Question

I've just browsed through the Top Ten Misconception about samurais,
and one of it discusses about bushido. I'm kinda confused...
It states that bushido was "meant to keep samurais subservient to
their employing daimyos," however, when I read the book by Inazo
Nitobe, "Bushido: the Soul of Japan," it never mentions anything
about it.. he mentioned that bushido was practiced by some samurais
even before the edo era. It only flourished during does times but
not exactly created during those periods. Does it mean that Bushido
was created not to refine the samurais but to stop them form doing
atrocities?

The Bushido as we've come to know it is entirely an Edo invention.
When I wrote that it was meant to keep samurai subservient to their
employing daimyo, I didn't mean the whole thing, I meant the more
famous aspects such as serving your master to the ends of the earth.
Certainly, some ideals in the Bushido existed before the Edo era
(for example, the Confucian ideal of putting the group/clan ahead of
the individual was a basic notion amongst all Japanese for quite a
time before the Edo era), but the general ideal did not.
I'd be careful about reading books about the Bushido... for example,
I don't think Yamamoto Tsunetomo was too eager to admit that
the "glorious bushido" he preached didn't exist in the Sengoku era
that he apparently longed for.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "dconfrost_chasez21"
wrote:

> I've just browsed through the Top Ten Misconception about

samurais,

> and one of it discusses about bushido. I'm kinda confused...
> It states that bushido was "meant to keep samurais subservient to
> their employing daimyos," however, when I read the book by Inazo
> Nitobe, "Bushido: the Soul of Japan," it never mentions anything
> about it.. he mentioned that bushido was practiced by some

samurais

> even before the edo era. It only flourished during does times but
> not exactly created during those periods. Does it mean that

Bushido

> was created not to refine the samurais but to stop them form doing
> atrocities?

On Jan 27, 2004, at 11:30 PM, dconfrost_chasez21 wrote:

> I'm kinda confused...
>

"Bushido" really is an Edo period idea, prior to that there were codes
of conduct written and unwritten, explicit and implied. They were never
universal or absolute, often differing ideas took hold in different
parts of the country. During the Edo period, it became much more
"codified" and infused with Tokugawa-esque confusianism and was
promulgated nationwide. The overall message was one of obedience to
social mores and law and lord. It is seen today as a political tool
used to suppress opposition but may have only been a sincere reflection
of the ideals of the House of Tokugawa and not a calculated policy.
I think you'll find the true ideals of the samurai in the chronicles,
art and music from prior to the Pax Tokugawa...
-t

I have a question. Kenshin Himura. is from the Late Edo Era and Early Meiji
Correct??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a question. Is it allowed to watch Sumo wrestlers when they are doing their training. If yes, where is the Sumo training place in Tokyo to watch them. Please, let me know the contact address and number if the one has them.

Thank you.



FearlessNeko@... wrote:
I have a question. Kenshin Himura. is from the Late Edo Era and Early Meiji
Correct??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Yeah, I dont see why not.. My uncle use to watch them train.


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I have some information about this on my homepage, but it may be out of
date as it�s three or four years old. You can definitely do it though.
The URL is: HYPERLINK
"http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~edjacob/Cool.html"http://www3.tky.3web.ne.j
p/~edjacob/Cool.html.

Ed Jacob
HYPERLINK
"http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~edjacob/"http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~edjaco
b/

-----Original Message-----
From: FearlessNeko@... [mailto:FearlessNeko@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:07 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Watch Sumo Training

Yeah, I dont see why not.. My uncle use to watch them train.


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Kenshin is Early Edo and Late Meiji he also fights in the Sino-Japannese War (Referred to as "the Continenet") also note the ships with cannons during the OVA

----- Original Message -----
From: FearlessNeko@...
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Question


I have a question. Kenshin Himura. is from the Late Edo Era and Early Meiji
Correct??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Rurouni Kenshin takes place in the early Meiji jidai; there's also a flash back in the latest days of the bakumatsu and finally in the movies there are scenes from years after such as the war in china etc...

FearlessNeko@... wrote:I have a question. Kenshin Himura. is from the Late Edo Era and Early Meiji
Correct??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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I am looking for information to the Kamo name associated with the
samurais. Kamo River in Kyoto supposedly named after ancestor. Any
information or how to look up Kamo ancestry would be appreciated.

Thank you.

The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

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Hi All,

No one came from U.S.A. as the commander like Tom Cruise to become the warrior helping the old power like Ken Watanabe in real History of Japan.
However, the civil war ? between the old power and the new power was occurred really at the end of Edo era. And the new power defeated the other one to establish New Government , Meiji Government.

By the way , do you know who did open Japan's door which used be closed against foreign countries ?

Since then, Japan really were forced to be changed, to be revoluted to face with barbarians through The pacific Ocean's war.

Japan got the tiny bud of destiny to fight against them later at that time.

Your comment on the above will be highly appreciated.

Eddie


"Haynes, A (Angus)" <angus.haynes@...> wrote:

>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

__________________________________________________________

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not
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thanks for the book title, in my area i have only been able to find general history on the samurai now i can read more detailed accounts of them

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, Haynes, A (Angus) <angus.haynes@...> wrote:


From: Haynes, A (Angus) <angus.haynes@...>
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Question
To: "samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com" <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:20 AM








>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

The Rabobank Group

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On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Charles Norgren
<chuckcool1973@...> wrote:

> thanks for the book title, in my area i have only been able to find general history on the samurai now i can read more detailed accounts of them
>

If you are looking for books, try this:

http://astore.amazon.com/samurai-20/

Not only are they collected here for you, in a specialized location,
but you can buy them straight off the site, as it is linked through
Amazon.


-Josh

it was Commarode Matther C. Perry in March 1854

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...> wrote:


From: eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...>
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Question
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM








Hi All,

No one came from U.S.A. as the commander like Tom Cruise to become the warrior helping the old power like Ken Watanabe in real History of Japan.
However, the civil war ? between the old power and the new power was occurred really at the end of Edo era. And the new power defeated the other one to establish New Government , Meiji Government.

By the way , do you know who did open Japan's door which used be closed against foreign countries ?

Since then, Japan really were forced to be changed, to be revoluted to face with barbarians through The pacific Ocean's war.

Japan got the tiny bud of destiny to fight against them later at that time.

Your comment on the above will be highly appreciated.

Eddie


"Haynes, A (Angus)" wrote:


>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not
liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

The Rabobank Group

Australia: 1800 025 484
New Zealand: 0800 500 933
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" However, the civil war ? between the old power and the new power was
occurred really at the end of Edo era. And the new power defeated the other
one to establish New Government , Meiji Government."

Yes and no. Many of those who rebelled were those who support the emperor.
Both sides used firearms, it wasn't like the movie were they rebelled
because of the modernization. Too many times we put simple answers to complex
ones.

"By the way , do you know who did open Japan's door which used be closed
against foreign countries ?"

The Dutch had a trading post since the 1400's in Japan. The shogunate at
the time of the opening had a model of a working steam engine (that they
built), a working blast furnace and a model of wire communication. They also
had access to modern (at the time) medical books. They knew what was coming,
but they wanted to control the information as to keep power.

Since then, Japan really were forced to be changed, to be revoluted to
face with barbarians through The pacific Ocean's war.

Forced? Not really,Once again it comes down to power and the control of
it. The shogunate held information so they could control it and prevent the
daimyo's from getting it and using it to over throw them (which they did).
The best example is firearms, which the at the end other Daimyo got a hold of
and used them to challenge the shogunate.

There is much out there that is misunderstood about the Samurai. My
personal favorite is the way Bushido was twisted to serve the daimyo so they
could better control those below them. For example the myth of a "Samurai would
rather die than face surrender or defeat". This was not at all true, many
diamyo and their forces surrendered, switched sides and lost battles and
guess what? They live! With no shame. It was later, that this was put in. By
people (Nobles) who wanted to ensure loyalty.

Greg
**************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in
the U.S.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
There is much out there that is misunderstood about the Samurai. My
personal favorite is the way Bushido was twisted to serve the daimyo so they
could better control those below them. For example the myth of a "Samurai would
rather die than face surrender or defeat". This was not at all true, many
diamyo and their forces surrendered, switched sides and lost battles and
guess what? They live! With no shame. It was later, that this was put in. By
people (Nobles) who wanted to ensure loyalty.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It's not often I feel I can contribute to a thread, but I do recall reading that before 1600 an oft heard call on the battlefield was "Uragiri" - treachery, or betrayal!! Yo - yet another faction had changed sides...

Here is a movie about betrayal:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0304318/

Then at
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=72639707&groupID=100142598&adTopicID=31&Mytoken=4050B489-3A39-4122-B5005F9602D261414540933
(tiny url: http://tiny.cc/qIsZb)

I found this movie title with Toshiro Mifune
SURONIN MAKARI TORU: YATATE TOGE NI URAGIRI O MITA (1983) Directed by Tachikazu Takamori
Lowly Ronin Returns: Betrayal at Yatate Pass (Toshiro Mifune).

So it seems betrayal is a strong theme in both samurai history still represented in current cinema.

Regards,
Barry Thomas
(Australia)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Charles Norgren,

Your answer is correct !!
It will be highly appreciated if you could let me know about the decendants of Perry , living where and what are they doing.

Eddie

Charles Norgren <chuckcool1973@...> wrote:


it was Commarode Matther C. Perry in March 1854

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...> wrote:

From: eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...>
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Question
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM

Hi All,

No one came from U.S.A. as the commander like Tom Cruise to become the warrior helping the old power like Ken Watanabe in real History of Japan.
However, the civil war ? between the old power and the new power was occurred really at the end of Edo era. And the new power defeated the other one to establish New Government , Meiji Government.

By the way , do you know who did open Japan's door which used be closed against foreign countries ?

Since then, Japan really were forced to be changed, to be revoluted to face with barbarians through The pacific Ocean's war.

Japan got the tiny bud of destiny to fight against them later at that time.

Your comment on the above will be highly appreciated.

Eddie

"Haynes, A (Angus)" wrote:

>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not
liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

The Rabobank Group

Australia: 1800 025 484
New Zealand: 0800 500 933
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i will try, it might take me awhile to find out for you

--- On Sat, 5/16/09, eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...> wrote:


From: eddiehiramoto@... <eddiehiramoto@...>
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Question
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 8:11 AM








Hi Charles Norgren,

Your answer is correct !!
It will be highly appreciated if you could let me know about the decendants of Perry , living where and what are they doing.

Eddie

Charles Norgren wrote:


it was Commarode Matther C. Perry in March 1854

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, eddiehiramoto@ yahoo.co. jp wrote:

From: eddiehiramoto@ yahoo.co. jp
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Question
To: samuraihistory@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 2:05 PM

Hi All,

No one came from U.S.A. as the commander like Tom Cruise to become the warrior helping the old power like Ken Watanabe in real History of Japan.
However, the civil war ? between the old power and the new power was occurred really at the end of Edo era. And the new power defeated the other one to establish New Government , Meiji Government.

By the way , do you know who did open Japan's door which used be closed against foreign countries ?

Since then, Japan really were forced to be changed, to be revoluted to face with barbarians through The pacific Ocean's war.

Japan got the tiny bud of destiny to fight against them later at that time.

Your comment on the above will be highly appreciated.

Eddie

"Haynes, A (Angus)" wrote:

>The movie The Last Samurai... is it a real part of history or not?

The movie itself is, yes. It was released in 2003 and as such, is now part of our history.

The events in the movie? No. Some of the characters and events are VERY LOOSELY based on real history, but 99% of it is Holywood fantasy. Read the book 'The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori' by Mark Ravina for the real history behind the character Katsumoto was based on.

-AngusH

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not
liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

The Rabobank Group

Australia: 1800 025 484
New Zealand: 0800 500 933
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

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