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#9830 [2008-11-23 04:25:59]

mimawarigumi?

by jore lehtinen

in an old jidai-geki film,there was two raival groups,shinsengumi and mimawarigumi.both at the same side but fighting for control of kyoto.any historical basis for mimawarigumi-group or is it just moviefiction?(cant find it from the web)regards..Jore
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#9831 [2008-11-23 13:48:58]

Re: [samuraihistory] mimawarigumi?

by soshuju

Jore remember Kumi or Gumi is a suffix that means group/unit
Try searching under Shinsen-gumi and Mimawari-gumi. I think you will
find that they in fact did exist. A member of the Mimawari-gumi
confessed on his deathbed to the assasination of Sakamoto Ryoma and
left behind a bloody sword to prove it...
-t
Tom Helm
toryu@...
"Moriamur, et in media arma ruamus"
- Vergil



On Nov 23, 2008, at 4:25 AM, jore lehtinen wrote:

>
> in an old jidai-geki film,there was two raival groups,shinsengumi
> and mimawarigumi.both at the same side but fighting for control of
> kyoto.any historical basis for mimawarigumi-group or is it just
> moviefiction?(cant find it from the web)regards..Jore
> __________________________________________________________
> Liity nyt uuteen Windows Live Messenger perheeseen
> http://get.live.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



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#9834 [2008-11-23 23:42:04]

RE: [samuraihistory] mimawarigumi?

by jore lehtinen

Thanks Tom!indeed i find lot of info about mimawarigumi when i dug deeper.and talking about sakamoto ryoma:there is a shinsengumi-fan site where is very long article about who actually killed him...but mimawarigumi was new to me,but not any more.but thank you,Tom!!ps.my latin is very rusty and its a long time since ive been reading vergilius(something about weapons?a warning perhaps?)...Jore

To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.comFrom: junkmail@...: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:48:58 -0800Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] mimawarigumi?



Jore remember Kumi or Gumi is a suffix that means group/unitTry searching under Shinsen-gumi and Mimawari-gumi. I think you will find that they in fact did exist. A member of the Mimawari-gumi confessed on his deathbed to the assasination of Sakamoto Ryoma and left behind a bloody sword to prove it...-tTom Helmtoryu@..."Moriamur, et in media arma ruamus"- VergilOn Nov 23, 2008, at 4:25 AM, jore lehtinen wrote:>> in an old jidai-geki film,there was two raival groups,shinsengumi > and mimawarigumi.both at the same side but fighting for control of > kyoto.any historical basis for mimawarigumi-group or is it just > moviefiction?(cant find it from the web)regards..Jore> __________________________________________________________> Liity nyt uuteen Windows Live Messenger perheeseen> http://get.live.com>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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#9835 [2008-11-24 00:29:15]

Re: [samuraihistory] mimawarigumi?

by yoshiyukihiramoto

Hi Tom, and All,

Do you like to know about Ryoma ? Sorry about my clumsy knowledge , but I try to explain as follows;

Sakamoto Ryoma was one of the most important guy to change Old Japan to New Japan at the end of Edo era, about 1860's.

He came from the lowest class of Samurai , Buke , located in Sikoku. Facing to perfect chaos reigned in Japan , like social disorder triggered by unctroll of Edo Bakufu, government due to losing power and consecutive farmers riots against stupid Daimyo , king of prefecture who imposed
heavier tax to them, etc, he was afraid that Europeans and Americans aimed Japan and did military force to make Japan as their colony like they did for China, India, and other Asian Countries.

He tried to lead Chosu and Satsuma ( Local han , small government reighned by local daimyo , king, used to be controlled completely by Edo Bakufu ) to be allied each other as one strong powerful union to fight and defend from colonialzation by them.

He had a dream one day , Japan will change to new country to be governed by new power instead of old power , Edo bakufu, and Japan will become like European , or American country under the control by democratic government instead of feudal power.

However, he was assasinated by stupid , special group formed by old power , Edo bakufu, named Sinsengumi who tried to oust the progressionist like him to guard Edo bakufu, before his dream came true , in the interim.

After his assasination, soon, the allied force of Chosu and Satuma did defend the colonicalization by Europe and America and defeted old power, Edo Bakufu, without decisive collapse triggered by war against Edo Bakufu , and formed new government of Meiji under the reign of Emperor.

Now, Japan need best leader , like Ryoma, for example, because current , consecutive stupid Prime Ministers losing seat within a few months come out one after the other , and did nothing for us. Japan is waisting big money and time. Furthermore, It is so shameful , or disaster that newest
Prime Minister can't speak correctly about Kanji , Japanese character, even Elementary level quite sometime !!

I have a dream , one day Japan change the election system and become like American style and elect Prime Minister , or newly formed President by people of Japan directly insteaed of indirect way like now, through almost one year campaign. So that way, we can expect excelent leader soon.

Eddie

Tom Helm <junkmail@...> wrote:
Jore remember Kumi or Gumi is a suffix that means group/unit
Try searching under Shinsen-gumi and Mimawari-gumi. I think you will
find that they in fact did exist. A member of the Mimawari-gumi
confessed on his deathbed to the assasination of Sakamoto Ryoma and
left behind a bloody sword to prove it...
-t
Tom Helm
toryu@...
"Moriamur, et in media arma ruamus"
- Vergil

On Nov 23, 2008, at 4:25 AM, jore lehtinen wrote:

>
> in an old jidai-geki film,there was two raival groups,shinsengumi
> and mimawarigumi.both at the same side but fighting for control of
> kyoto.any historical basis for mimawarigumi-group or is it just
> moviefiction?(cant find it from the web)regards..Jore
> __________________________________________________________
> Liity nyt uuteen Windows Live Messenger perheeseen
> http://get.live.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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#9837 [2008-11-24 17:23:17]

Re: [samuraihistory] mimawarigumi?

by soshuju

Thanks Eddie I am quite familiar with Ryoma,
Actually the Satcho-Rengo, the uniting of Satsuma and Choshu was
accomplished well before his death, it is one of his great deeds. The
other and more important accomplishment was his Senchu-Hassaku, or
eight point plan. This later may be seen in the form of the Imperial
Rescript of 1869 establishing the new parliamentary style of government.
There are many theories about his assassination, I tend to believe
the deathbed confession of the Mimawari-gumi member. He had motive,
opportunity and ability. I am sorry I don't have the article at hand,
will try to post some details later if our dear monitor doesn't mind
that we are not really talking about Samurai...
Let us die and jump into the thick of battle!
-t
Tom Helm
toryu@...
"Moriamur, et in media arma ruamus"
- Vergil



On Nov 24, 2008, at 12:29 AM, <eddiehiramoto@...> wrote:

> Hi Tom, and All,
>
> Do you like to know about Ryoma ? Sorry about my clumsy knowledge ,
> but I try to explain as follows;
>
> Sakamoto Ryoma was one of the most important guy to change Old
> Japan to New Japan at the end of Edo era, about 1860's.
>
> He came from the lowest class of Samurai , Buke , located in
> Sikoku. Facing to perfect chaos reigned in Japan , like social
> disorder triggered by unctroll of Edo Bakufu, government due to
> losing power and consecutive farmers riots against stupid Daimyo ,
> king of prefecture who imposed
> heavier tax to them, etc, he was afraid that Europeans and
> Americans aimed Japan and did military force to make Japan as their
> colony like they did for China, India, and other Asian Countries.
>
> He tried to lead Chosu and Satsuma ( Local han , small government
> reighned by local daimyo , king, used to be controlled completely
> by Edo Bakufu ) to be allied each other as one strong powerful
> union to fight and defend from colonialzation by them.
>
> He had a dream one day , Japan will change to new country to be
> governed by new power instead of old power , Edo bakufu, and Japan
> will become like European , or American country under the control
> by democratic government instead of feudal power.
>
> However, he was assasinated by stupid , special group formed by old
> power , Edo bakufu, named Sinsengumi who tried to oust the
> progressionist like him to guard Edo bakufu, before his dream came
> true , in the interim.
>
> After his assasination, soon, the allied force of Chosu and Satuma
> did defend the colonicalization by Europe and America and defeted
> old power, Edo Bakufu, without decisive collapse triggered by war
> against Edo Bakufu , and formed new government of Meiji under the
> reign of Emperor.
>
> Now, Japan need best leader , like Ryoma, for example, because
> current , consecutive stupid Prime Ministers losing seat within a
> few months come out one after the other , and did nothing for us.
> Japan is waisting big money and time. Furthermore, It is so
> shameful , or disaster that newest
> Prime Minister can't speak correctly about Kanji , Japanese
> character, even Elementary level quite sometime !!
>
> I have a dream , one day Japan change the election system and
> become like American style and elect Prime Minister , or newly
> formed President by people of Japan directly insteaed of indirect
> way like now, through almost one year campaign. So that way, we can
> expect excelent leader soon.
>
> Eddie
>
> Tom Helm <junkmail@...> wrote:
> Jore remember Kumi or Gumi is a suffix that means group/unit
> Try searching under Shinsen-gumi and Mimawari-gumi. I think you will
> find that they in fact did exist. A member of the Mimawari-gumi
> confessed on his deathbed to the assasination of Sakamoto Ryoma and
> left behind a bloody sword to prove it...
> -t
> Tom Helm
> toryu@...
> "Moriamur, et in media arma ruamus"
> - Vergil
>
> On Nov 23, 2008, at 4:25 AM, jore lehtinen wrote:
>
> >
> > in an old jidai-geki film,there was two raival groups,shinsengumi
> > and mimawarigumi.both at the same side but fighting for control of
> > kyoto.any historical basis for mimawarigumi-group or is it just
> > moviefiction?(cant find it from the web)regards..Jore
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Liity nyt uuteen Windows Live Messenger perheeseen
> > http://get.live.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Power up the Internet with Yahoo! Toolbar.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



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