On Jun 8, 2004, at 3:03 AM, Medhal Mikit Stór-ljon Oddhinsson wrote:
>>
>> Many nations?
>> First of all, there were no such things as "nations," at least until
>> the 18th, 19th century; second, national identities were then created
>> according to issues such as language, beliefs, eventually race and
>> tradition. All things that the Japanese shared. Actually few places in
>> the world were (and are) as homogeneous as Japan.
> That is wrong! All small portions of Japan was small countries with
> their
> independence and own emperator as well.
Uh? The only native minority in Japan were the Ainu, who were tamed
well before Nobunaga came on the scene.
> The first one who dreamt to have one nation and perhaps one world (for
> these
> people, Japan was the entire world) was the Emperator Yamato, that
> unlike
> Nobunaga, had peaceful goals and intentions in his heart.
>
> To quote him (Yamato Emperor, NOT Nobunaga)
>
> "On the earth there ins´t earth portions marked with lines and
> different
> colours like a map. Why people of these earth portions had to fight
> each
> others when the earth is only one?"
Where is this citation from, and what is the date?
And more than this, who is this "Yamato Emperor" ?
>>
>>> So, he did exactly the same, including genocide against people who
>>> disagreed
>>> with him or hated religions... Just like Hitler...
>>
>> Wait a minute, wait a minute... Do you have an idea of what the
>> Holocaust was? Hitler killed 5.7 million people simply because they
>> belonged to a race, or because he considered them inferiors. They were
>> not people on his path, he sent out over half of Europe his Gestapo
>> and
>> special extermination squads to get them, and to murder them. Hitler's
>> "final solution," the ultimate decision of killing ALL Jewish, is
>> something you can not compare with Nobunaga's will to unify Japan at
>> all costs. Nobunaga did not build concentration camps where thousands
>> of people were killed every day after they were exploited as slaves.
>> And besides that, Nobunaga was born in the middle of a civil war,
>> while
>> Hitler started a World War... How can you compare them? Hitler lived
>> 400 years later than Nobunaga, in a different continent, and in a
>> totally different contest.
>> Sure, you can speculate that, given the chance, Nobunaga would have
>> done as bad as Hitler, but... ***speculate*** that's it.
>> History is a different matter. IMHO.
>> cepo
>>
> Oooooo.... Very different contest...
>
> Hitler attempted to reunify the "old Sacred German Empire" that never
> existed in history. Always when certain portions of his ideal map are
> in the
> hands of germans, other portions was independent. Some would say that
> he did
> attempted to do with the entire world what the bastard of Nobunaga
> attempted
> with Japan.
Exactly. The world and Japan are two different entities, and thus the
contexts are indeed different.
Not to mention (again) that there were some 400 years of between
Nobunaga and Hitler, and that to start a war and to continue it is not
the same, like it is not the same to raze a few villages and to build
concentration camps for systematic extermination.
> Hitler killed jews not due to racist motivations only, but also
> religious,
> he also prosecuted gypsies, homosexuals and even germans who didn´t
> agreed
> with his policy.
So...?
> And... Although this is offtopic, Cesar, you may criticise my History
> View
> Points as much as ye want, but was not any non-christian religion who
> always
> was conspiring to change history logs, doing adulteration and
> falsification
> on the documents, such as what whas done with certain doccuments by
> Taccitus
> and others to "prove" that Jesus existed. As well, to accuse several
> others
> religions (including judaism) of "human sacrifice" and all the same
> rant as
> aways.
>
> The japanese remember very well their history. Thanks to Tokugawa
> again.
...............
> And although I am not a communist...
> "the people who don´t know their true history deeply, are fated to
> repeat it
> in circles"
> Mao Tse Tung
>
> and again...
>
> "Don´t go around spreading
> that I am telling lies.
> Stand up and PROVE I am wrong.
> The History of the Church
> is full of conspirations of ambition and power"
> Goetche
>
> that´s all
>
> Octavio Augusto Okimoto Alves de Carvalho
> São Paulo - SP Brasil
>
> _________________________________________________________
Sorry, I have NO IDEA of what are you trying to prove with these
citations above and the discourse on Tacitus etc. Actually, -again, I
apologize- I have no idea of what you are talking about. I thought the
discussion was about the utility or the futility to compare Nobunaga
and Hitler. Have I miss something?
cepo