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TLS armor problems

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#6330 [2004-12-15 17:09:29]

TLS armor problems

by elizabethchase1

Hey, I appreciate anyone's knowledge...

I guess the thought I had with respect to armor had more to do with someone 'back then' wearing a suit of yoroi that was several
generations old. I don't know much yet about identifying armor, so I cannot tell what was wrong about the armor in TLS. And
remember, that production had it's own technical advisor, and none of us know what went on between that/those person/s and the
director. What I need to do is get my arse over to a good library and set some books out side by side....

Anyway, time to move on..... I have to go study medieval history by watching 'Return of the King'.....

Evil old woman,

Lizzie



----- Original Message -----
From: Nate Ledbetter
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com

> Armor: I don't know from squat, and would love to
> learn. Yes, I've read Tony's pages. My questions
> are these, so far: how
> impoverished was the samurai class by the Meiji
> period; hadn't the shogunate been defunct by around
> twenty years by the time frame
> of the movie; and how many generations might a suit
> of armor last?

Taken care of, it could last quite a long time. As for
how impoverished were they? Well, there were rich
samurai, and poor ones. The Shogunate doesn't enter
into this, since as you point out it was defunct for 2
decades, so I'm not sure where you are going with that
question.


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[Next #6334]

#6334 [2004-12-15 22:55:41]

RE: [samuraihistory] TLS armor problems

by Michael Peters

I went into the movie with one thought.... Edo jidai was the birthplace of
some abominations in the armour realm, so most anything should be
acceptable. Right?.......

The mixtures of styles was acceptable. The plain poor construction of the
suit you see the most of (The red nuinobe worn by Cruise) was not. I cringe
every time I see a still of the film. The armour of the non-key members of
the rebellion on the whole wasn't bad. There was a preponderance of *odd*
styles (Saiga-bachi etc.). ....And haven't we already had this discussion?

M.J.Peters

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#6336 [2004-12-16 01:15:45]

Re: [samuraihistory] TLS armor problems

by ltdomer98

--- Elizabeth Chase <lizzirrd@...> wrote:

> I guess the thought I had with respect to armor had
> more to do with someone 'back then' wearing a suit
> of yoroi that was several
> generations old. I don't know much yet about
> identifying armor, so I cannot tell what was wrong
> about the armor in TLS.

Don't you just hate typing out long replies, and then
losing it all because your net goes down? Arrgh.

It's tricky because of the time of the movie. Yoroi
weren't in common use once the samurai stopped being
mounted archers and became mounted spearmen--the Yoroi
was designed all wrong for that. In the Sengoku, you
don't see too many yoroi--most of those you do see
were worn by upper ranking general types who didn't
actually expect to be in the thick of things. It was
kind of a "see how rich I am, that I can afford an
antique like this in pristine condition? And I have a
full bodyguard to keep me from having to rely on
it..." deal.

After warfare stopped for the most part in the Edo
period, armor became more for presentation and
display. "Arms and Armour of the Samurai" by Bottomley
and Hopson does a great job of explaining why Edo
period pieces are mainly presentation and highly
impractical. Some of this presentation stuff went into
yoroi becoming popular again, among many other things.
Tokugawa Yoshimune was known to wear a yoroi at times,
when out on "maneuvers".

Therefore, the armor in TLS could conceivably have
been a reflection (as I think someone else points out
in another response) of the eclectic array of display
armor created over the last 200 years. Is it well-made
Sengoku armor? No. Should we expect it to be? Not
really.

And
> remember, that production had it's own technical
> advisor, and none of us know what went on between
> that/those person/s and the
> director.

Probably a lot of

"But that's not right!"

"Shutup, I'm the director, and that's what Americans
want to see"

"okay"


> Anyway, time to move on..... I have to go study
> medieval history by watching 'Return of the
> King'.....

Well, I always thought that trolls were a metaphor for
the French.

Nate



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#6377 [2004-12-18 16:21:45]

Re: TLS armor problems

by klancesegall

> Well, I always thought that trolls were a metaphor for
> the French.
>
> Nate

After all, what was the first thing to run away when the ring was
destroyed?

[Previous #6336] [Next #6382]

#6382 [2004-12-18 23:05:06]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems

by sengokudaimyo

Kyle Segall wrote:

>
>>Well, I always thought that trolls were a metaphor for
>>the French.
>
>
> After all, what was the first thing to run away when the ring was
> destroyed?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Bloody brilliant!


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
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#6390 [2004-12-19 07:02:43]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems

by matthewhoyle2000

Maybe I'm being plain ignorant here, but could someone please explain this?
I don't get it...........

Matt




----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems


>
> Kyle Segall wrote:
>
> >
> >>Well, I always thought that trolls were a metaphor for
> >>the French.
> >
> >
> > After all, what was the first thing to run away when the ring was
> > destroyed?
>
> BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
>
> Bloody brilliant!
>
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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#6391 [2004-12-19 08:09:38]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems

by sengokudaimyo

Matthew E. Hoyle wrote:
> Maybe I'm being plain ignorant here, but could someone please explain this?
> I don't get it...........

Did you see "Return of the King"?


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6390] [Next #6394]

#6394 [2004-12-19 11:43:17]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems

by matthewhoyle2000

No........ I did read the book ages ago though. Frodo throws the ring into
the fire in the mountain to destroy it, while Gollum tries to stop him, but
after that I'm lost.

Who ran away and was he French?? That is the bit I don't get.

thanks, Matt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: TLS armor problems


>
> Matthew E. Hoyle wrote:
> > Maybe I'm being plain ignorant here, but could someone please explain
this?
> > I don't get it...........
>
> Did you see "Return of the King"?
>
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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