Greetings
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 22:33:15 -1000
> From: Cesare Polenghi
>Subject: Re: Re: Nobunaga as a villain
>
>
>1 - He was a "strong man," and the Japanese revere people with strong
>will.
The Japanese of old was not stupid. They recognized tyrant leaders when
happened, and there is why so many villagers suicidal revolutions happened
in Japan history against bad daimyos when things got really bad!
>
>2 - Asia has a tradition of men who cared about "duty," rather than
>about individuals. Just think of the indian Prince Krishna in the
>Bhagavad-Gita, of the Chinese first Emperor, Qin Shi Huang Di (who's
>celebrated even in recent times, by Mao Tze Tung, rather than in Jet
>Li's "Hero"), and of course of Nobunaga and Hideyoshi. Nobunaga had a
>goal: to unify Japan. He dedicated his life to that, and he wouldn't
>stop at nothing. Some people like such attitude.
>Again, careful with comparisons with people such as Hitler. Hitler
>invaded foreign countries, and he created a bureaucratic apparatus to
>kill civilians (=concentration camps). Nobunaga played in his own
>country and he killed simply what was on his way.
>
There is a thing ye hast forgot....
He was not "playing in his own country". Japan was not a country at that
time, but MANY countries. Many nations.
So, he did exactly the same, including genocide against people who disagreed
with him or hated religions... Just like Hitler...
>3 - Finally, it can be argued that Nobunaga, just as many other
>unifiers, worked for a 'greater good.' The unification was necessarily
>a bloodshed, but what emerged at its end (the Tokugawa Shogunate)
>formed the basis for modern Japan and guaranteed 250+ years of relative
>peace. Ultimately, if Japan would have go on "sengokuing" another
>100-200 years, it would have been routed easily by the first Western
>fleet arriving. So, the unification was a good thing for Japan, I would
>say.
Yup! That is why I say that Tokugawa was the one who did the right thing,
And also, doing Japan cultural preservation.
>
>In general, our approach as historians (??) should be less judgmental.
>We are here to observe, perhaps comment, but we are in no position to
>judge the "morality" or the "sense of justice" of a man who lived some
>500 years ago in a far away country, engulfed in a civil war.
>
>Sure, by our modern Enlightenment-Christian influenced standard, he was
>a villain. But this is a biased point of view. I think.
Who�s "modern-enlightenment-christian influenced standard"?
My Individual Liberties line of though is not christian in any way.
And I think the guy of Sweden guessed what I am. Just would say that I am
not even an monotheist.
>
>cepo
>
>PS = I believe Nobunaga was not killed by ninja, but by Akechi
>Mitsuhide's men. Apparently, Nobunaga was on his way to Kyoto to do
>some tea ceremony. He stayed over at a temple, and there he's got it.
>There is no historical evidence of his death, however. The temple
>(Honnouji) burnt down, and he probably perished in the fire, perhaps
>after committing seppuku. It was 1582. Hideyoshi, was campaigning in
>the West, and once he heard the news he returned to Kyoto, and he
>destroyed Akechi Mitsuhide, to become the new leader of Japan.
I have a book saying something different. But is not at this house I am now.
So I must someday go to my parents house, research the book and tell its
sources. Lets say that this book is one that also promote Hatsumi Massaaki
Sensei.
Regards
Octavio Augusto Okimoto Alves de Carvalho
S�o Paulo - SP Brazil
_________________________________________________________
Voce quer um iGMail protegido contra v�rus e spams?
Clique aqui:
http://www.igmailseguro.ig.com.br
Ofertas imperd�veis! Link:
http://www.americanas.com.br/ig/