Re: Digest Number 620

samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>Samurai was a (hereditary) social status, like the class of the hereditary
>knightly class in Europe -- it wasn't a job. You don't retire from a social
>class. You die.
>
>

Does giving up your name and titles and becoming a monk/nun count?
Though not all monks were truly retired!

Jim Eckman

No, it doesn't count. Exactly like Tony said,
"samurai" was a status, not a job. You can't "give it
up". It's a hereditary social status. You don't do
anything to become a "samurai" but be born to a
samurai family. Generally speaking, you don't do
anything to stop being "samurai" but die. Even if
banished or something, that didn't take away who
someone was. You could be banished to live with the
Hinin or Eta or Ezo or whomever, and you were a
samurai living with the hinin or eta or ezo. You were
born samurai, you lived samurai, you died samurai. No
one ever bothers to ask questions like this about the
Brahmin caste in India. It's very simple.


--- James Eckman <ronin_engineer@...> wrote:

> samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >Samurai was a (hereditary) social status, like the
> class of the hereditary
> >knightly class in Europe -- it wasn't a job. You
> don't retire from a social
> >class. You die.
> >
> >
> Does giving up your name and titles and becoming a
> monk/nun count?
> Though not all monks were truly retired!
>
> Jim Eckman
>
>
>

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No, it doesn't count. Exactly like Tony said,
"samurai" was a status, not a job. You can't "give it
up". It's a hereditary social status. You don't do
anything to become a "samurai" but be born to a
samurai family. Generally speaking, you don't do
anything to stop being "samurai" but die. Even if
banished or something, that didn't take away who
someone was. You could be banished to live with the
Hinin or Eta or Ezo or whomever, and you were a
samurai living with the hinin or eta or ezo. You were
born samurai, you lived samurai, you died samurai. No
one ever bothers to ask questions like this about the
Brahmin caste in India. It's very simple.


--- James Eckman <ronin_engineer@...> wrote:

> samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >Samurai was a (hereditary) social status, like the
> class of the hereditary
> >knightly class in Europe -- it wasn't a job. You
> don't retire from a social
> >class. You die.
> >
> >
> Does giving up your name and titles and becoming a
> monk/nun count?
> Though not all monks were truly retired!
>
> Jim Eckman
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

I appreciate the input, but wonder why list members seem to think it was a
foolish question. Perhaps I phrased my question in a way that is too simplistic.
Some time ago I attended a tea ceremony with a Japanese master of this art.
My family was honored by recieving the first taste of the tea. The man who
performed the tea ceremony explained that the art of tea was often taken up by
samurai as they grew older and took up the pursuits of maturity. For this reason
I thought that the stages of a samurai's life might be named in some way, and
that there might be a partiular label given to the samrai as he matured.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- northdog42@... wrote:

> I appreciate the input, but wonder why list members
> seem to think it was a
> foolish question. Perhaps I phrased my question in a
> way that is too simplistic.

It's not a foolish question. Just one with a simple
answer. What is foolish is when the answer is given,
people want to argue or play semantical games with it.
I didn't mean to imply it was a stupid question--it's
just that many times that kind of question comes from
those who have a ridiculously romanticized idea of
what being a samurai is--that it's some lofty thing
that only those who live by Hagakure and so forth can
obtain. It's not. It's a hereditary social class.
Plain and simple.

Your question is fine. The answer is that you don't
"retire" from being a samurai, anymore than I would
retire from being American. It's something you are
born as. If you're looking for a particular word that
describes a samurai who is no longer active in the
world, then there isn't one, specifically. There are
words for monk, if he becomes one, or recluse, or so
forth, but not anything that means "a samurai who no
longer does anything".

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