handles the
combined use of both better than other encoding schemes. My second
choice, if I'm not using macrons or other accented characters but am
including both English and Japanese, is ISO-2022-JP rather than
Shift-JIS; that last I use only for reading what other people send in
that encoding. :)

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