New Blog Post - Battles of Kawanakajima

Why Kawanakajima? Shingen and Kenshin's Five Battles

Sengoku Daimyo Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin are two well known
figures from Japan's Sengoku period who fought five battles on the
Kawanakajima plain in Shinano province (Modern day Nagano prefecture)
between 1553 and 1564. (The fouth battle was depicted in the 1990
Kadokawa Haruki movie Heaven and Earth) Why did Kawanakajima become
the main battleground for these two warriors? What made Kawanakajima
such a contested area? I thought I'd tackle this question for my blog
post this week. After a combination of poking around and deductive
reasoning, I can come up with a few reasons. Although, there is no way
to really know which reasons might be correct, a little theoretical
guesswork never hurt anyone.

The rest here:
http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-kawanakajima-shingen-and-kenshins.html

there is a theory that yamamoto kansuke suggest that takeda-clan need borders at sea,so shingen decide that northern direction was easier etc...and for uesugis:kawanakajima area was simple the most practical place to stop takeda advance.that is just an idea...jore

To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.comFrom: samurai-listowner@...: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 02:01:33 +0000Subject: [samuraihistory] New Blog Post - Battles of Kawanakajima




Why Kawanakajima? Shingen and Kenshin's Five BattlesSengoku Daimyo Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin are two well knownfigures from Japan's Sengoku period who fought five battles on theKawanakajima plain in Shinano province (Modern day Nagano prefecture)between 1553 and 1564. (The fouth battle was depicted in the 1990Kadokawa Haruki movie Heaven and Earth) Why did Kawanakajima becomethe main battleground for these two warriors? What made Kawanakajimasuch a contested area? I thought I'd tackle this question for my blogpost this week. After a combination of poking around and deductivereasoning, I can come up with a few reasons. Although, there is no wayto really know which reasons might be correct, a little theoreticalguesswork never hurt anyone.The rest here:http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-kawanakajima-shingen-and-kenshins.html





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My understanding is that it was the only flatland bordering the two Daimyo clans. Most of the territory borders were mountains.



----- Original Message ----
From: Kitsuno
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2008 7:01:33 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] New Blog Post - Battles of Kawanakajima


Why Kawanakajima? Shingen and Kenshin's Five Battles

Sengoku Daimyo Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin are two well known
figures from Japan's Sengoku period who fought five battles on the
Kawanakajima plain in Shinano province (Modern day Nagano prefecture)
between 1553 and 1564. (The fouth battle was depicted in the 1990
Kadokawa Haruki movie Heaven and Earth) Why did Kawanakajima become
the main battleground for these two warriors? What made Kawanakajima
such a contested area? I thought I'd tackle this question for my blog
post this week. After a combination of poking around and deductive
reasoning, I can come up with a few reasons. Although, there is no way
to really know which reasons might be correct, a little theoretical
guesswork never hurt anyone.

The rest here:
http://shogun- yashiki.blogspot .com/2008/ 09/why-kawanakaj ima-shingen- and-kenshins. html






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, jore lehtinen wrote:

>
>
> there is a theory that yamamoto kansuke suggest that takeda-clan

need borders at sea,so shingen decide that northern direction was
easier etc...and for uesugis:kawanakajima area was simple the most
practical place to stop takeda advance.that is just an idea...jore

>

Both of which are in the blog post (link at the bottom of the original
post and here:
http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-kawanakajima-shingen-and-kenshins.html
), but my question after reading the comments on the blog post is,
where did the theory that Shingen was looking for sea access come
from? I found that in a Japanese history book, but the actual source
was not listed. Since Shinano was Shingen's only option for movement
because he was allied with the Imagawa and couldn't move soldiers
through Suruga, was he even trying to get to Echigo at all (he could
have been making moves to the West), or did his foray into Echigo
simply bring Kenshin down on him even though he hadn't intended to
even bother with Echigo?

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Kitsuno
<samurai-listowner@...> wrote:

>
> Both of which are in the blog post (link at the bottom of the original
> post and here:
> http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-kawanakajima-shingen-and-kenshins.html
> ), but my question after reading the comments on the blog post is,
> where did the theory that Shingen was looking for sea access come
> from? I found that in a Japanese history book, but the actual source
> was not listed. Since Shinano was Shingen's only option for movement
> because he was allied with the Imagawa and couldn't move soldiers
> through Suruga, was he even trying to get to Echigo at all (he could
> have been making moves to the West), or did his foray into Echigo
> simply bring Kenshin down on him even though he hadn't intended to
> even bother with Echigo?

Is it possibly related to the 'salt' episode? Perhaps simply an
extrapolation of an identified need by later historians that goes
"Takeda needed + Takeda was intelligent = Takeda must have wanted...",
regardless of the truth of the matter.

-Josh

I found a book on ebay about Kawanakajima by Turnbull. It's only $14.
It's hard cover. Is it worth it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kawanakajima-1553-64-Stephen-Turnbull-samurai-
kendo_W0QQitemZ230284795713QQihZ013QQcategoryZ378QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewIte
mQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

In my experience, Stephen Turnbull books are always worth it.  Besides, $14 is too good of a deal to pass up!

--- On Tue, 9/9/08, taekwonhapki <taekwonhapki@...> wrote:

From: taekwonhapki <taekwonhapki@...>
Subject: [samuraihistory] New Blog Post - Battles of Kawanakajima
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 2:32 AM






I found a book on ebay about Kawanakajima by Turnbull. It's only $14.
It's hard cover. Is it worth it?

http://cgi.ebay com/Kawanakajima -1553-64- Stephen-Turnbull -samurai-
kendo_W0QQitemZ2302 84795713QQihZ013 QQcategoryZ378QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZVi ewIte
mQQ_trksidZp1742. m153.l1262


















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