Era names and dates tidbit

This is a totally esoteric piece of info that probably very few
people would have any interest in, but I discovered it, so I'm
sharin'!

I happened to be looking at one of the stone lanterns that you find
all over every corner of Japan, and this one happened to be on an
island off the coast of Oita prefecture. Since the era name and date
was still clear I made a note out of it out of curiosity just to see
how old the thing was. It was marked "Jokyou 5". So I went to my
computer, used my handy-dandy era converter, and lo and behold,
the "Jokyo" era ended in the 4th year. There was no "Jokyou 5"!
Jokyo ended in the 4th year - 1687, and 1688 was the first year of
Genroku. So I was perplexed, and I asked around. The answer was
actually quite simple - islanders and other people in isolated
vilages sometimes went 2 or 3 years before getting word that the era
had changed, and so during that time any headstones or stone lamps or
torii gates or other stone monuments that were created would be dated
in the era the villagers THOUGHT it was. So they apparently hadnt
gotten word that the Jokyou era had ended and the Genroku era had
began.

Just an interesting (well, I thought so, anyway) tidbit I came across
during my travels.

Kitsuno wrote:

> This is a totally esoteric piece of info that probably very few
> people would have any interest in, but I discovered it, so I'm
> sharin'!
>
> I happened to be looking at one of the stone lanterns that you find
> all over every corner of Japan, and this one happened to be on an
> island off the coast of Oita prefecture. Since the era name and date
> was still clear I made a note out of it out of curiosity just to see
> how old the thing was. It was marked "Jokyou 5". So I went to my
> computer, used my handy-dandy era converter, and lo and behold,
> the "Jokyo" era ended in the 4th year. There was no "Jokyou 5"!

Yes, there was. Genroku 1 was proclaimed on the 30th day of the ninth month of
Jokyo 5. Everything up to that date was Jokyo 5. Everything after it was Genroku 1.

When the last emperor died in 1989, you know 1989 was still the Shôwa Era -- and
a few weeks later it became Heisei 1.

Surely you don't think that eras change at midnight on Dec. 31. :)


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

H'mm, cool, I for one am glad you shared. Some while ago I had a
discussion with some friends, wherein we hypothesised that this might be
the case, but we had zero proof, so we shrugged and moved on. It's nice
to have the evidence, thanks.

In message <cdqq8o+t5qm@...>, Kitsuno listowner@...> writes

> This is a totally esoteric piece of info that probably very few
> people would have any interest in, but I discovered it, so I'm
> sharin'! 
>
> I happened to be looking at one of the stone lanterns that you find
> all over every corner of Japan, and this one happened to be on an
> island off the coast of Oita prefecture.  Since the era name and
> date
> was still clear I made a note out of it out of curiosity just to
> see
> how old the thing was.  It was marked "Jokyou 5".  So I went to my
> computer, used my handy-dandy era converter, and lo and behold,
> the "Jokyo" era ended in the 4th year.  There was no "Jokyou 5"! 
> Jokyo ended in the 4th year - 1687, and 1688 was the first year of
> Genroku.  So I was perplexed, and I asked around.  The answer was
> actually quite simple - islanders and other people in isolated
> vilages sometimes went 2 or 3 years before getting word that the
> era
> had changed, and so during that time any headstones or stone lamps
> or
> torii gates or other stone monuments that were created would be
> dated
> in the era the villagers THOUGHT it was.  So they apparently hadnt
> gotten word that the Jokyou era had ended and the Genroku era had
> began. 
>
> Just an interesting (well, I thought so, anyway) tidbit I came
> across
> during my travels.
>
>
>
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Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

Hi there Tony,

That seems pretty straight forward in itself, but in a period when the
fastest forms of communication was a ship or a horse, surely there must
have been some kind of time lag, relative to the propagation rate of the
news? Obviously the closer you are to the centres of power, the more up
to date your calendar, but if you're out in the sticks/mountains/islands
etc...?

Yours

Dean

> Yes, there was. Genroku 1 was proclaimed on the 30th day of the
> ninth month of
> Jokyo 5. Everything up to that date was Jokyo 5. Everything after
> it was Genroku 1.
>
> When the last emperor died in 1989, you know 1989 was still the
> Shôwa Era -- and
> a few weeks later it became Heisei 1.
>
> Surely you don't think that eras change at midnight on Dec. 31. :)
>
>
> Tony

Dean Wayland wrote:

> Hi there Tony,
>
> That seems pretty straight forward in itself, but in a period when the
> fastest forms of communication was a ship or a horse, surely there must
> have been some kind of time lag, relative to the propagation rate of the
> news? Obviously the closer you are to the centres of power, the more up
> to date your calendar, but if you're out in the sticks/mountains/islands
> etc...?

That wouldn't surprise me at all -- It took how many days for the US as a whole
to find out about Lincoln's assassination? -- but at the heart of that issue was
a more basic question -- that there was, indeed, a Jokyô 5 -- for almost ten
months.

It was the same question that was driving everyone crazy in Japan in 1989, when
Shôwa died (and before, when he was failing and people knew he would be dead
soon). The government nearly ground to a halt as people were putting off
ordering (and designing!) all new government forms that would have to have a NEW
era name in a checkbox (for birthdates, registrations, etc.), and had no idea
what the name was going to be, or when it was actually going to happen. New
calendars needed to be printed, etc. Yeah, it was still Shôwa 65, but it was
about to become something else, too. :)

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"
wrote:

> Surely you don't think that eras change at midnight on Dec. 31. :)
>
>
> Tony

Um, no, of course not...................

This is not uncommon in the dating of swords, examples of both may be
seen;
Swords made in the early part of a year where there is a nengo change
and examples of years that were never officially recognized because the
nengo had changed but the smith had not got the word.
-t

Tom Helm wrote:

> This is not uncommon in the dating of swords, examples of both may be
> seen;
> Swords made in the early part of a year where there is a nengo change
> and examples of years that were never officially recognized because the
> nengo had changed but the smith had not got the word.

You know, I always thought good artisans were *ahead* of the times, not behind
them. ;)

Tony


--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

Hi Tony,

Cheer's Tony, a really nice insight. You know, there are times, when
being of the western culture has its definite positive points, I shall
give my calendar a tad more respect in future:-)

Dean

> That wouldn't surprise me at all -- It took how many days for the
> US as a whole
> to find out about Lincoln's assassination? -- but at the heart of
> that issue was
> a more basic question -- that there was, indeed, a Jokyô 5 -- for
> almost ten
> months.
>
> It was the same question that was driving everyone crazy in Japan
> in 1989, when
> Shôwa died (and before, when he was failing and people knew he
> would be dead
> soon). The government nearly ground to a halt as people were
> putting off
> ordering (and designing!) all new government forms that would have
> to have a NEW
> era name in a checkbox (for birthdates, registrations, etc.), and
> had no idea
> what the name was going to be, or when it was actually going to
> happen. New
> calendars needed to be printed, etc. Yeah, it was still Shôwa 65,
> but it was
> about to become something else, too. :)
>
> Tony

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Dean Wayland wrote:

> Hi there Tony,
>
> That seems pretty straight forward in itself, but in a period when

the

> fastest forms of communication was a ship or a horse, surely there

must

> have been some kind of time lag, relative to the propagation rate

of the

> news? Obviously the closer you are to the centres of power, the

more up

> to date your calendar, but if you're out in the

sticks/mountains/islands

> etc...?
>
> Yours
>
> Dean

That was basically what I was getting at, I just apparently used a
bad example :P