Re: Clocks

Some of the English and French clocks of the period have an insane
amount of dials that tracks tides, moonrise, sunset, etc. Clocks are one
of the few areas where Europe was far ahead of the East starting in the
12-1300's with the invention of the verge escapement. Part of the reason
for this of course is that other cultures didn't have to pray at exact
times like the Catholic church of the period insisted on. I do remember
seeing a book on the subject but if I recollect properly, clockmaking
doesn't get started until the Jesuits show up.

Still cool for later period stuff.

Some stuff off a website:

We have a number of such books on general or specific technologies
published during the period, as never existed in the preceding era.
Progress in printing and the demand for information from industrialists
stimulated their publication. Number, variety and contents of these
books far more superseded those written in the contemporary China, and
we may compare them with the Renaissance and Baroque technical books of
Europe. Most of them are reprinted with commentary and notes by modern
editors.

We can classify these books in several categories: first, compendium or
encyclopedia; second, picture book; third, practical text; and fourth,
memorandum of practioner. Karakuri-kimmo-kagamigusa (automaton) 1730;
Karakuri-zui (clock & automaton) 1796;

In addition to these books local historians are searching for materials
of related subjects in unpublished letters or reports.

More:

The first mechanical clocks introduced to Japan were probably Italian
and Dutch clocks presented as gifts by European merchants in the early
to mid sixteenth century. Between 1550 and 1650 there was a strong
missionary influence in Japan, particularly the Jesuits, who taught
clock making. In 1650 all Europeans were ejected from Japan with the
exception of a small European enclave at Nagasaki. Early Japanese clocks
therefore used Western technology to keep the Chino/Japanese time system.

This time system divides the day into two parts, each with six two hours
periods. The first is from sun up to sun down and the second from sun
down to sun up. The problem is obviously that with changing seasons the
dark hours and the light hours will be relatively longer or shorter.
This resulted in two kinds of clock, one with a variable running speed
and fixed markers or one with a constant running speed and movable markers.

In 1853 Perry re-established a European presence in Japan and in 1873
the Japanese revoked their traditional time keeping system and adopted
Western time keeping. Traditional Japanese clocks have therefore become
very collectible.

More:!
When the Dutch factory chief Isaac Titsingh left Japan in 1784, he
decided to take home a local timepiece. He was furious with the
shogunate for its intransigence and stymieing of trade, and feigned
illness to be relieved on his post ahead of schedule. But the clocks of
Japan were something for which he had nothing but admiration. "I
examined a clock", he wrote on his return, "in the palace of the
governor of Nagasaki; and as the construction seemed curious, I was
desirous of bringing one with me from Japan." Yet trade being fettered
as it was, "the high price demanded for them deprived me of this
gratification" (Isaac Titsingh, /Illustrations of Japan/, 1822; p.159).
Fortunately later travellers were better heeled, and there are clock
collections in the West. But we have waited until now for a proper
exhibition of Japanese clocks in all their 'curiousness'. This wonderful
show (which goes far beyond just clocks) should not be missed.

Many items used in Japanese time-keeping are not indigenous, and had
Titsingh looked closer, he might have seen workings not dissimilar to
European ones; very possibly the governor's clock included imported
parts. Steel springs could not be made in Japan, neither could small
cogwheels. In fact, clocks and pocket watches were extensively imported
to Japan, where the latter became known as "London clocks"
(/rondon-dokei/); it is often forgotten that England lost its
horological priority to Switzerland only in the 19th century. A samurai
and wit, Ota Nanpo, wrote of the situation in Edo at just the moment
Titsingh was in town. "No-one was without an imported European clock
slipped in at his breast" (Ota Nanpo, 'Ichiwa ichigon', in /Zoku nihon
zuihitsu taisei/, supplement, 1978, p.197).

Time is told differently in different parts of the globe, and it was a
feature of Japanese time telling to assign six hours to daylight and six
to darkness. This meant that, other than at the equinoxes, a day-time
and a night-time hour were not the same, and that they fluctuated
against each other throughout the year. Full time 'masters of clocks'
(/tokeishi/) regulated the weights that hung from the gyrating spindles
to retard or quicken movement. Not for nothing went the comic verse,


However cunningly made,
A clock's workings
Are just too many
/Dô kufû shite mo tokei/
/no wa ga amari/
/Haifû yanagi-daru/



'screech3006_1',229,455,1);>



'screech3006_1',229,455,1);>*Mechanical Japanese Clock*
Japan, Edo period (1615-1868)

Time in Japan's cities was mostly measured by the booming of hour-bells
(/toki no kane/), either those erected for the purpose, or those
co-opted from local temples. The bell at the city entrance to Edo rang
an hour ahead to ensure those going to attend at the castle would never
be late. Edo's main hour-bell was in Kokuchô, which happened to be by
the Dutch East India Company's hostel. This spawned many jokes of a
culturally relative kind.

This is fundamentally an art exhibition, and the technical pieces on
display are mostly given the backdrop of a painting or print
illustrating them in real spaces. /Ukiyo-e/ prints – the forte of
Timothy Clark who curated this show – are copiously used in evidence.
More than half of the gallery is given over to other instances of
time-telling, such as representations of the signs of the so-called
Chinese Zodiac (actually not a zodiac at all), with which most people
today are familiar. These signs (monkey, cock, tiger, etc.) were used in
fashion ornaments, such as /netsuke/ toggles, or were the subject of
full-blown paintings. A painting of a dragon, for example, would be
appropriate to put out in a Year of the Dragon (like 2000), and as the
signs came around every 12 years, it was worth the cost of buying such
things, each according to their budget. People might display the sign of
their birth, and the grave of the third Shogun, Iemitsu, is covered with
hares, as this was his natal sign.

The cycle of the year has a place in the heart of anyone who has
received a Japanese education, and paintings of the four seasons, the
twelve months, or the festivals and events proper to these are all
common in Japanese visual arts. It is a feature of Japanese painting,
not seen elsewhere on the Asian continent, to depict a single landscape
across a complete year, usually with two seasons per screen across a
pair. Some good examples are on display in the Japan Time exhibition.

Yet More!

*/A very rare and unusual watch. The Japanese based their method of
timekeeping on a Chinese system which is somewhat eccentric, the length
of their periods of time altering throughout the year. Each 24 hour day
is divided into its two natural sections, day and night. These are then
divided into six equal parts. This necessitates allowing mechanical
timekeepers to have adjustable markings. Timepieces made for the
Japanese market are rare. This is the only example of a clockwatch we
have seen. The case itself is also somewhat odd, being large and deep.
It would have originally had a protective case or box made of leather or
perhaps wood. /*


I've probably bored you silly now.
Sumimasen,
Jim Eckman

HI James and others

thanks some really nice info on time keeping in Japan
during and after the Edo period, but what about before
then

Surely they didnt wait for the cock to crow. There
must have been some method of time keeping so that
occassions and events could start at a set time.

I have a friend in Japan who is interested in history
I willask him also and post here if he has anything to
add

paul



--- James Eckman <FUGU@...> wrote:

> Some of the English and French clocks of the period
> have an insane
> amount of dials that tracks tides, moonrise, sunset,
> etc. Clocks are one
> of the few areas where Europe was far ahead of the
> East starting in the
> 12-1300's with the invention of the verge
> escapement. Part of the reason
> for this of course is that other cultures didn't
> have to pray at exact
> times like the Catholic church of the period
> insisted on. I do remember
> seeing a book on the subject but if I recollect
> properly, clockmaking
> doesn't get started until the Jesuits show up.
>
> Still cool for later period stuff.
>
> Some stuff off a website:
>
> We have a number of such books on general or
> specific technologies
> published during the period, as never existed in the
> preceding era.
> Progress in printing and the demand for information
> from industrialists
> stimulated their publication. Number, variety and
> contents of these
> books far more superseded those written in the
> contemporary China, and
> we may compare them with the Renaissance and Baroque
> technical books of
> Europe. Most of them are reprinted with commentary
> and notes by modern
> editors.
>
> We can classify these books in several categories:
> first, compendium or
> encyclopedia; second, picture book; third, practical
> text; and fourth,
> memorandum of practioner. Karakuri-kimmo-kagamigusa
> (automaton) 1730;
> Karakuri-zui (clock & automaton) 1796; > snip>
>
> In addition to these books local historians are
> searching for materials
> of related subjects in unpublished letters or
> reports.
>
> More:
>
> The first mechanical clocks introduced to Japan were
> probably Italian
> and Dutch clocks presented as gifts by European
> merchants in the early
> to mid sixteenth century. Between 1550 and 1650
> there was a strong
> missionary influence in Japan, particularly the
> Jesuits, who taught
> clock making. In 1650 all Europeans were ejected
> from Japan with the
> exception of a small European enclave at Nagasaki.
> Early Japanese clocks
> therefore used Western technology to keep the
> Chino/Japanese time system.
>
> This time system divides the day into two parts,
> each with six two hours
> periods. The first is from sun up to sun down and
> the second from sun
> down to sun up. The problem is obviously that with
> changing seasons the
> dark hours and the light hours will be relatively
> longer or shorter.
> This resulted in two kinds of clock, one with a
> variable running speed
> and fixed markers or one with a constant running
> speed and movable markers.
>
> In 1853 Perry re-established a European presence in
> Japan and in 1873
> the Japanese revoked their traditional time keeping
> system and adopted
> Western time keeping. Traditional Japanese clocks
> have therefore become
> very collectible.
>
> More:!
> When the Dutch factory chief Isaac Titsingh left
> Japan in 1784, he
> decided to take home a local timepiece. He was
> furious with the
> shogunate for its intransigence and stymieing of
> trade, and feigned
> illness to be relieved on his post ahead of
> schedule. But the clocks of
> Japan were something for which he had nothing but
> admiration. "I
> examined a clock", he wrote on his return, "in the
> palace of the
> governor of Nagasaki; and as the construction seemed
> curious, I was
> desirous of bringing one with me from Japan." Yet
> trade being fettered
> as it was, "the high price demanded for them
> deprived me of this
> gratification" (Isaac Titsingh, /Illustrations of
> Japan/, 1822; p.159).
> Fortunately later travellers were better heeled, and
> there are clock
> collections in the West. But we have waited until
> now for a proper
> exhibition of Japanese clocks in all their
> 'curiousness'. This wonderful
> show (which goes far beyond just clocks) should not
> be missed.
>
> Many items used in Japanese time-keeping are not
> indigenous, and had
> Titsingh looked closer, he might have seen workings
> not dissimilar to
> European ones; very possibly the governor's clock
> included imported
> parts. Steel springs could not be made in Japan,
> neither could small
> cogwheels. In fact, clocks and pocket watches were
> extensively imported
> to Japan, where the latter became known as "London
> clocks"
> (/rondon-dokei/); it is often forgotten that England
> lost its
> horological priority to Switzerland only in the 19th
> century. A samurai
> and wit, Ota Nanpo, wrote of the situation in Edo at
> just the moment
> Titsingh was in town. "No-one was without an
> imported European clock
> slipped in at his breast" (Ota Nanpo, 'Ichiwa
> ichigon', in /Zoku nihon
> zuihitsu taisei/, supplement, 1978, p.197).
>
> Time is told differently in different parts of the
> globe, and it was a
> feature of Japanese time telling to assign six hours
> to daylight and six
> to darkness. This meant that, other than at the
> equinoxes, a day-time
> and a night-time hour were not the same, and that
> they fluctuated
> against each other throughout the year. Full time
> 'masters of clocks'
> (/tokeishi/) regulated the weights that hung from
> the gyrating spindles
> to retard or quicken movement. Not for nothing went
> the comic verse,
>
>
> However cunningly made,
> A clock's workings
> Are just too many
> /D� kuf� shite mo tokei/
> /no wa ga amari/
> /Haif� yanagi-daru/
>
>
>
> > 'P00852_I00721_01123_pop.html',
> 'screech3006_1',229,455,1);>
>
>
>
> > 'P00852_I00721_01123_pop.html',
> 'screech3006_1',229,455,1);>*Mechanical Japanese
> Clock*
> Japan, Edo period (1615-1868)
>
> Time in Japan's cities was mostly measured by the
> booming of hour-bells
> (/toki no kane/), either those erected for the
> purpose, or those
> co-opted from local temples. The bell at the city
> entrance to Edo rang
> an hour ahead to ensure those going to attend at the
> castle would never
> be late. Edo's main hour-bell was in Kokuch�, which
> happened to be by
> the Dutch East India Company's hostel. This spawned
> many jokes of a
> culturally relative kind.
>
> This is fundamentally an art exhibition, and the
> technical pieces on
> display are mostly given the backdrop of a painting
> or print
> illustrating them in real spaces. /Ukiyo-e/ prints �
> the forte of
> Timothy Clark who curated this show � are copiously
> used in evidence.
> More than half of the gallery is given over to other
> instances of
> time-telling, such as representations of the signs
> of the so-called
> Chinese Zodiac (actually not a zodiac at all), with
> which most people
> today are familiar. These signs (monkey, cock,
> tiger, etc.) were used in
> fashion ornaments, such as /netsuke/ toggles, or
> were the subject of
> full-blown paintings. A painting of a dragon, for
> example, would be
> appropriate to put out in a Year of the Dragon (like
> 2000), and as the
> signs came around every 12 years, it was worth the
> cost of buying such
> things, each according to their budget. People might
> display the sign of
> their birth, and the grave of the third Shogun,
> Iemitsu, is covered with
> hares, as this was his natal sign.
>
> The cycle of the year has a place in the heart of
> anyone who has
> received a Japanese education, and paintings of the
> four seasons, the
> twelve months, or the festivals and events proper to
> these are all
> common in Japanese visual arts. It is a feature of
> Japanese painting,
> not seen elsewhere on the Asian continent, to depict
> a single landscape
> across a complete year, usually with two seasons per
> screen across a
> pair. Some good examples are on display in the Japan
> Time exhibition.
>
> Yet More!
>
> */A very rare and unusual watch. The Japanese based
> their method of
> timekeeping on a Chinese system which is somewhat
> eccentric, the length
> of their periods of time altering throughout the
> year. Each 24 hour day
> is divided into its two natural sections, day and
> night. These are then
> divided into six equal parts. This necessitates
> allowing mechanical
> timekeepers to have adjustable markings. Timepieces
> made for the
> Japanese market are rare. This is the only example
> of a clockwatch we
> have seen. The case itself is also somewhat odd,
> being large and deep.
> It would have originally had a protective case or
> box made of leather or
> perhaps wood. /*
>
>
> I've probably bored you silly now.
> Sumimasen,
> Jim Eckman
>
>
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Hey there. Me again.
Maybe I can be of some help. (Maybe not, time will tell. 8-)!) Some time
ago now, I got a copy of the Tale of the Heike. (Didn't finish it: got too
bogged down with titles and the complicatedness of the story itself. But I do
plan to read -- and finish -- it someday. That, the Tale of the Genji and the
Taiheiki.) In it was a chart listing the times of the day, and they were in
twelve two-hour blocks, each named with a corresponding part of the Chinese
Zodiac, and went in order of that system (i.e., hour of the dragon, hour of the
snake, &c.). Which one started the cycle I don't remember, but it was on the
odd hours. If I'm not mistaken, it went as follows:

WESTERN JAPANESE
2300 to 0100 Rat
0100 to 0300 Ox
0300 to 0500 Tiger
0500 to 0700 Rabbit
0700 to 0900 Dragon
0900 to 1100 Snake
1100 to 1300 Horse
1300 to 1500 Goat
1500 to 1700 Monkey
1700 to 1900 Rooster
1900 to 2100 Dog
2100 to 2300 Pig

Now whether this was ACTUALLY used or not, and whether or not I've got my
times right, I'm not sure. I don't want to question the historicity of the
Tale of the Heike, but it is a novel, if memory serves me correctly.
Hope this helps. 8-)

Later
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tim

this is something I have hear dof. lets hope one of
the more knowledgable member sof the list will
recognise this and confirm it

paul


--- Eponymous13@... wrote:

---------------------------------
Hey there. Me again.
Maybe I can be of some help. (Maybe not, time will
tell. 8-)!) Some time
ago now, I got a copy of the Tale of the Heike.
(Didn't finish it: got too
bogged down with titles and the complicatedness of the
story itself. But I do
plan to read -- and finish -- it someday. That, the
Tale of the Genji and the
Taiheiki.) In it was a chart listing the times of the
day, and they were in
twelve two-hour blocks, each named with a
corresponding part of the Chinese
Zodiac, and went in order of that system (i.e., hour
of the dragon, hour of the
snake, &c.). Which one started the cycle I don't
remember, but it was on the
odd hours. If I'm not mistaken, it went as follows:

WESTERN JAPANESE
2300 to 0100 Rat
0100 to 0300 Ox
0300 to 0500 Tiger
0500 to 0700 Rabbit
0700 to 0900 Dragon
0900 to 1100 Snake
1100 to 1300 Horse
1300 to 1500 Goat
1500 to 1700 Monkey
1700 to 1900 Rooster
1900 to 2100 Dog
2100 to 2300 Pig

Now whether this was ACTUALLY used or not, and
whether or not I've got my
times right, I'm not sure. I don't want to question
the historicity of the
Tale of the Heike, but it is a novel, if memory serves
me correctly.
Hope this helps. 8-)

Later
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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