Bushido, Zen, Karate and Funakoshi etc

To all,
Because of recent e-mails about the relationship between Bushido and Karate, I have decided to write an essay on this subject, using evidence from JKA masters as well as extracts from respected books. This is my final attempt to prove to you all there is such a strong link between the 2. I hope you all will then decide to do your own research to compliment this essay. Thank you very much.


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--- luke berryman <luke_berryman@...> wrote:

To all,

> Because of recent e-mails about the
> relationship between Bushido and Karate, I have
> decided to write an essay on this subject, using
> evidence from JKA masters as well as extracts from
> respected books. This is my final attempt to prove
> to you all there is such a strong link between the
> 2.

No one has said that there was no link between the
current martial art of Karate and it's philosophical
underpinnings, and the concept of bushido. What has
been put forth is about its ORIGINS, not the
developmental path it has taken as an art. Are you
denying that it was originally developed by peasants?
Because if you are not, then I have no idea why you
are being argumentative. No one has argued against
your thesis stated above.



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Ok people another new topic. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas why there is a lack of defencive shield in japanese military history. Ive read that it maybe due to the samurai origins as a horseback archer and that they were not devloped because ,obviously thay would be in the way of drawing a bow. I also find it strange that in my kendo training there are no sword techniques like the lunge as seen in european fencing which is sometimes seen as a way past a shield, is this why the lunge techinque wasnt devloped in japan because there was no need for it due to a lack of shields. Anyone got any ideas ( i am aware there are lunging techniques in japanese swordplay but vastly different from european forms) thanks all hope your all good

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- luke berryman <luke_berryman@...> wrote:

To all,

> Because of recent e-mails about the
> relationship between Bushido and Karate, I have
> decided to write an essay on this subject, using
> evidence from JKA masters as well as extracts from
> respected books. This is my final attempt to prove
> to you all there is such a strong link between the
> 2.

No one has said that there was no link between the
current martial art of Karate and it's philosophical
underpinnings, and the concept of bushido. What has
been put forth is about its ORIGINS, not the
developmental path it has taken as an art. Are you
denying that it was originally developed by peasants?
Because if you are not, then I have no idea why you
are being argumentative. No one has argued against
your thesis stated above.



__________________________________
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The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
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Why do you say current martial art Karate, I'm talking about the original concept of Karate and the style of Shotokan which has origins within the original way. I do not talk about the modern rubbish, sport Karate.

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

--- luke berryman wrote:

To all,

> Because of recent e-mails about the
> relationship between Bushido and Karate, I have
> decided to write an essay on this subject, using
> evidence from JKA masters as well as extracts from
> respected books. This is my final attempt to prove
> to you all there is such a strong link between the
> 2.

No one has said that there was no link between the
current martial art of Karate and it's philosophical
underpinnings, and the concept of bushido. What has
been put forth is about its ORIGINS, not the
developmental path it has taken as an art. Are you
denying that it was originally developed by peasants?
Because if you are not, then I have no idea why you
are being argumentative. No one has argued against
your thesis stated above.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

james wallis wrote:

>Ok people another new topic. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas why there is a lack of defencive shield in japanese military history. Ive read that it maybe due to the samurai origins as a horseback archer and that they were not devloped because ,obviously thay would be in the way of drawing a bow. I also find it strange that in my kendo training there are no sword techniques like the lunge as seen in european fencing which is sometimes seen as a way past a shield, is this why the lunge techinque wasnt devloped in japan because there was no need for it due to a lack of shields. Anyone got any ideas ( i am aware there are lunging techniques in japanese swordplay but vastly different from european forms) thanks all hope your all good
>
>
>

Have you never noticed that Japanese weapons tend to be weapons that
require the use of BOTH hands?


Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

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'Do' as opposed to 'jutsu' can be read to mean an emphasis on
aesthetic style than combat effectiveness, and a lunge is simply
not very aesthetically pleasing - it involves over-reaching and
thus grossly disturbs one's balance and equilibrium.

Having said that, thrusts are employed in modern martial arts:
In kendo 'tsuki' is a thrust at the throat, and is, I believe, the
only thrust allowed within the rules of the sport.

In armour, of course, it would be the most logical target, and kendo
assumes combat against someone in armour. The thrust in European
fencing is against an unarmoured oponent.

In iaido/jutsu there are a number of thrusts - in fact Mae, the very
first technique in ZNKR iaido employs (albeit arguably), a thrust at
an opponent in the rear.

Of the remaining 9, the following involve a thrust:
No4: Tsuka ate;
No6: Morote tsuki (one of my 'favourite five');
No8: Ganmen ate;
No9: Soete tsuki.

The swordsman does not 'lunge' because it's something of a 'do or
die' attack - if it doesn't do the job, you're wide open to counter
attack - far more so than if you'd have stayed upright and moved
forward.

Having said all that there is a lunge in Muso Shinden Ryu kodachi
which works on the principle that you'll most probably die, but take
the other guy with you.

In Muso Shinden Ryu kenjutsu, there are lunges - in fact there are
what might be considered 'wild slashes' - which are set-up moves to
invite your opponent into making an attack.

Thomas

--- luke berryman <luke_berryman@...> wrote:

> Why do you say current martial art Karate, I'm
> talking about the original concept of Karate and the
> style of Shotokan which has origins within the
> original way. I do not talk about the modern
> rubbish, sport Karate.

Shotokan isn't the origins of karate. You are
completely missing that. Karate didn't begin with
Gichin Funakoshi.



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It's still a valid question, one I have myself.

As I understand it, Japanese warfare originally stressed a lot of
horse archery. This of course influenced the development of armor,
and yes, most Japanese weaponry is two-handed. But plenty of other
horse-mobile warrior cultures did use shields of one sort or another,
in addition to bows.

In the case of the Japanese, shields are conspicuous in their
absence. With shield-using Korean and Chinese neighbors, it almost
seems like a rejection of shields.

> >
> Have you never noticed that Japanese weapons tend to be weapons

that

> require the use of BOTH hands?
>
>
> Tony
>
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder