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hello again

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#3453 [2004-01-30 18:48:07]

hello again

by onyxtsunami

i'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one just kinda hard to get
around without 2000 questions from modern people not used to the
samurai. e-mail me

[Next #3455]

#3455 [2004-01-30 21:40:06]

Re: [samuraihistory] hello again

by sengokudaimyo

onyxtsunami wrote:

> i'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
> samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one

Oh, for the love of God.

Has everyone gone insane?



Tony

[Previous #3453] [Next #3459]

#3459 [2004-01-30 23:39:11]

Re: hello again

by shingen32

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"
wrote:
> onyxtsunami wrote:
>
> > i'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
> > samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one
>
> Oh, for the love of God.
>
> Has everyone gone insane?
>
>
>
> Tony

Come on Tony you must conform with all the little samurai`s out
there,how much longer can you hold out for,every ones got thier
limit,if you like i will loan you my time machine so you can send
all these samurai wannabes back 400 years then they can find out
what its really like,they will be running away throwing their
katana`s as they go,now just calm down breath in deeply and count to
10 give it a go it works for me,and keep taking the tablets..lmao

Dave...............

[Previous #3455] [Next #3462]

#3462 [2004-01-31 06:57:54]

Re: [samuraihistory] hello again

by Mmupton1@cs.com

In a message dated 01/30/2004 22:42:45 US Mountain Standard Time,
onyxtsunami@... writes:


> I'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
> samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one just kinda hard to get
> around without 2000 questions from modern people not used to the
> samurai. e-mail me

Sure I practice kendo in my spare time, and I follow some stuff from "Haga
Kure"; but there is no way for an Irish/Mexican American to be a samurai.
Samurai are all dead. Though what they stood for may still exist samurai are dead.

-Mr.Matt13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #3459] [Next #3470]

#3470 [2004-01-31 18:03:37]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by sengokudaimyo

shingen32 wrote:

> Come on Tony you must conform with all the little samurai`s out
> there,how much longer can you hold out for,every ones got thier
> limit,if you like i will loan you my time machine so you can send
> all these samurai wannabes back 400 years then they can find out
> what its really like,they will be running away throwing their
> katana`s as they go,now just calm down breath in deeply and count to
> 10 give it a go it works for me,and keep taking the tablets..lmao

Tablets? Hell, I'm beyond tablets. I'm doing Scotch now. I *have* to.

Tony

[Previous #3462] [Next #3475]

#3475 [2004-01-31 18:55:15]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by onyxtsunami

i'm no wannabe samurai.i have a life of swordsmanship and it wont hurt to be mocked or made fun of.

"Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:shingen32 wrote:

> Come on Tony you must conform with all the little samurai`s out
> there,how much longer can you hold out for,every ones got thier
> limit,if you like i will loan you my time machine so you can send
> all these samurai wannabes back 400 years then they can find out
> what its really like,they will be running away throwing their
> katana`s as they go,now just calm down breath in deeply and count to
> 10 give it a go it works for me,and keep taking the tablets..lmao

Tablets? Hell, I'm beyond tablets. I'm doing Scotch now. I *have* to.

Tony


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[Previous #3470] [Next #3479]

#3479 [2004-01-31 20:00:20]

Re: hello again

by dateyukiie

Konban wa, tomodachi
Now there is the man I have come to respect! Kampai!

Tony - were those drawings usefull at all? Do I need to make any
changes?
Date


> Tablets? Hell, I'm beyond tablets. I'm doing Scotch now. I *
have* to.
>
> Tony

[Previous #3475] [Next #3495]

#3495 [2004-02-01 11:44:27]

Re: hello again

by goldrushg

At 09:46 AM 2/1/04, you wrote:
>i'm no wannabe samurai.i have a life of swordsmanship and it wont hurt to
>be mocked or made fun of.

It's not a matter of making fun of anyone. I believe you're missing
Tony's point. Specifically, the term "samurai" is not synonymous with
"swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to Bushido" or anything similar.
Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer exists. So in the strict
definition of the term, one cannot "become" a samurai any more.


Mark Arsenault
Sengoku List Taisho
----------------------------------------------
http://www.sengoku.com - The official site of the Sengoku RPG!

[Previous #3479] [Next #3498]

#3498 [2004-02-01 12:41:22]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by jaso1670

Actually, I think this is just some anonymous loser who's trolling the list
for kicks.

-Thom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Arsenault" <taisho@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again


> At 09:46 AM 2/1/04, you wrote:
> >i'm no wannabe samurai.i have a life of swordsmanship and it wont hurt to
> >be mocked or made fun of.
>
> It's not a matter of making fun of anyone. I believe you're missing
> Tony's point. Specifically, the term "samurai" is not synonymous with
> "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to Bushido" or anything similar.
> Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer exists. So in the strict
> definition of the term, one cannot "become" a samurai any more.
>
>
> Mark Arsenault
> Sengoku List Taisho
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.sengoku.com - The official site of the Sengoku RPG!
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/samuraihistory/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[Previous #3495] [Next #3501]

#3501 [2004-02-01 17:06:39]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by ltdomer98

--- Mark Arsenault <taisho@...> wrote:
Specifically, the term "samurai" is
> not synonymous with
> "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to Bushido"
> or anything similar.
> Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer exists.
> So in the strict
> definition of the term, one cannot "become" a
> samurai any more.

Point of fact, if you told you're average Japanese
person you were a "samurai", you'd have them laughing
until next week. It just ain't possible.

Nate

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[Previous #3498] [Next #3502]

#3502 [2004-02-01 17:52:53]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by mijalo_jp

Quite so.
The term 'samurai' does not regard simply to those men (and some women) who trained with, and deployed their swords. The word comes from the kanji meaning literally 'to serve', whether it was the Emperor, a daimyo, or even one of the equally mighty temples.
However, upon this point of 'to serve', would you classify the likes of the Miyamoto Musashi as a 'samurai' since his carrer with the sword was one essentially without a master??
M.Lorimer

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

--- Mark Arsenault <taisho@...> wrote:
Specifically, the term "samurai" is
> not synonymous with
> "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to Bushido"
> or anything similar.
> Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer exists.
> So in the strict
> definition of the term, one cannot "become" a
> samurai any more.

Point of fact, if you told you're average Japanese
person you were a "samurai", you'd have them laughing
until next week. It just ain't possible.

Nate

__________________________________
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[Previous #3501] [Next #3503]

#3503 [2004-02-01 20:14:05]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by ltdomer98

Um, yes, you would, as he was born into the hereditary
samurai class. It's a class, not a job description. I
could "serve" someone, and still not be a samurai if I
wasn't a. born into it or b. in rare cases, promoted
into it (i.e. the bakufu basically gives a declaration
that such and such person is now a member of the
samurai class, and as such has all responsibilities
and duties associated, and so and so's descendants
shall be samurai, etc.).

Nate

--- Michael Lorimer <mijalo_jp@...> wrote:
> Quite so.
> The term 'samurai' does not regard simply to those
> men (and some women) who trained with, and deployed
> their swords. The word comes from the kanji meaning
> literally 'to serve', whether it was the Emperor, a
> daimyo, or even one of the equally mighty temples.
> However, upon this point of 'to serve', would you
> classify the likes of the Miyamoto Musashi as a
> 'samurai' since his carrer with the sword was one
> essentially without a master??
> M.Lorimer
>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
>
> --- Mark Arsenault <taisho@...> wrote:
> Specifically, the term "samurai" is
> > not synonymous with
> > "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to
> Bushido"
> > or anything similar.
> > Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer
> exists.
> > So in the strict
> > definition of the term, one cannot "become" a
> > samurai any more.
>
> Point of fact, if you told you're average Japanese
> person you were a "samurai", you'd have them
> laughing
> until next week. It just ain't possible.
>
> Nate
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
> Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
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> http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
>
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>
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#3505 [2004-02-01 20:22:35]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by mijalo_jp

Thanbk you.
So theoretically the descendants of the samurai class could therefore still consider themselves to be samurai, although not with a legal foundation, with the laws enacted during the Meiji Restoration being formulated by the winners, if not nessarily/hypothetically those in the 'right' ??
Just a thought
M.Lorimer

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
Um, yes, you would, as he was born into the hereditary
samurai class. It's a class, not a job description. I
could "serve" someone, and still not be a samurai if I
wasn't a. born into it or b. in rare cases, promoted
into it (i.e. the bakufu basically gives a declaration
that such and such person is now a member of the
samurai class, and as such has all responsibilities
and duties associated, and so and so's descendants
shall be samurai, etc.).

Nate

--- Michael Lorimer wrote:
> Quite so.
> The term 'samurai' does not regard simply to those
> men (and some women) who trained with, and deployed
> their swords. The word comes from the kanji meaning
> literally 'to serve', whether it was the Emperor, a
> daimyo, or even one of the equally mighty temples.
> However, upon this point of 'to serve', would you
> classify the likes of the Miyamoto Musashi as a
> 'samurai' since his carrer with the sword was one
> essentially without a master??
> M.Lorimer
>
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> --- Mark Arsenault wrote:
> Specifically, the term "samurai" is
> > not synonymous with
> > "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to
> Bushido"
> > or anything similar.
> > Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer
> exists.
> > So in the strict
> > definition of the term, one cannot "become" a
> > samurai any more.
>
> Point of fact, if you told you're average Japanese
> person you were a "samurai", you'd have them
> laughing
> until next week. It just ain't possible.
>
> Nate
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
> Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/samuraihistory/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> online today and save £80
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
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>
>
>


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#3510 [2004-02-02 04:21:43]

Re: [samuraihistory] hello again

by edynature

I wanna practice kendo but here in Romania....no chance....no Kendo teachers....Edy

Mmupton1@... wrote:In a message dated 01/30/2004 22:42:45 US Mountain Standard Time,
onyxtsunami@... writes:


> I'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
> samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one just kinda hard to get
> around without 2000 questions from modern people not used to the
> samurai. e-mail me

Sure I practice kendo in my spare time, and I follow some stuff from "Haga
Kure"; but there is no way for an Irish/Mexican American to be a samurai.
Samurai are all dead. Though what they stood for may still exist samurai are dead.

-Mr.Matt13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




---
Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
---



---------------------------------
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[Previous #3505] [Next #3512]

#3512 [2004-02-02 05:42:27]

Re: hello again

by midorinotoradesu

I think that you can often hear Japanese people refering to others as
having a "Samurai bloodline" but they don't consider them Samurai.
They are descendents of the Samurai and maybe even a famous Daimyo
but they are never considered Samurai themselves. I've been told
that there is some influence in modern politics based on Samurai
bloodlines. Most of these families still use the Mon that their
Samurai ancestors used. But as Nate said, the class is extinct! Even
though we may still see some of its influence in modern Japan, a
Nihonjin(or any other person) cannot belong to a class that does not
exist. So, let me sum up. No, they cannot still consider themselves
Samurai.

Brandon
--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Michael Lorimer <
mijalo_jp@y...> wrote:
> Thanbk you.
> So theoretically the descendants of the samurai class could
therefore still consider themselves to be samurai, although not with
a legal foundation, with the laws enacted during the Meiji
Restoration being formulated by the winners, if not nessarily/
hypothetically those in the 'right' ??
> Just a thought
> M.Lorimer
>
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> Um, yes, you would, as he was born into the hereditary
> samurai class. It's a class, not a job description. I
> could "serve" someone, and still not be a samurai if I
> wasn't a. born into it or b. in rare cases, promoted
> into it (i.e. the bakufu basically gives a declaration
> that such and such person is now a member of the
> samurai class, and as such has all responsibilities
> and duties associated, and so and so's descendants
> shall be samurai, etc.).
>
> Nate
>
> --- Michael Lorimer wrote:
> > Quite so.
> > The term 'samurai' does not regard simply to those
> > men (and some women) who trained with, and deployed
> > their swords. The word comes from the kanji meaning
> > literally 'to serve', whether it was the Emperor, a
> > daimyo, or even one of the equally mighty temples.
> > However, upon this point of 'to serve', would you
> > classify the likes of the Miyamoto Musashi as a
> > 'samurai' since his carrer with the sword was one
> > essentially without a master??
> > M.Lorimer
> >
> > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > --- Mark Arsenault wrote:
> > Specifically, the term "samurai" is
> > > not synonymous with
> > > "swordsman" or "one who tries to adhere to
> > Bushido"
> > > or anything similar.
> > > Samurai were a caste, and one that no longer
> > exists.
> > > So in the strict
> > > definition of the term, one cannot "become" a
> > > samurai any more.
> >
> > Point of fact, if you told you're average Japanese
> > person you were a "samurai", you'd have them
> > laughing
> > until next week. It just ain't possible.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
> > Try it!
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > Samurai Archives store:
> > http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/samuraihistory/
> >
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> > samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> > online today and save £80
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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> ---
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and
save £80
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #3510] [Next #3515]

#3515 [2004-02-02 05:57:24]

Re: hello again

by dateyukiie

Konnichi wa, tomodachi
This is going to seem as if I am against samurai, which I am not. I am
rather intrigued by them, in their day. Follow me on this for a moment
if you will...

When Slavery was abolished in the United States, there were people who
still thought slavery was a good idea, and people who didn't. After
the abolishment of slavery, for the most part, former slave owners
rarely went about saying they were members of a class that proudly
owned other human beings and had the right to life or death over them.
The law didn't allow that any more, and for the most part, and the
general populace would not stand for that. The abolishment was drilled
into the public psyche, as was the concept that slave owners were not
needed in a changed society, and that all races and classes should be
free and theoretically equal. Owning slaves was made not-noble.

Samurai had an equal right of life or death over those of lesser
class, held all of the benefits of the current society, and when
Samurai were abolished, the general psyche of the public thought they
were as un-needed as slave owners were in the U.S.

So I suppose one could say they were still slave owners if they were
the descendants of slave owners...but the public would not look kindly
on that, nor would I suspect the public would look kindly on Samurai.

There were good samurai, and the parts of samurai life that were noble
should be celebrated but lets not forget it was a package deal. - just
like there were, I suppose, some good slave owners, but the society
evolved around them.


Just other thoughts...
Christopher
(who celebrates the good parts of samurai life, but is aware there are
bad ones...)

> So theoretically the descendants of the samurai class could
therefore still consider themselves to be samurai, although not with a
legal foundation, with the laws enacted during the Meiji Restoration
being formulated by the winners, if not nessarily/hypothetically those
in the 'right' ??
> Just a thought
> M.Lorimer
>

[Previous #3512] [Next #3519]

#3519 [2004-02-02 09:02:04]

Re: [samuraihistory] hello again

by tbsorrentino

There aren´t many Kendo, Iaido or Kenjutsu teachers in Brazil either, however, perhaps if you look long enough, you will find one.

Thiago

----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Alexander
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] hello again


I wanna practice kendo but here in Romania....no chance....no Kendo teachers....Edy

Mmupton1@... wrote:In a message dated 01/30/2004 22:42:45 US Mountain Standard Time,
onyxtsunami@... writes:


> I'm sure you are but is any one else planning on becoming a real
> samurai or swordsman? i have a job as one just kinda hard to get
> around without 2000 questions from modern people not used to the
> samurai. e-mail me

Sure I practice kendo in my spare time, and I follow some stuff from "Haga
Kure"; but there is no way for an Irish/Mexican American to be a samurai.
Samurai are all dead. Though what they stood for may still exist samurai are dead.

-Mr.Matt13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




---
Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
---



---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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#3559 [2004-02-02 21:28:27]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: hello again

by cepooooo

On Feb 2, 2004, at 3:42 AM, midorinotoradesu wrote:

> I've been told
> that there is some influence in modern politics based on Samurai
> bloodlines. 

Most ex-samurai send their kids to Tokyo (Imperial) University soon
after the Meiji Restoration.
Today, 80% of the Japanese politicians still come out of that
University.
I believe that is the main correction, and -yes- you're probably right.
A few politicians today descend from the Samurai class, even thought
gradually more and more sons of merchants and commoners went to Todai
as well.
cepo

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