Exactly. I found it very strange that even though Kenshin is not
mentioned at all anywhere in the body of the text but just a line
added afterwards saying "later, it was thought it was Terutora
(Kenshin)" it has become almost common knowledge that kenshin and
shingen fought each other during the battle. It looks to me like the
writer just heard a rumor and threw it in for the heck of it. I
think if it was verifiably kenshin, it would have mentioned it in the
actual body of the text. Do any other sources put Kenshin as the
attacker, or just the Koyo Gunkan?
--- In
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Shinsei"
wrote:
> Hi,
> Terutora is the name of Kenshin at that time.Given one letter from
> the name of Yoshiteru,Ashikaga Shogun,he changed his name.
> So,the author of Koyo gunkan says he heard the rider was Kenshin.
>
> It might have been just a rumor though.,,
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "iganokami"
wrote:
> > I just picked up the Koyo Gunkan - I don't know if it is
> the 'short'
> > version or what (I've heard in the past the Koyo Gunkan was three
> or
> > four volumes - this is a single volume), but anyway, I was
flipping
> > through it, and I found the passage that mentions the famed
> personal
> > combat between Shingen and Kenshin at 4th Kawanakajima that I've
> seen
> > mentioned on this group. It tells about the attack, how the
rider
> > was driven off by Hara Osumi, etc. But NOWHERE in that passage
> does
> > it mention that the rider was Kenshin! After the passage, there
is
> a
> > single line-- It says something to the effect of 'later, it was
> said
> > this was Terutora' (my reading of Kobun is not very advanced, but
> > it's a short sentence that looks something like 'Ato Kikeba' the
> > warrior terutora (followed by the Kanji for 'mousu' combined with
> the
> > kanji for kou/sourou (10 strokes, ninben). So it looks to me
like
> > the Koyo Gunkan doesn't even really claim it was Kenshin at all,
> only
> > that later it was said it was. I guess some playwrite for some
Noh
> > drama about 4th Kawanakajima in the 18th century must have
decided
> it
> > would be nice and epic if he had kenshin and shingen fight it out
> > onstage, and that is how it got started that shingen and
> > kenshin 'definately fought' at that battle....? anyone have any
> > insight? I know someone mentioned another source that said it
was
> > thier Kagemusha fighting each other....