Re: Clan Genealogies -- just a side question

It's me again.
Just wondering. Oda Nobunaga had at least -- at LEAST -- two sisters. (My
guess is that there were more.) One was Oichi-no-kata, married to Shibata
Katsuie (twice) and Asai Nagamasa. The other was married to Takeda
Katsuyori. Does anybody know what HER name was? If she had one? As I said,
just wondering. I've never seen a name or lifedates for her, only that her
husband died with the last of his clan at the hands of her brother and his
armies. Or was she another of the unnamed women who were tragically used
solely for strategic purposes? Thanks again! (-:

Later,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oda Nobunaga's daughter was married to Takeda Katsuyori, not a
sister. I don't know her name or who her mother was, although I'm in
the arduous process of putting it all together.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> It's me again.
> Just wondering. Oda Nobunaga had at least -- at LEAST -- two
sisters. (My
> guess is that there were more.) One was Oichi-no-kata, married to
Shibata
> Katsuie (twice) and Asai Nagamasa. The other was married to Takeda
> Katsuyori. Does anybody know what HER name was? If she had one?
As I said,
> just wondering. I've never seen a name or lifedates for her, only
that her
> husband died with the last of his clan at the hands of her brother
and his
> armies. Or was she another of the unnamed women who were
tragically used
> solely for strategic purposes? Thanks again! (-:
>
> Later,
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The daugter who married Katsuyori was Nobunaga's stepdaughter.Her
father was Naegi Kantaro(he is said to be either Touyama Naokado or
Touyama Tomokatsu).And her mother was Nobunaga's sister,Okatsu-no-
kata.Nobunaga adopted her and said to cherish more than his real
children.
She was called Touyama-bunin in Takeda.Takeda Nobukatsu was the son
of Katsuyori and her.

As for Matsuhime,Shingen's daughter,Shingen undid the promise of her
marriage to Nobutada when Oda helped Tokugawa in Mikatagahara battle.
It is said Nobtada and Matsu loved each other,and Nobutada proposed
marriage to her again after Takeda clan was extinct,but on her way to
see Nobutada,she knew his death in Honnouji incident.She remained
single all her life.




--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno "
wrote:

> Oda Nobunaga's daughter was married to Takeda Katsuyori, not a
> sister. I don't know her name or who her mother was, although I'm

in

> the arduous process of putting it all together.
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> > It's me again.
> > Just wondering. Oda Nobunaga had at least -- at LEAST -- two
> sisters. (My
> > guess is that there were more.) One was Oichi-no-kata, married

to

> Shibata
> > Katsuie (twice) and Asai Nagamasa. The other was married to

Takeda

> > Katsuyori. Does anybody know what HER name was? If she had

one?

> As I said,
> > just wondering. I've never seen a name or lifedates for her,

only

> that her
> > husband died with the last of his clan at the hands of her

brother

> and his
> > armies. Or was she another of the unnamed women who were
> tragically used
> > solely for strategic purposes? Thanks again! (-:
> >
> > Later,
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is what I have so far for The decendants of Takeda Nobutora so
far (just the first two generations) - one problem I have is I don't
know which of his children were from the daughter of Ooi Nobutatsu,
and who were from other women, so I currently have them all lumped
under her. Same as before, the * means that they show up more than
once, and the index at the end of the section helps to make more
sense of the whole thing - basicaly 1.1 and 1.2 would be siblings,
and 1.1.1 would be the child of 1.1 - it all makes sense after a
while).

Any help or pointing out of mistakes is greatly appreciated:

1 Nobutora Takeda
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1493
Death: 1573
Father: Nobutsuna Takeda (-1507)

Spouse: (Lady) Ooi
Father: Nobutatsu Ooi

Children: Harunobu (Shingen) (1521-1573)
Nobukado (-1582)
Nobushige (1525-1561)
Nobuzane (-1575)
Nobukore (-1571)
Nobutatsu (-1582)

1.1a Harunobu (Shingen) Takeda*
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1521, Yogai Castle, Kai Province
Death: 1573

Spouse: Koihime Suwa
Father: Yorishige Suwa

Children: Katsuyori (1546-1582)

Other Spouses (Lady) Sanjo, (Lady) Aburagawa, Lady Uesugi, (Lady) Nezu

1.1a.1a Katsuyori Takeda*
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1546
Death: 1582

Spouse: Touyama-Bunin Oda
Father: Nobunaga Oda (1534-1582)
Mother: UNNAMED

Children: Nobukatsu

Other Spouses (Lady) Hojo

1.1a.1b Katsuyori Takeda* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: (Lady) Hojo
Birth: 1564
Death: 1582
Father: Ujiyasu Hojo (1515-1571)
Mother: (Lady) Matsuda

Other Spouses Touyama-Bunin Oda

1.1b Harunobu (Shingen) Takeda* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: (Lady) Sanjo
Death: 1570

Children: Yoshinobu (1538-1567)
Oboin
Nobuyuki (-1564)
Nobuchika (1541-1582)

Other Spouses Koihime Suwa, (Lady) Aburagawa, Lady Uesugi, (Lady) Nezu

1.1b.1 Yoshinobu Takeda
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1538
Death: 1567

Spouse: Imagawa
Father: Yoshimoto Imagawa
Marr: 1552

1.1b.2 Oboin Takeda
----------------------------------------

Eldest Daughter of Takeda Shingen.

Spouse: Ujimasa Hojo
Birth: 1538
Death: 1590
Father: Ujiyasu Hojo (1515-1571)
Mother: UNNAMED

Children: Ujinao

1.1b.3 Nobuyuki Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1564

1.1b.4 Nobuchika Takeda
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1541
Death: 1582

1.1c Harunobu (Shingen) Takeda* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: (Lady) Aburagawa
Father: Nobumori Aburagawa

Children: Harukiyo (Morinobu) (~1557-1582)
Kikuhime
Nobusada
Matsuhime

Other Spouses Koihime Suwa, (Lady) Sanjo, Lady Uesugi, (Lady) Nezu

1.1c.1 Harukiyo (Morinobu) Takeda (Nishina)
----------------------------------------
Birth: abt 1557
Death: 1582

1.1c.2 Kikuhime Takeda
----------------------------------------

Spouse: Kagekatsu Uesugi (Nagao)
Birth: 1555
Death: 1623
Father: Masakage Nagao (-1564)
Mother: Sentouin

1.1c.3 Nobusada Takeda
----------------------------------------

1.1c.4 Matsuhime Takeda
----------------------------------------

1.1d Harunobu (Shingen) Takeda* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: Lady Uesugi
Death: 1534
Father: Tomooki Uesugi

No Children

Other Spouses Koihime Suwa, (Lady) Sanjo, (Lady) Aburagawa, (Lady)
Nezu

1.1e Harunobu (Shingen) Takeda* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: (Lady) Nezu
Father: Motonaro Nezu

Other Spouses Koihime Suwa, (Lady) Sanjo, (Lady) Aburagawa, Lady
Uesugi

1.2 Nobukado Takeda
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1529?
Death: 1582

1.3 Nobushige Takeda
----------------------------------------
Birth: 1525
Death: 1561

Children: Nobuyori
Nobutoyo (-1582)
Nobumasa (-1575)

1.3.1 Nobuyori Takeda
----------------------------------------

1.3.2 Nobutoyo Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1582

1.3.3 Nobumasa Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1575

Children: Masayori (-1582)

1.4 Nobuzane Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1575

1.5 Nobukore Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1571

1.6 Nobutatsu Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1582

Children: Nobunari (-1582)

1.6.1 Nobunari Takeda
----------------------------------------
Death: 1582



Index

Aburagawa
(Lady) spouse of 1.1c
Hojo
(Lady) spouse of 1.1a.1b
Ujimasa spouse of 1.1b.2
Ujinao child of 1.1b.2
Imagawa
UNNAMED spouse of 1.1b.1
Nezu
(Lady) spouse of 1.1e
Oda
Touyama-Bunin spouse of 1.1a.1a
Ooi
(Lady) spouse of 1
Sanjo
(Lady) spouse of 1.1b
Suwa
Koihime spouse of 1.1a
Takeda
Harunobu (Shingen) 1.1a
Katsuyori 1.1a.1a
Kikuhime 1.1c.2
Masayori child of 1.3.3
Matsuhime 1.1c.4
Nobuchika 1.1b.4
Nobukado 1.2
Nobukatsu child of 1.1a.1a
Nobukore 1.5
Nobumasa 1.3.3
Nobunari 1.6.1
Nobusada 1.1c.3
Nobushige 1.3
Nobutatsu 1.6
Nobutora 1
Nobutoyo 1.3.2
Nobuyori 1.3.1
Nobuyuki 1.1b.3
Nobuzane 1.4
Oboin 1.1b.2
Yoshinobu 1.1b.1
Takeda (Nishina)
Harukiyo (Morinobu) 1.1c.1
Uesugi
Lady spouse of 1.1d
Uesugi Nagao
Kagekatsu spouse of 1.1c.2

This is not meant to be humourous -- if it is, great, b/c I got a bit of a
chuckle out of it myself -- but is it just me or was the name "NOBU"
extremely popular in 16th-century Japan? (The most famous obviously being
ODA Nobunaga.) I've seen it with AT LEAST a couple dozen extensions on both
sides (e.g., Hidenobu and Nobuo, &c.) And does anyone know if it still is?
Just wondering. Thanks.

Later.
T


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From a strictly technical standpoint, "Nobu" isn't any more popular
than any other. Each clan had certain characters that they used to
excess. The Oda clan used "Nobu" to death --- if you look at any
major Sengoku clan, you see this. Look at the Mori clan. "Moto" was
used at least as much with them as "Nobu" with the Oda: Hidemoto,
Terumoto, Motonari, Okimoto, Takamoto, Motoharu, Motokiyo, Motoaki,
Motoyasu, Mototomo, etc. Another example is the Hojo clan. You'll
find at least a dozen instances of "Uji".

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Eponymous13@a... wrote:
> This is not meant to be humourous -- if it is, great, b/c I got a
bit of a
> chuckle out of it myself -- but is it just me or was the
name "NOBU"
> extremely popular in 16th-century Japan? (The most famous
obviously being
> ODA Nobunaga.) I've seen it with AT LEAST a couple dozen
extensions on both
> sides (e.g., Hidenobu and Nobuo, &c.) And does anyone know if it
still is?
> Just wondering. Thanks.
>
> Later.
> T
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]