information

I'm looking for specific information on a white haired or silver haired samurai somewhere in between the Nara to the Muromachi periods. Possibly Greek in origin... I have heard folk tales here and there but nothing in writing.

Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

smrabbitry@... wrote:

>
>
> I'm looking for specific information on a white haired or silver haired
> samurai somewhere in between the Nara to the Muromachi periods. Possibly
> Greek in origin... I have heard folk tales here and there but nothing in
> writing.

Nothing *I've* ever heard of.

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo

What anime did you see?



2006/7/12, smrabbitry@... <smrabbitry@...>:

>
> I'm looking for specific information on a white haired or silver haired
> samurai somewhere in between the Nara to the Muromachi periods. Possibly
> Greek in origin... I have heard folk tales here and there but nothing in
> writing.
>
> Thank you.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Basically the man brought a few of his select solders to learn more fighting techniques. What I'm looking for is old scrolls of travels and documentation.

This man interest me because I've followed his tales starting in Greece and Rome, to all parts of the world, over a very LONG time. It can't all be the same person, offspring I'm guessing. I've lost the story in Japan. At least the written story. I picked it up again in Hungry during the 1500's, but there is still mention of him training with the Samurai and personally protecting the emperor for some times.

Anyway. I'll find it. Was just wondering if anyone had heard any folk tales, seen any paintings or art referencing a white or silver haired Samurai or any thing around that time period.

Thanks,
EB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a history bored correct?

May be my english isn't so good... I don't think I mentioned anything about anime...

Let me repost...

I am looking for information on a mythological silver-haired or white haired samurai. There are old folk tales about a great warrior with a army, whom traveled the world. From the information I have, I have been following his tales of either him (his leiniage) from Greece and Rome, I lost the account in Japan and recovered it in Hungry durring the Ottoman Empire.

If you have informatin or folk tales please email me.

----- Original Message -----
From: k kobayakawa
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 7/12/2006 3:05:05 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] information


What anime did you see?

2006/7/12, smrabbitry@... <smrabbitry@...>:
>
> I'm looking for specific information on a white haired or silver haired
> samurai somewhere in between the Nara to the Muromachi periods. Possibly
> Greek in origin... I have heard folk tales here and there but nothing in
> writing.
>
> Thank you.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- "smrabbitry@..."
<smrabbitry@...> wrote:

> This is a history bored correct?

This is a history board, yes.

> I am looking for information on a mythological
> silver-haired or white haired samurai. There are old
> folk tales about a great warrior with a army, whom
> traveled the world. From the information I have, I
> have been following his tales of either him (his
> leiniage) from Greece and Rome, I lost the account
> in Japan and recovered it in Hungry durring the
> Ottoman Empire.
>
> If you have informatin or folk tales please email
> me.

Everyone is telling you that they've never heard of
it, including the Japanese members of this board. It
*SOUNDS* like something out of a fictional work like
anime.

__________________________________________________
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I'm sorry to say that, but I'm confused, too. To be honest, I don't
believe in the fact that there have been *any* greeks or romans who ever
reached Japan. In fact, if they did, and there was written or spoken
record of that, it sure would be a sensation.

And the fact that you say you recovered the records in Hungry of the
Ottoman Empire (around 1500) when nobody in Europe had ever heared any
*correct* information on Japan (or am I mistaken here?)... makes it in
fact interesting.

Could you please tell us your sources? Any other things that could help?
And from which sources did you take your folk tales? VERY important to
know... Please, enlighten us, or we're forced to assume your either
kidding us or fell for some very... insecure sources.

Thomas

smrabbitry@... wrote:

> Basically the man brought a few of his select solders to learn more fighting techniques. What I'm looking for is old scrolls of travels and documentation.
>
> This man interest me because I've followed his tales starting in Greece and Rome, to all parts of the world, over a very LONG time. It can't all be the same person, offspring I'm guessing. I've lost the story in Japan. At least the written story. I picked it up again in Hungry during the 1500's, but there is still mention of him training with the Samurai and personally protecting the emperor for some times.
>
> Anyway. I'll find it. Was just wondering if anyone had heard any folk tales, seen any paintings or art referencing a white or silver haired Samurai or any thing around that time period.
>
> Thanks,
> EB
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Maybe it would help clarify things if you discuss the information you
already have. You mentioned you have heard tales of him (or his
lineage) in Greece, Rome, and Hungary (?). How did he (or his
lineage) end up in Japan?

/Cain


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> --- "smrabbitry@..."
> wrote:
>
> > This is a history bored correct?
>
> This is a history board, yes.
>
> > I am looking for information on a mythological
> > silver-haired or white haired samurai. There are old
> > folk tales about a great warrior with a army, whom
> > traveled the world. From the information I have, I
> > have been following his tales of either him (his
> > leiniage) from Greece and Rome, I lost the account
> > in Japan and recovered it in Hungry durring the
> > Ottoman Empire.
> >
> > If you have informatin or folk tales please email
> > me.
>
> Everyone is telling you that they've never heard of
> it, including the Japanese members of this board. It
> *SOUNDS* like something out of a fictional work like
> anime.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "smrabbitry@..."
wrote:

>
> This is a history bored correct?
>
> May be my english isn't so good... I don't think I mentioned

anything about anime...

>
> Let me repost...
>
> I am looking for information on a mythological silver-haired or

white haired samurai. There are old folk tales about a great warrior
with a army, whom traveled the world. From the information I have, I
have been following his tales of either him (his leiniage) from Greece
and Rome, I lost the account in Japan and recovered it in Hungry
durring the Ottoman Empire.

>
> If you have informatin or folk tales please email me.
>

No one travelled to Japan with an army in the 1500s - I think you are
mistaking some sort of folk tale with history. Definately a folk tale
never told in Japan, maybe one told somewhere else, sort of like
Gulliver's travels or something.

I am Japanese and never heard such a folk tale.
I googled "Greecean Japan folk tale" in Japanese.
What came up was LAFCADIO・HEARN He was half Irish half Greecean.



2006/7/12, smrabbitry@... <smrabbitry@...>:

>
> Basically the man brought a few of his select solders to learn more
> fighting techniques. What I'm looking for is old scrolls of travels and
> documentation.
>
> This man interest me because I've followed his tales starting in Greece
> and Rome, to all parts of the world, over a very LONG time. It can't all be
> the same person, offspring I'm guessing. I've lost the story in Japan. At
> least the written story. I picked it up again in Hungry during the 1500's,
> but there is still mention of him training with the Samurai and personally
> protecting the emperor for some times.
>
> Anyway. I'll find it. Was just wondering if anyone had heard any folk
> tales, seen any paintings or art referencing a white or silver haired
> Samurai or any thing around that time period.
>
> Thanks,
> EB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK thank you very much. I will try other sources.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mr Rabbitry et al-
You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
but long silver hair is a common description...
-t

On Jul 13, 2006, at 2:34 PM, smrabbitry@... wrote:

> OK thank you very much. I will try other sources.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah, very interesting.
Okay, I looked it up. As far as I gather, Mitamoto-no-Yoshitsune (
1159-1189) was said to be trained by Kurama Tengu in his early age
(source: http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/critter.html#tengu).
Any thoughts on that?

Thomas
<http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/figure4.html#yoshitsune>
------------------
Tom Helm wrote

> Mr Rabbitry et al-
> You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
> some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
> swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
> but long silver hair is a common description...
> -t
>

___________________________________________________________
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Thomas Schmidt wrote:

>
>
> Ah, very interesting.
> Okay, I looked it up. As far as I gather, Mitamoto-no-Yoshitsune (
> 1159-1189) was said to be trained by Kurama Tengu in his early age
> (source: http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/critter.html#tengu
> <http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/critter.html#tengu>).
> Any thoughts on that?

If you're looking for that silver haired Greek, you're way
off. Yoshitsune is one of the best documented and written
about guys of the period. There's not that much that's NOT
known about him. His birth and upbringing are without question.


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

All sorts of cool things Japanese and SCA:
http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo

In terms of "Tengu" being caucasian... check this out :


This may be more trouble than help, but I know that alot of the X-
kans for "Ninpo"...specifically the Genbukan... make claims to some
kind of ?Macedonian? king comming to Japan and being a major player
in the formation of the country.

Actually, I think that the alleged "Amatsu Tatara" scrolls pretty
much say this King and his group is responsible for most of what
makes Japan Japan..

I hold this scrolls in high question mainly because the Genbukan
claims that only Takamatsu had the scrolls...

....but if you research, you will find that the scrolls that
allegedly make up the "Amatsu Tatara" can be found still in the Kuki
Family Archives.

Also, the Kuki family itself claims that the Amatsu Tatara
scrolls are simply just random Kuki Family (and thus, Nakatomi
Family) scrolls that Takamatsu copied and compiled randomly.

So.... what actually happened? What do the scrolls actually
contain ?

I have no idea.
Kuki family says its crap.
Genbukan says its real and teaches that westerners began most
of the Japanese tradition.

I, of course, REALLY REALLY REALLY advise that people not take
any folk tales or alleged legends immediatly to heart.

Well, first off I would stop looking at Samurai History sites and
even Japanese history and start looking at Folklore and Folktales of
Japan. That site is a good start, I think you are on the right path
and you'll find more references to Tengu that that one...
-t

On Jul 16, 2006, at 2:46 PM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:

> Ah, very interesting.
> Okay, I looked it up. As far as I gather, Mitamoto-no-Yoshitsune (
> 1159-1189) was said to be trained by Kurama Tengu in his early age
> (source: http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/critter.html#tengu).
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> Thomas
> <http://www2.kanawa.com/japan/figure4.html#yoshitsune>
> ------------------
> Tom Helm wrote
> > Mr Rabbitry et al-
> > You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
> > some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
> > swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
> > but long silver hair is a common description...
> > -t
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://
> messenger.yahoo.de
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Mr Rabbitry et al-
>You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
>some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
>swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
>but long silver hair is a common description...

Oh my.... Now some people believe Tengu is white samurai.
Tengu was originated to Chinese folk tale.
The first Japanese book that mentions Tengu was Nihonshoki.
It's just an imaginary creature.

I don't contest that. I just thought that this would be an interesting
thought. But I actually don't believe in the story much, as some other
person would have come to think the core idea of the Kurama Tengu might
have been some caucasian, if there was any likelyness it be so. Still
this is funny, but sure all Tengu are folk tale originates, and aren't
based on *any* actual persons, and most of all *no* Greek swordsman (in
the 11th century or whatsoever!).

Thomas

k kobayakawa wrote:

>> Mr Rabbitry et al-
>> You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
>> some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
>> swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
>> but long silver hair is a common description...
>>
>
> Oh my.... Now some people believe Tengu is white samurai.
> Tengu was originated to Chinese folk tale.
> The first Japanese book that mentions Tengu was Nihonshoki.
> It's just an imaginary creature.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

I agree, the notion that the Kurama Tengu are supposed to be "White Greek
swordsman" is quite farfetched. I have heard a theory that the Tengu originated
from stories of Bandits and their terrible deads. What do you think about this
theory?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tengu mentioned as yoshitsunes sword instructors were defeated minamoto
clansmen waiting they turn..regards J

>From: Thomas Schmidt <largethomassails@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] information
>Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:29:48 +0200
>
>I don't contest that. I just thought that this would be an interesting
>thought. But I actually don't believe in the story much, as some other
>person would have come to think the core idea of the Kurama Tengu might
>have been some caucasian, if there was any likelyness it be so. Still
>this is funny, but sure all Tengu are folk tale originates, and aren't
>based on *any* actual persons, and most of all *no* Greek swordsman (in
>the 11th century or whatsoever!).
>
>Thomas
>
>k kobayakawa wrote:
> >> Mr Rabbitry et al-
> >> You might want to look into the Kurama Tengu, long-nosed goblins,
> >> some say of Caucasian features who had special skills in
> >> swordsmanship and the arts of war. No one ever said they were Greek
> >> but long silver hair is a common description...
> >>
> >
> > Oh my.... Now some people believe Tengu is white samurai.
> > Tengu was originated to Chinese folk tale.
> > The first Japanese book that mentions Tengu was Nihonshoki.
> > It's just an imaginary creature.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> > ---
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
>Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
>---
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

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