death of nobunaga and jube yagyu

hai my name is hakim, i've read book, it has title taiko, and the
author is eiji yoshikawa,that tell nobunaga die in hannoji temple, is
it right he was died there, and would you tell me, in which era jube
yagyu mitsuyoshi alived?thanks before

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Riffin Sukmana Hakim"
wrote:

>
> hai my name is hakim, i've read book, it has title taiko, and the
> author is eiji yoshikawa,that tell nobunaga die in hannoji temple, is
> it right he was died there, and would you tell me, in which era jube
> yagyu mitsuyoshi alived?thanks before
>

Nobunaga did die at Honnouji in 1582, attacked by Akechi Mitsuhide (or
did he get out and live out the rest of his years in peace as a farmer
in Southern Kyushu where he eventually became Hideyori's gardener
after he escaped from Osaka castle? Hmm?). As for the illustrious
Yagyu Juubei, I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm sure
someone here knows.

> Nobunaga did die at Honnouji in 1582, attacked by Akechi Mitsuhide (or
> did he get out and live out the rest of his years in peace as a farmer
> in Southern Kyushu where he eventually became Hideyori's gardener
> after he escaped from Osaka castle? Hmm?). As for the illustrious
> Yagyu Juubei, I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm sure
> someone here knows.
>

Yagyu Jubei Lived from around 1607-1650 as far as I know. I think
there's little chance that they are one and the same, if that is what
is being implied.

I have heard many stories related to Nobunaga's death. However, I think it is most commonly believed that he died at Honnoji. Whether he committed seppuku or died from an arrow, or perished in the fire, I guess we have no way of knowing. There are several Japanese sites and articles related to different theories on this matter (from why Mitsuhide did it to what actually happened to Nobunaga).

In a related matter... Can anyone tell me the exact location of the original Honnoji? I have been to the re-built site on several occassions, but it would be nice to see the landscape of where the original actually rested.

Jonathan P. Ellgen

Riffin Sukmana Hakim <hakim_it06@...> wrote: hai my name is hakim, i've read book, it has title taiko, and the
author is eiji yoshikawa,that tell nobunaga die in hannoji temple, is
it right he was died there, and would you tell me, in which era jube
yagyu mitsuyoshi alived?thanks before





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> In a related matter... Can anyone tell me the exact location of the

original Honnoji? I have been to the re-built site on several
occassions, but it would be nice to see the landscape of where the
original actually rested.

>

One of the times I was in Kyoto and I asked about it, the general
consensus seemed to be "nobody really knows".

--- Kitsuno <samurai-listowner@...>
wrote:

>
> > In a related matter... Can anyone tell me the
> exact location of the
> original Honnoji? I have been to the re-built site
> on several
> occassions, but it would be nice to see the
> landscape of where the
> original actually rested.
> >
>
>
> One of the times I was in Kyoto and I asked about
> it, the general
> consensus seemed to be "nobody really knows".

Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
able to find it myself.









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On Feb 7, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:

>
> Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
> building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
> spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
> about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
> able to find it myself.
>

Ditto.

I've been trying to recall where it is.

I'm willing to bet that some of the more "fancy" and mook-like bios
of Nobunaga have a picture of the marker somewhere, but I'm too
harried right now to go digging.


Tony

Regarding the marker for the site of Nobunaga's death, I walked out there
and found it when I was visiting Kyoto last March or April, on a weekend
visit. First, I made the mistake of going directly to the current Honnoji,
but was told that Honnoji had been relocated since Nobunaga's death. The guy
at the temple pointed me in the general direction to go, but I really didn't
know the exactly location. So with some difficulty, I eventually figured out
where the marker was located so I could hike out to find it. I found the
location by visiting a nearby museum of history that was very close to
Honnoji. The museum had historical maps and tourist maps for sale, and I
asked a woman at the museum information booth where the old Honnoji was.
Between the two of us, we searched one of the maps and we figured out where
the old Honnoji was. If I recall correctly, it was about a twenty minute
twenty-five minute walk from Honnoji. When I found it, the marker was pretty
non-descript. The marker was relatively modest grey stone, to my
recollection perhaps 70-80 centimeters tall, located in a very non-descript
residential neighborhood. The marker itself was located immediately in front
of the commercial office of a model house showroom and an elementary school.
The kids were laughing, playing, shouting in the background. I don't think
that I have a photo of it. I'm not much of a photography kind of guy.



Regards,

Mike



_____

From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Anthony Bryant
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:54 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: death of nobunaga and jube yagyu

On Feb 7, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
> building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
> spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
> about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
> able to find it myself.
>
Ditto.

I've been trying to recall where it is.

I'm willing to bet that some of the more "fancy" and mook-like bios
of Nobunaga have a picture of the marker somewhere, but I'm too
harried right now to go digging.

Tony





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With a google search, I found a photo of the stone marker for the original
Honnoji. The stone marker is bigger than I had recollected. Funny how memory
can play tricks. But the brick columns of the building behind it looks just
like the commercial office building I remember. To my recollection, the
commercial office building looked like it had been built relatively
recently.



http://www.sankei-kansai.com/03_kikaku/kyoto/26/pic01_2.html



_____

From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tokyo dog
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:31 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] location of original Honnoji, marker for
Nobunaga's death



Regarding the marker for the site of Nobunaga's death, I walked out there
and found it when I was visiting Kyoto last March or April, on a weekend
visit. First, I made the mistake of going directly to the current Honnoji,
but was told that Honnoji had been relocated since Nobunaga's death. The guy
at the temple pointed me in the general direction to go, but I really didn't
know the exactly location. So with some difficulty, I eventually figured out
where the marker was located so I could hike out to find it. I found the
location by visiting a nearby museum of history that was very close to
Honnoji. The museum had historical maps and tourist maps for sale, and I
asked a woman at the museum information booth where the old Honnoji was.
Between the two of us, we searched one of the maps and we figured out where
the old Honnoji was. If I recall correctly, it was about a twenty minute
twenty-five minute walk from Honnoji. When I found it, the marker was pretty
non-descript. The marker was relatively modest grey stone, to my
recollection perhaps 70-80 centimeters tall, located in a very non-descript
residential neighborhood. The marker itself was located immediately in front
of the commercial office of a model house showroom and an elementary school.
The kids were laughing, playing, shouting in the background. I don't think
that I have a photo of it. I'm not much of a photography kind of guy.

Regards,

Mike

_____

From: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Anthony Bryant
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:54 AM
To: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: death of nobunaga and jube yagyu

On Feb 7, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
> building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
> spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
> about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
> able to find it myself.
>
Ditto.

I've been trying to recall where it is.

I'm willing to bet that some of the more "fancy" and mook-like bios
of Nobunaga have a picture of the marker somewhere, but I'm too
harried right now to go digging.

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is very helpful... Thank you for that information. I will probably have time to look for it next month. I have always wanted to find it, even if there is nothing there but a marker stone. I had never seen that photograph either.

Jonathan P Ellgen

tokyo dog <tokyodog@...> wrote: With a google search, I found a photo of the stone marker for the original
Honnoji. The stone marker is bigger than I had recollected. Funny how memory
can play tricks. But the brick columns of the building behind it looks just
like the commercial office building I remember. To my recollection, the
commercial office building looked like it had been built relatively
recently.

http://www.sankei-kansai.com/03_kikaku/kyoto/26/pic01_2.html

_____

From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tokyo dog
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:31 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] location of original Honnoji, marker for
Nobunaga's death

Regarding the marker for the site of Nobunaga's death, I walked out there
and found it when I was visiting Kyoto last March or April, on a weekend
visit. First, I made the mistake of going directly to the current Honnoji,
but was told that Honnoji had been relocated since Nobunaga's death. The guy
at the temple pointed me in the general direction to go, but I really didn't
know the exactly location. So with some difficulty, I eventually figured out
where the marker was located so I could hike out to find it. I found the
location by visiting a nearby museum of history that was very close to
Honnoji. The museum had historical maps and tourist maps for sale, and I
asked a woman at the museum information booth where the old Honnoji was.
Between the two of us, we searched one of the maps and we figured out where
the old Honnoji was. If I recall correctly, it was about a twenty minute
twenty-five minute walk from Honnoji. When I found it, the marker was pretty
non-descript. The marker was relatively modest grey stone, to my
recollection perhaps 70-80 centimeters tall, located in a very non-descript
residential neighborhood. The marker itself was located immediately in front
of the commercial office of a model house showroom and an elementary school.
The kids were laughing, playing, shouting in the background. I don't think
that I have a photo of it. I'm not much of a photography kind of guy.

Regards,

Mike

_____

From: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Anthony Bryant
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:54 AM
To: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: death of nobunaga and jube yagyu

On Feb 7, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
> building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
> spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
> about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
> able to find it myself.
>
Ditto.

I've been trying to recall where it is.

I'm willing to bet that some of the more "fancy" and mook-like bios
of Nobunaga have a picture of the marker somewhere, but I'm too
harried right now to go digging.

Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "tokyo dog"
wrote:

>
> Regarding the marker for the site of Nobunaga's death, I walked out

there

> and found it when I was visiting Kyoto last March or April, on a

weekend

> visit.

Apparently the people I asked about it were just too lazy to figure
out where it was. It's on my menu for my next trip to kyoto.

--- tokyo dog <tokyodog@...> wrote:

> With a google search, I found a photo of the stone
> marker for the original
> Honnoji. The stone marker is bigger than I had
> recollected. Funny how memory
> can play tricks. But the brick columns of the
> building behind it looks just
> like the commercial office building I remember. To
> my recollection, the
> commercial office building looked like it had been
> built relatively
> recently.
>
>
>
>

http://www.sankei-kansai.com/03_kikaku/kyoto/26/pic01_2.html

>

Yep, that's what I remember seeing from TV. Next time
I'm in Kyoto maybe I'll go try again, but I doubt I'll
be in Kyoto again soon.









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Here's the location of the original Honno-ji, courtesy of my wife Ayame who passes it on her way to work most days.

Starting from the southeast corner of the Oike-dori and Horikawa-dori intersection (the big intersection at the southeast corner of Nijo castle), walk straight south down Horikawa-dori until you get to Rokkaku-dori (about three blocks or so-sometimes it is hard to count blocks because of alleys). Turn east (left if you are going south) and go to Aburanokoji-dori (two blocks or so). This is the northwest corner of the Honno-ji site. It is a four block area bounded by Rokkaku-dori on the north, Nishikinokoji-dori on the south, Aburanokoji-dori on the west, and Nishinotoin-dori on the east. The building with the marker is located on a corner and has a brick first story with a metal upper portion.

--- Randy Schadel <ayamechiba@...> wrote:

> Here's the location of the original Honno-ji,
> courtesy of my wife Ayame who passes it on her way
> to work most days.
>
> Starting from the southeast corner of the Oike-dori
> and Horikawa-dori intersection (the big intersection
> at the southeast corner of Nijo castle), walk
> straight south down Horikawa-dori until you get to
> Rokkaku-dori (about three blocks or so-sometimes it
> is hard to count blocks because of alleys). Turn
> east (left if you are going south) and go to
> Aburanokoji-dori (two blocks or so). This is the
> northwest corner of the Honno-ji site. It is a four
> block area bounded by Rokkaku-dori on the north,
> Nishikinokoji-dori on the south, Aburanokoji-dori on
> the west, and Nishinotoin-dori on the east. The
> building with the marker is located on a corner and
> has a brick first story with a metal upper portion.

Should have known to ask you to ask Ayame, Randy. Tell
her thanks!


Nate




____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

dont know about "stonemarker",but i've seen a big stone bench on the site of
the honno-ji...Jore

>From: jonathan ellgen <jpellgen@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] location of original Honnoji, marker for
>Nobunaga's death
>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:36:51 -0800 (PST)
>
>That is very helpful... Thank you for that information. I will probably
>have time to look for it next month. I have always wanted to find it, even
>if there is nothing there but a marker stone. I had never seen that
>photograph either.
>
>Jonathan P Ellgen
>
>tokyo dog <tokyodog@...> wrote: With a
>google search, I found a photo of the stone marker for the original
> Honnoji. The stone marker is bigger than I had recollected. Funny how
>memory
> can play tricks. But the brick columns of the building behind it looks
>just
> like the commercial office building I remember. To my recollection, the
> commercial office building looked like it had been built relatively
> recently.
>
> http://www.sankei-kansai.com/03_kikaku/kyoto/26/pic01_2.html
>
> _____
>
> From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of tokyo dog
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:31 AM
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [samuraihistory] location of original Honnoji, marker for
> Nobunaga's death
>
> Regarding the marker for the site of Nobunaga's death, I walked out there
> and found it when I was visiting Kyoto last March or April, on a weekend
> visit. First, I made the mistake of going directly to the current
>Honnoji,
> but was told that Honnoji had been relocated since Nobunaga's death. The
>guy
> at the temple pointed me in the general direction to go, but I really
>didn't
> know the exactly location. So with some difficulty, I eventually figured
>out
> where the marker was located so I could hike out to find it. I found the
> location by visiting a nearby museum of history that was very close to
> Honnoji. The museum had historical maps and tourist maps for sale, and I
> asked a woman at the museum information booth where the old Honnoji was.
> Between the two of us, we searched one of the maps and we figured out
>where
> the old Honnoji was. If I recall correctly, it was about a twenty minute
> twenty-five minute walk from Honnoji. When I found it, the marker was
>pretty
> non-descript. The marker was relatively modest grey stone, to my
> recollection perhaps 70-80 centimeters tall, located in a very
>non-descript
> residential neighborhood. The marker itself was located immediately in
>front
> of the commercial office of a model house showroom and an elementary
>school.
> The kids were laughing, playing, shouting in the background. I don't
>think
> that I have a photo of it. I'm not much of a photography kind of guy.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
> _____
>
> From: samuraihistory@
> yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@
> yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Anthony Bryant
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:54 AM
> To: samuraihistory@
> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: death of nobunaga and jube yagyu
>
> On Feb 7, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > Actually, theres' a small marker in front of some
> > building--I thing it's a hotel--that marks the former
> > spot of the Honnoji. I've seen it on documentaries
> > about Nobunaga, but last time I was in Kyoto wasn't
> > able to find it myself.
> >
> Ditto.
>
> I've been trying to recall where it is.
>
> I'm willing to bet that some of the more "fancy" and mook-like bios
> of Nobunaga have a picture of the marker somewhere, but I'm too
> harried right now to go digging.
>
> Tony
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
>(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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