Nihonto

I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
Thanks.-Martin

Martin,

There is no substitute for real knowledge - go here to begin your quest:
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
And above all, buy books if you have a serious rather than a casual approach to katana...

To answer your questions:
- Simply, katana are made of "steel" steel. Pure iron with 0.8% carbon added is tool steel, comparable to the edge steel of a katana. The hardness of iron/steel is manipulated by varying the carbon content and heat treating appropriately. Modern steels are alloys with elements other than carbon also added.
- Katana have never weighed 50 lbs!!! I have just gone and got out a ca 1700 katana. It weighed 1 1/2 lbs (700 grams). It is about an average size. In a temple in Japan there is a katana 6 foot or more long. It might weight 5 lbs, but it is a votive offering to the Gods and not a serious combat sword.
- Miyamoto Musashi's sword?? No idea...

Best regards,
Barry Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From: MNcoffey@...
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Nihonto


I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
Thanks.-Martin

.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Martin and Barry
I had heard that one of the swords owned by Musashi was a shodai Hizen Tadayoshi which would have been a new sword to Musashi as they both lived about the same time. Also about the long sword to which you refer, you may be confusing this with that used by Sasaki Ganryu in their famous duel. Sasaki was reputed to have a very long sword called the "Swallow Cutter" I believe.
Regards
Clive Sinclaire

----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Thomas
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Nihonto


Martin,

There is no substitute for real knowledge - go here to begin your quest:
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
And above all, buy books if you have a serious rather than a casual approach to katana...

To answer your questions:
- Simply, katana are made of "steel" steel. Pure iron with 0.8% carbon added is tool steel, comparable to the edge steel of a katana. The hardness of iron/steel is manipulated by varying the carbon content and heat treating appropriately. Modern steels are alloys with elements other than carbon also added.
- Katana have never weighed 50 lbs!!! I have just gone and got out a ca 1700 katana. It weighed 1 1/2 lbs (700 grams). It is about an average size. In a temple in Japan there is a katana 6 foot or more long. It might weight 5 lbs, but it is a votive offering to the Gods and not a serious combat sword.
- Miyamoto Musashi's sword?? No idea...

Best regards,
Barry Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From: MNcoffey@...
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Nihonto

I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
Thanks.-Martin

.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mr. Sinclaire burned me in replying .He's likely 100% right in the
statements.

_____

Da: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
Per conto di Clive Sinclaire
Inviato: sabato 20 gennaio 2007 20.40
A: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Oggetto: Re: [samuraihistory] Nihonto



Martin and Barry
I had heard that one of the swords owned by Musashi was a shodai Hizen
Tadayoshi which would have been a new sword to Musashi as they both lived
about the same time. Also about the long sword to which you refer, you may
be confusing this with that used by Sasaki Ganryu in their famous duel.
Sasaki was reputed to have a very long sword called the "Swallow Cutter" I
believe.
Regards
Clive Sinclaire

----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Thomas
To: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Nihonto

Martin,

There is no substitute for real knowledge - go here to begin your quest:
http://home.
earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
And above all, buy books if you have a serious rather than a casual approach
to katana...

To answer your questions:
- Simply, katana are made of "steel" steel. Pure iron with 0.8% carbon added
is tool steel, comparable to the edge steel of a katana. The hardness of
iron/steel is manipulated by varying the carbon content and heat treating
appropriately. Modern steels are alloys with elements other than carbon also
added.
- Katana have never weighed 50 lbs!!! I have just gone and got out a ca 1700
katana. It weighed 1 1/2 lbs (700 grams). It is about an average size. In a
temple in Japan there is a katana 6 foot or more long. It might weight 5
lbs, but it is a votive offering to the Gods and not a serious combat sword.
- Miyamoto Musashi's sword?? No idea...

Best regards,
Barry Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From: MNcoffey@frontierne t.net
To: samuraihistory@
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:16 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Nihonto

I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
Thanks.-Martin

.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I seem to remember reading that since meteoric iron was used in the some
of the higher quality blades, you would also have a steel with nickel
and other elements as well as carbon. Steel until the early 20th century
was still a bit of a black art and even now there are claims for new
alloys that are pretty outrageous if true.

Jim Eckman

Thank you very much Mr. Sinclaire, Mr. Tacchini and Mr. Thomas. It was
all very enlightening, though I haven't yet read everything on the
link you sent me Mr. Thomas. Thanks eveyone.

katanas generally weight from 500g to 1000+g.depends of the model and era
its forged etc..

>From: "MNcoffey@..." <MNCoffey@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [samuraihistory] Nihonto
>Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:16:42 -0600
>
>I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
>up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
>my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
>made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
>friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
>I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
>more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
>bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
>Thanks.-Martin
>

_________________________________________________________________
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kojiros blade was called "dryingpole"...

>From: "Clive Sinclaire" <CSinclaire@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Nihonto
>Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:39:47 -0000
>
>Martin and Barry
>I had heard that one of the swords owned by Musashi was a shodai Hizen
>Tadayoshi which would have been a new sword to Musashi as they both lived
>about the same time. Also about the long sword to which you refer, you may
>be confusing this with that used by Sasaki Ganryu in their famous duel.
>Sasaki was reputed to have a very long sword called the "Swallow Cutter" I
>believe.
>Regards
>Clive Sinclaire
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Thomas
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Nihonto
>
>
> Martin,
>
> There is no substitute for real knowledge - go here to begin your quest:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
> And above all, buy books if you have a serious rather than a casual
>approach to katana...
>
> To answer your questions:
> - Simply, katana are made of "steel" steel. Pure iron with 0.8% carbon
>added is tool steel, comparable to the edge steel of a katana. The hardness
>of iron/steel is manipulated by varying the carbon content and heat
>treating appropriately. Modern steels are alloys with elements other than
>carbon also added.
> - Katana have never weighed 50 lbs!!! I have just gone and got out a ca
>1700 katana. It weighed 1 1/2 lbs (700 grams). It is about an average size.
>In a temple in Japan there is a katana 6 foot or more long. It might weight
>5 lbs, but it is a votive offering to the Gods and not a serious combat
>sword.
> - Miyamoto Musashi's sword?? No idea...
>
> Best regards,
> Barry Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MNcoffey@...
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:16 AM
> Subject: [samuraihistory] Nihonto
>
> I have been doing research on real Japanese katana and have only ended
> up confusing myself even more, so I thought I would ask everybody here
> my two questions. First question, what kind of steels were the katana
> made of. second question, this one I have been arguing about with a
> friend of mine, he says that katana back then could weigh up to 50lbs!
> I say up to 5lbs, so I was hoping somebody could answer that. And I
> more question I've read on the Internet that Miyamoto Musashi used a
> bigger katana than most people and I was wandering if that is true.
> Thanks.-Martin
>
> .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
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