Japanese army in Korea 1590s

Does anyone know where I can find OBs for the Japanese army in Korean in the
1590s?

I'm especially interested in the composition of the forces. In other words,
what percentage of the forces, if any, were mounted samurai, samurai on foot
and the different types of ashigaru (and their weapons: bow, spear, swords, or
arquebus).

Thanks in advance.

Bob Burke


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> Does anyone know where I can find OBs for the Japanese army in Korean

in the

> 1590s?
>
> I'm especially interested in the composition of the forces. In other

words,

> what percentage of the forces, if any, were mounted samurai, samurai

on foot

> and the different types of ashigaru (and their weapons: bow, spear,

swords, or

> arquebus).

Others might have better overall statistics, but the Shimazu listed the
following for 1591:

300 yari (200 of which are long yari), 200 hand-spears (not sure what
constitutes a hand-spear), 1,500 guns, 1,500 bows. That only describes a
force of 3,500, but perhaps might be typical, meaning 43% guns, 43%
bows, 14% yari. Swords would not have been primary weapons and would be
a personal weapon not counted in these registers.

As for mounted men vs foot soldiers, from 1597 the Shimazu listed the
following (I'm excluding labourers from this list):

262 mounted men, with 5068 personal followers on foot. 800 other foot
soldiers (landless men, muashi, and squires, kaji ko-sho), and 665
weapon bearers. If we exclude weapon bearers (or dogu, who may or may
not have actually fought in battle, I'm not sure), then that's 4%
mounted samurai with 96% foot soldiers.

-AngusH

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Angus,

This is a big help. Thank you.

Any idea (guesses) as to what percentage of the infantry might have been
Samurai vs. Ashigaru?

Bob Burke

In a message dated 4/22/07 5:51:30 PM, angus.haynes@... writes:

>
>
>
>
> > Does anyone know where I can find OBs for the Japanese army in Korean
> in the
> > 1590s?
> >
> > I'm especially interested in the composition of the forces. In other
> words,
> > what percentage of the forces, if any, were mounted samurai, samurai
> on foot
> > and the different types of ashigaru (and their weapons: bow, spear,
> swords, or
> > arquebus).
>
> Others might have better overall statistics, but the Shimazu listed the
> following for 1591:
>
> 300 yari (200 of which are long yari), 200 hand-spears (not sure what
> constitutes a hand-spear), 1,500 guns, 1,500 bows. That only describes a
> force of 3,500, but perhaps might be typical, meaning 43% guns, 43%
> bows, 14% yari. Swords would not have been primary weapons and would be
> a personal weapon not counted in these registers.
>
> As for mounted men vs foot soldiers, from 1597 the Shimazu listed the
> following (I'm excluding labourers from this list):
>
> 262 mounted men, with 5068 personal followers on foot. 800 other foot
> soldiers (landless men, muashi, and squires, kaji ko-sho), and 665
> weapon bearers. If we exclude weapon bearers (or dogu, who may or may
> not have actually fought in battle, I'm not sure), then that's 4%
> mounted samurai with 96% foot soldiers.
>
> -AngusH
>
> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________
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> This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged,
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> received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views
> expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not liable
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>
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> such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words
> "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.
>
> The Rabobank Group
>
> Australia: 1800 025 484
> New Zealand: 0800 500 933
> ____________ ________ ________ ________ ________ ________
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

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>Any idea (guesses) as to what percentage of the infantry might have

been

>Samurai vs. Ashigaru?

That's harder to say. The source I'm getting this info from (the
Iriki-In documents) doesn't show the word that is being translated for
the 5,068 personal followers of the mounted samurai. This figure would
probably encompass ashigaru as well as higher ranking non-mounted
military men and samurai, and the higher ranking mounted samurai brought
more men with them than the lower ranking mounted samurai.

If I had to throw out a completely unscientific guess I would maybe
suggest an average of 2-3 followers per mounted samurai being men
ranking higher than ashigaru. That seems reasonable to me, but it
wouldn't shock me too much if I was completely wrong. As for the
landless men and squires, I'm really not sure. Landless men would
probably count as ashigaru, or non-samurai footmen to be more accurate,
but without knowing too much about the kaji kosho (squires) it's hard to
say what their function would be.

The translator used the english term 'squire' for the kaji kosho, which
could mean they were semi-aristocratic men who may have in turn had
their own followers, or they could have been non-combatant general
attendants. They were listed as having their own labourers assigned to
them, so that suggests that maybe they were likely the former - men of
some standing who may not have been direct retainers of the Shimazu,
maybe village headmen and the like. In that case some may have worn
armour, but they probably would have functioned as ashigaru assigned
under a samurai commander.

Again though, I'm just guessing here. Maybe someone else might be able
to shed some light on some of this?

-AngusH

______________________________________________________________

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello all, could anyone tell me what the best dvd on musashi is... thanks

"Haynes, A (Angus)" <angus.haynes@...> wrote: >Any idea (guesses) as to what percentage of the infantry might have
been

>Samurai vs. Ashigaru?

That's harder to say. The source I'm getting this info from (the
Iriki-In documents) doesn't show the word that is being translated for
the 5,068 personal followers of the mounted samurai. This figure would
probably encompass ashigaru as well as higher ranking non-mounted
military men and samurai, and the higher ranking mounted samurai brought
more men with them than the lower ranking mounted samurai.

If I had to throw out a completely unscientific guess I would maybe
suggest an average of 2-3 followers per mounted samurai being men
ranking higher than ashigaru. That seems reasonable to me, but it
wouldn't shock me too much if I was completely wrong. As for the
landless men and squires, I'm really not sure. Landless men would
probably count as ashigaru, or non-samurai footmen to be more accurate,
but without knowing too much about the kaji kosho (squires) it's hard to
say what their function would be.

The translator used the english term 'squire' for the kaji kosho, which
could mean they were semi-aristocratic men who may have in turn had
their own followers, or they could have been non-combatant general
attendants. They were listed as having their own labourers assigned to
them, so that suggests that maybe they were likely the former - men of
some standing who may not have been direct retainers of the Shimazu,
maybe village headmen and the like. In that case some may have worn
armour, but they probably would have functioned as ashigaru assigned
under a samurai commander.

Again though, I'm just guessing here. Maybe someone else might be able
to shed some light on some of this?

-AngusH

__________________________________________________________

This email, including any attachments, may be confidential or privileged, and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Rabobank Group. The Group is not liable for the effects of any virus which may be contained in this email.

If this email contains marketing material and you do not wish to receive such material by email in future, please reply to this email and place the words "Remove My Details - Electronic Messages" in the Subject Header.

The Rabobank Group

Australia: 1800 025 484
New Zealand: 0800 500 933
__________________________________________________________

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---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I saw a great story on him based on a book by a Japanese author. Perhaps it's available on DVD

Rick

Martial Arts and Self-Defense Articles New Submission How to Grow a Soldier http://kirkhamsebooks.com/MartialArts/MartialArtsArticles/index.htm



----- Original Message ----
From: Dominic Now <dominic_noe@...>
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:04:03 PM
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Japanese army in Korea 1590s


hello all, could anyone tell me what the best dvd on musashi is... thanks

You may be referring to Hiroshi Inagaki's Samurai Trilogy starring Toshiro Mifune, which is based on the novel by Yoshikawa Eiji.

Joel


"Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...> wrote:
I saw a great story on him based on a book by a Japanese author. Perhaps it's available on DVD

Rick

Martial Arts and Self-Defense Articles New Submission How to Grow a Soldier http://kirkhamsebooks.com/MartialArts/MartialArtsArticles/index.htm



----- Original Message ----
From: Dominic Now
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:04:03 PM
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Japanese army in Korea 1590s


hello all, could anyone tell me what the best dvd on musashi is... thanks


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