>
> There are 7 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: RE: WWII... why?
> From: James Eckman <FUGU@...>
> 2. Tsuruga-jo and other forgotten castles
> From: "Edward Alexander" <edy@...>
> 3. Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
> From: Dave Jackson <nihontonut@...>
> 4. Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
> From: Michael Lorimer <mijalo_jp@...>
> 5. Re: Tsuruga-jo and other forgotten castles
> From: "Karsten Helmholz" <karsten@...>
> 6. Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
> From: Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...>
> 7. Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
> From: Eponymous13@...
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:30:07 -0700
> From: James Eckman <FUGU@...>
> Subject: Re: RE: WWII... why?
>
> samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > From: "Tristan Burke" <football1st@...>
> >Subject: RE: WWII... why?
> >
> >I feel that Japan was forced into war by the US - the invasion of Hawaii and
> >the trade embargoes all lead to Japan having the choice of:
> >
> >1. giving into america and doing as they were told
> >or
> >2. fighting back with military means
> >
> >
> The invasion of Hawaii by the US is 50 years previous to this, I don't
> see what bearing this has on anything. By this point Japan has been
> mucking about in Korea and China for decades and showing their talent
> for colonial administration. I.E. virtually none. Previous to this they
> had already attacked Americans, read up on the Panay. These actions and
> others lead to the embargoes and other sanctions. Military dictatorships
> don't make good neighbors and are generally poor at diplomacy.
>
> >I also feel that the US has to bear a good portion of the blame -
> >you have to remember that the Japanese people's only experience of the US
> >was being forced to trade at gunpoint, and the US invasion of Hawaii because
> >they were holding a referendum which would have made Hawaii a Japanese, not
> >American, state.
> >
> The original treaty also dealt with treating shipwrecked sailors like
> humans and other things along those lines, this is close to 90 years
> before, I've never heard of the referendum to make Hawaii a Japanese
> state, I doubt it would have come close to passing since the number of
> anglos, Hawaiians and Chinese far exceeded the number of Japanese on the
> island. Even if just the Hawaiians voted, they felt they could stay an
> independent country at the time. The US backed coup came as an
> unpleasant surprise. P.S. Look up the difference in the US between a
> territory and a state, It took about 60 years for Hawaii to become a state.
>
> > Plus in nearby Phillipines they had seen the Americans
> >invade the islands and then keep it as a colony. Are they the actions of a
> >state that you would trust in their position?? I suppose it is little wonder
> >that no diplomatic solution was ever reached.
> >
> >
> We were late to the colonial game, so we got the leftovers that the UK,
> France and Germany didn't want. We should have freed them like we did
> with Cuba. This still has little bearing on Japan's actions, they were
> an aggressive, expansionist, military dictatorship that had set out to
> conquer Asia, this would have lead to war no matter what and the US
> tried diplomatic means to prevent it including not going to war over
> attacking US citizens and soldiers.
>
> In some ways these does show samurai spirit, a bunch of bloody minded
> killers who are going to take what they want and only understand force
> as an argument. Which makes them no different from their European
> counterparts.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:54:52 +0300
> From: "Edward Alexander" <edy@...>
> Subject: Tsuruga-jo and other forgotten castles
>
> Hey all,
> Can you tell me more about castles like Tsuruga-jo,Hirosaki-jo.....
> Please!
>
>
> Edy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:40:52 -0700
> From: Dave Jackson <nihontonut@...>
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
>
> I agree with Nate Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers are great, Two others
> I liked were Enemy at the Gates as well as Stalingrad.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nate Ledbetter
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:48 AM
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: [samuraihistory] WWII... why?
>
>
> Windtalker was hideous. Awful. Insulting.
>
> Black Hawk Down was a great movie, as far as
> depictions go. Much better than either of these two.
> Of course, I am a huge fan of Saving Private Ryan, and
> of course the Band of Brothers series.
>
> How can you not like PATTON?? I mean, it's about GOD
> himself?? (Says the former armor officer)
>
> Nate
>
> --- Cesare Polenghi <cepo@...> wrote:
> > On Apr 12, 2004, at 5:04 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking as an avid war movie fan and a current
> > > military member, the Thin Red Line was HORRIBLE.
> > I
> > > couldn't finish it. Very whiny.
> > >
> > > Nate
> >
> > But I've got to watch it for school anyway...
> > phew... three hours of
> > torture then?
> > For me it was hard to survive the two hours of
> > 'Windtalker...'
> >
> > Actually, the only Non-Vietnam 20th c. war movie I
> > REALLY liked was
> > 'Black Hawk Down.'
> > Any other suggestion?
> >
> > Thanx,
> > cepo
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:06:22 +0100 (BST)
> From: Michael Lorimer <mijalo_jp@...>
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
>
> A little dated perhaps, and lacking the attempted realism of modern war movies,
> but I'd like to give a thumbs up to 'A Bridge To Far' and 'The Great Escape'.
> M.Lorimer
>
> Dave Jackson <nihontonut@...> wrote:
> I agree with Nate Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers are great, Two others
> I liked were Enemy at the Gates as well as Stalingrad.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nate Ledbetter
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:48 AM
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: [samuraihistory] WWII... why?
>
>
> Windtalker was hideous. Awful. Insulting.
>
> Black Hawk Down was a great movie, as far as
> depictions go. Much better than either of these two.
> Of course, I am a huge fan of Saving Private Ryan, and
> of course the Band of Brothers series.
>
> How can you not like PATTON?? I mean, it's about GOD
> himself?? (Says the former armor officer)
>
> Nate
>
> --- Cesare Polenghi <cepo@...> wrote:
> > On Apr 12, 2004, at 5:04 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking as an avid war movie fan and a current
> > > military member, the Thin Red Line was HORRIBLE.
> > I
> > > couldn't finish it. Very whiny.
> > >
> > > Nate
> >
> > But I've got to watch it for school anyway...
> > phew... three hours of
> > torture then?
> > For me it was hard to survive the two hours of
> > 'Windtalker...'
> >
> > Actually, the only Non-Vietnam 20th c. war movie I
> > REALLY liked was
> > 'Black Hawk Down.'
> > Any other suggestion?
> >
> > Thanx,
> > cepo
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:21:19 +0200
> From: "Karsten Helmholz" <karsten@...>
> Subject: Re: Tsuruga-jo and other forgotten castles
>
> Why forgotten ? It�s nice there. I lived in Fukui and went there a couple of
> times. Maybe I can dig up some pics.
> Karsten
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Alexander" <edy@...>
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:54 PM
> Subject: [samuraihistory] Tsuruga-jo and other forgotten castles
>
>
> > Hey all,
> > Can you tell me more about castles like Tsuruga-jo,Hirosaki-jo.....
> > Please!
> >
> >
> > Edy
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> > ---
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...>
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
>
> A Bridge Too Far, The Longest Day...these set the
> STANDARD for war movies...they are what all good war
> movies are built on!
>
> Nate
>
> --- Michael Lorimer <mijalo_jp@...> wrote:
> > A little dated perhaps, and lacking the attempted
> > realism of modern war movies, but I'd like to give a
> > thumbs up to 'A Bridge To Far' and 'The Great
> > Escape'.
> > M.Lorimer
> >
>
>
>
>
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>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:34:28 EDT
> From: Eponymous13@...
> Subject: Re: OT? = Re: WWII... why?
>
> My two cents...
> I haven't seen it, but I've never heard a bad word about Oliver
> Stone's(? M I correct on this?) PLATOON. :-)
>
> L8r
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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