Re: Samurai Inquiry + YAKUZA

G'day Jason,
Welcome. I know how much my life and sword interests broadened when I found
the first sword lists back in 1995. This Samurai History list came much
later. But to your question re the Yakuza and their history. I have only
one book and it seems to cover them from Go to Whoa (well, still going!).
They began to attract the attention of officials around 1612... Well, go
find a copy of the (paperback, 414 pages):

YAKUZA
The explosive account of Japan's criminal underworld
Alex Dubro and David E Kaplan
Futura (1986)
ISBN 0 7088 3573 2

Best regards,
Barry Thomas (Melbourne, Australia)

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason
To:
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurai Inquiry

Hello Brothers;
Firstly i am new to the forum and as i have been reading along the past
few days i have seen truly, in my humble opinion...the best gathering of
shared knowledge, truth, and comraderie since my days as a U.S. Marine.
Stating that everyone here has a passion for the subject and era(s) would be
a gross understatement. I have been reading & researching Japanese history
for the better part of my life and i am finally within a group where i feel
i can converse openly, freely & most of all...continue to learn. Please
pardon me for being overly ecstatic, but this forum is just truly what i
have been looking for in a nutshell. I have recently returned from Okinawa,
Japan...but luckily for me i am sure none of you will hold that against me
(i hope that was funny to some, give me a little face...please) but have
been over mainland Japan as well and there are not many places in Japan or
Asia period that i have not traveled. On my own or through the U.S.
Military. So i offer my modest thanks and praise for being able to exist
within the forum...
Secondly; i agree with the statements of Mr. Wayland...to request for
information one must truly want to seek the truth. As i am sure we all know,
one of the staples of Bushido was that it was commonplace to seek
constructive criticism from your peers...for as Tsunetomo said: "If you
judge and manage every affair while depending only on your small learning
and wisdom...etc." The point is that you cannot ask a question with the
intention of getting only the answer you desire.
Thirdly; i wanted to acquire some books or writings if possible
explaining the history of the Yakuza as a sort of "police force" in their
origination, i am not sure if this is correct, but i am really looking for a
sort of timeline from their beginning and how they progressed and changed.
Any assistance in this manner would be extremely grateful. Continued
Blessings!





--- On Wed 10/13, Nate Ledbetter < ltdomer98@... > wrote:
From: Nate Ledbetter [mailto: ltdomer98@...]
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurai Inquiry





My use of the phrase "bad romance novel" in no way,

shape, or form, justified an attack on my person using

foul language. That is not the act of someone who

wants answers. The impression is that this person read

something somewhere, potentially fictional, and

believes it to be real. Fine--no problem. To me, it

doesn't sound real. It certainly doesn't sound like

anything I'm familiar with, at least with no further

information to draw from. However, I'm fully willing

to grant it may be a story based on some real events,

and would be happy to help find what those events

were, if I could. I cannot, especially when told "I

know more about this, but won't tell you." Please.



It is not the responsibility of anyone on this board

to soothe egoes or confirm erroneous beliefs. You have

the right to incorrectly believe geisha existed in

1600--you do not have the right to call people who

tell you that you are incorrect and present facts

dirty names.



My reply may have been sardonic, but was not

offensive. I didn't call anyone any names. As a

subordinate list moderator, I was well within my

rights granted by Kitsuno to simply delete the email

and ban the person from posting. I did not, as it was

an attack directly on me--I chose not to act so I

could not be accused of acting out of malice. Kitsuno

can decide to ban or not ban, delete or not delete.



If you want information, this is a great place to be.

If you want affirmation, go see a therapist.





--- Kitsuno

wrote:



>

> It really is not an issue of scholarship. First he

> asks a vague

> question, which is fine. but he also later mentions

> that he has more

> information that he then refuses to release, which

> tells me he isnt

> very interested in getting information. The

> response that offended

> him seemed pretty benign to me, but that is just my

> humble opinion.

> Regardless, it makes sense to me that if you ask a

> question, you try

> to include as much information as possible, which he

> apparently

> didnt do if he is now bragging about having other

> information.

> Anyway, these groups are pretty easy, but not always

> a one way

> street. Just because you ask for someone to do your

> homework for you

> doesnt mean they will do it willingly. People tend

> to want a reason

> to do you work for you. That was part of what I was

> trying to say.

>

>

> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Barry

> Thomas"

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Brothers,

> >

> > > Regardless of your emotional state, this:

> > >> ...

> > > is brutally vague in the extreme. If you cant

> give a single

> > > detail more on this, or even where you found it,

> I can

> > > guarantee that no one will be able to help

> you...

> >

> > Well, granted the original presentation was far

> from scholarly,

> but surely

> > I'm not the only one to (a) find it intriguing and

> (b) find a

> little bell

> > ringing in my head, not from the Sengoku Jidai but

> from mid-Edo.

> Granted

> > the riposte from our original questioner was a far

> from measured

> response,

> > but the replies from Dear List Owner and others

> whose name/s

> escape me

> > hardly encourages anyone to ask any question at

> all, no matter how

> seemingly

> > not PC for the eminent scholars on this list.

> Reminds of the

> lampoons I

> > have got... So, why do I persist with this list?

> Because I love

> the

> > subject matter and see it as an important adjunct

> to my sword

> studies and

> > collecting, and because the awesome knowledge of

> practitioners in

> the field

> > just takes my breath away.

> >

> > Can't we be a little less uptight on this list??

> >

> > Barry Thomas

> > (Melbourne, Australia - just over the road from

> Jim Breen's campus)

>

>

>

>









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All, whilst this is not really what Jason is looking for, it reminded me
of one of my favorite flicks, and I am going to sit down to it right
now, Sydney Polak's "the Yakuza" with Robert Mitchum and Takakura Ken.
It may or may not be accurate, but I think it is a great flick.

Rich Turner

Barry Thomas wrote:

>
> G'day Jason,
> Welcome. I know how much my life and sword interests broadened when I
> found
> the first sword lists back in 1995. This Samurai History list came much
> later. But to your question re the Yakuza and their history. I have only
> one book and it seems to cover them from Go to Whoa (well, still going!).
> They began to attract the attention of officials around 1612... Well, go
> find a copy of the (paperback, 414 pages):
>
> YAKUZA
> The explosive account of Japan's criminal underworld
> Alex Dubro and David E Kaplan
> Futura (1986)
> ISBN 0 7088 3573 2
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]