Home - Back

I hit the information jackpot!

- [Previous Topic] [Next Topic]
#987 [2004-06-05 18:30:12]

I hit the information jackpot!

by warg3791

Ok, I have lots of new info to share with you! One of you with
translation skills should really have a look at this and try to
clarify a few points for us! Especially the last site I'm going to
list!

The first place I'm going to draw your attention to is one some of
you may have found before. Not a lot of info, but there's a map on
one of the pages of the inside of the Yagi residence, where the
Shinsengumi stayed for some time. If you click on the arrows, the
picture below it changes to offer different views of the interior of
the building. The site is:
http://www.mibu-yagike.jp/

Also, you might want to have a peek at this site. There is some
random bits of info attached to the different pictures. One is a
picture of the monument in Hokkaido that is located on the spot where
Hijikata is rumored to have been killed. Beside it it says:
"A fierce attack of the new government force was started to wait for
a thaw of spring. Hijikata whom I asked conduct to go to rescue of
wife of chief zen-priest Daiba by a box building all-out attack of
May 11 hit a bullet in 1869 (1869) and was killed in action. Enomoto
force surrendered soon, and the Boshin War was over."

That was the gist translation. The Babelfish says:
"In order to wait for the thawing of snow of the spring, onslaught of
the new government troop was started. That 1869 (1869) with box
mansion all out attack May 11th, it probably will face to the rescue
of the Sarasvati stand place, the manuel laborer who takes direction
died in battle, hitting against the gun circle. Promptly, the Enomoto
troop surrendering ended (?) War."

I take it that the "wife of chief zen-priest Daiba" was some sort of
temple? The site in question is:
http://www.city.hino.tokyo.jp/museum/sinsengumi/top/sinsengumi_top_non
flash.html It's the Hinocity Furusato Museum. And no, "sinsengumi"
is not a mistake. That's how they spelled it.

The next site is more or less one page of info. I have no idea where
they got this from. It's something I've never heard before, so I'm
asking for confirmation of the details. It states that during the
fight Nagakura's sword broke and his left thumb was cut off?! The
reference to Toudou's injury I've found on the other two sites, but
if they mention that Nagakura lost his thumb it's been lost in
translation. The site in question is:
http://geocities.com/koyochinbutai/1864.html

You can change the year number to get to other pages. Most have
little more than the major events of the year listed, resulting in
pages with no more than two lines on them. And the injury that Toudou
received in PMK? The cut to the forehead? That appears to have been
the injury he suffered in the real battle.

Now we're getting to the REAL info! I found the next two sites by
accident. Again one was hidden by an unusual spelling of Nagakura's
first name. They called him "Sinpachi". The site isn't extensive.
Some of the listed areas have no inforomation at all, so it might be
a new site under development. The main point of interest is what it
has to say about Shinpachi's (or "Sinpachi's") role in the Ikeda-ya
affair. It also gives a brief bio of his life, which mentions among
other things the quarrel with Kondo! Apparently Nagakura was
given "good behavior disposal" for two months over the incident. No
word on whether anyone else was given similar penalties. However, I
would assume this was the case. Later it refers to his meeting up
with a "geisha" he had been involved with before the war and meeting
his daughter, apparently for the first time! The site is:
http://www.bushinavi.com/~sinpachi/sinpachi.htm

The jackpot however was this final site. It lists info about EVERY
ONE of the Captains!!! Of course some to this we've heard before, but
some is very new (at least to me)! Here's a small sampler of the more
outrageous info I discovered. [I had to use a translator other than
Babelfish. That one wouldn't work for me.]

Hijikata:
-The person he fooled around with in the shop when he was 17 was
a "maid of a shop".
-He went to Edo to appeal for a rescue of Kondo, using the
name "Hayato Naito".
Okita:
-If I'm reading this right, he had a short-temper when teaching
kendo and many were more afraid of him than Kondo at such times!
Saito:
-Apparently the Shin Kepp miniseries wasn't wrong about him dropping
out of the Shinsengumi! He parted company from Kondo and Hijikata at
the same time Nagakura and Harada did! It looks like he headed off to
Aizu on his own. But as we all know, he met up with Hijikata once
again before the war was over and ended up leading the Shinsengumi
for him while he was wounded.
-This site says he entered the "police superintendent station" in
1872.
Matsubara Tadaji (4th Captain and someone I've never seen anything
on!):
-Seems to have killed someone from Anzai when he was coming back from
Gion, due to the fact he was drunk.
-He finds out that the man had a wife and an ill child and "from
sympathy" begins to take care of them. I think it's saying that he
couldn't bring himself to tell the wife he was the one who killed
him. He also fell in love with the wife!!!
-Hijikata doesn't seem to have liked the situation one bit. Somehow
Matsubara comes to try to commit seppuku. What actually happened to
him doesn't appear to be clear. His first attempt may have failed,
but the wound didn't heal properly and eventually led to his death.
There is also the story he and the wife committed suicide together or
that he was made to kill himself for some other reason.
There is something on the Captain of the Seventh Unit, Tani
Sanjuurou. I think it's implying Saito might have killed him, but I
can't make real heads or tails of it. His death is listed as "sudden
illness".
Suzuki Mikisaburou (9th Captain. How could I possibly leave this guy
out?! phil would hurt me!):
-It says that he "belong to the Satsuma armed forces by a fight of
Fushimi, Toba, and I join a red report corps, but I return to Tokyo,
and I am imprisoned after having left it. The release back goes to
the front of sergeant or Aizu, but, for the end of the war, returns
to Tokyo."
-You might want to sit down for this one phil! It says later that he
met "Nagakura new 8 in Kyoto in 1869 and I try a surprise attack, but
end in an attempt." So he DID try one last time for some revenge!!!
Harada Sanosuke (10th Captain):
-Seems like he died of a gunshot wound to the back two days after the
battle at Uneo in the house of Honjo Sarue-cho.
Shimada Kai:
-He was around six feet tall and had a sweet tooth, but "can't drink
a liquor drop."
-He not only ran a dojo later in life, but at one point after the war
he worked as a saleclerk of a Buddhist altar fittings shop! Is anyone
else thinking "Monk Anji"?!
-Forget Saito secretary! Sounds like Shimada was the handy one to
have around for those tough situations! Poor Nagakura couldn't jump
an earthen wall at Toba-Fushimi and he had to help him. Then later on
he carried Hijikata off the field on his back when the Vice-Commander
was wounded in the foot at Shirakawa!
The last person mentioned is Shinohara Tainoshin (though they list
his name as Shinohara Taisuke). He was in investigations and was
another follower of Itou's and appears to have also joined the
Sekihoutai. Like Miki, he survived the war and lived to the ripe old
age of 84, passing away on June 13, 1911. It says that in later years
he "became a pious Christian."
The link to this final site is:
http://www2.plala.or.jp/shyall/retuden/sinsengumi.html

And to think I discovered all this by accident!!!

-MissBehavin (trying NOT to think about how lucky that "maid of a
shop" was...)

[Next #990]

#990 [2004-06-05 19:00:19]

Re: I hit the information jackpot!

by secretarytocapt3

wait wait WAIT...what program/site are you using to translate?
Translate that Seinan War newspaper article on 3-hajime/1to5.net
please....
I still can't quiet understand the replies to my messages on
http://www.3-hajime.com/cgi-local/patio/patio.cgi?mode=view&no=16
and
http://www.tamahito.com/whoswho.htm (which mentions ANOTHER Saitou
Hajime in the Shinsengumi)
does it REALLY say that Nakajima Nobori grew orchids? Or is it his
wife's name or something...it is in the same sentence talking about
his firearms shop. This detail interests me because orchids are very
hard to cultivate ^_^ you really have to have a green thumb to have
them grow successfully.
All of this info really makes things even more intriguing ... because
you may have already read that Saitou was -sent- to Aizu with a couple
of guys ahead of time...because there were battles at Aizu with many
members of the Shinsengumi (Nakajima Nobori included) we have
rosters...there was another Japanese site that said Shimada Kai was
thick necked this no doubt means that he was "buff". It is
unfortunate, but people can change for better or worst...in the case
of Kondo, his story was a true rags to riches/power scenario and this
probably resulted in the clash with other managment level guys. The
situation was so critical and stress levels must've been
high...dissent is normal when it comes to important tactical decisions.

I also posted a question in English to a member of the 3-hajime.com
board, his/her name is "Passenger", about the whole business with the
towel.

Wow, I wonder if Miki tracked down Nagakura...what made them stop
fighting...

I'm impressed with Shimada Kai...have you guys seen how fancy Japanese
Buddhist altars can get? Some altars are HUGE...I'm happy that he had
a nice and peaceful job.

[Previous #987] [Next #993]

#993 [2004-06-05 21:13:19]

Re: [SHQ] Re: I hit the information jackpot!

by warg3791

In a message dated 6/5/2004 10:01:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
secretarytocapt3@... writes:
Translate that Seinan War newspaper article on 3-hajime/1to5.net
please....
I still can't quiet understand the replies to my messages on
http://www.3-hajime.com/cgi-local/patio/patio.cgi?mode=view&no=16
and
http://www.tamahito.com/whoswho.htm (which mentions ANOTHER Saitou
Hajime in the Shinsengumi)
does it REALLY say that Nakajima Nobori grew orchids? Or is it his
wife's name or something...it is in the same sentence talking about
his firearms shop. This detail interests me because orchids are very
hard to cultivate ^_^ you really have to have a green thumb to have
them grow successfully.
Actually, what Nakajima Nobori grew was aspidistra! It's a type of a greenery
that is actually fairly hardy once it gets to going good. At least, that's
how the system I'm using translates the name.

The other Saito is the guy who was adopted (if I'm reading this right). He
was apparently some sort of priest or in a priest's family to begin with. He
took part in the Koshu-Katsunuma fight, but left the remaining Shinsengumi in
Sendai. He later founded a private elementary school in Tama and remained devoted
to education-related business until he died in 1874 at 61 years of age. It
seems doubtful that he was ever part of the group before the beginning of the
Boshin War.

As for what the translator I use says about Saito's activities? It's not much
better than the Babelfish, but here it goes:

"...and I utter Morizaki at the third morning, and I many soldiers reach full
Ichio, too and halve a police superintendent second-rate platoon and I lead a
half captain Goro Fujita half platoon and put soldiers of the army together
and I lead progress, a squad long Masato Yusa half platoon and put right ways
together with army soldier and go over a secret path day flat peak and attack
it and I outrun and enemy's fortress of Tsuruwa mountain pass and (?) and climb
Yamagami of an above-ground house. (?) than this and lead a soldier of the
Goro Fujita right wing and go over Fukuhara Pass and shoot a final phase, an
enemy's fortress in (?), and, in addition, omission pushes forward a soldier to
an above-ground house, and (?) bombards this promptly and carries a this time
Goro Fujita gunshot wound equal to this on my back..."

So it doesn't make much more sense this way than it did the other. That's why
I like to cross-reference between translators as much as possible. Even then,
some things remain confusing to me.

-MissBehavin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #990]


Made with