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Mikatagahara - Year Fought

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#8928 [2006-07-01 07:32:22]

Mikatagahara - Year Fought

by ke_al_ze

Hello.

I was surfing the web looking for info on Mikatagahara and it left me
unclear on the year it was fought. About 50% of the sites I looked at
said it was 1572 and the other half said 1573. Does anyone know why
this is and what year the battle was actually fought?

Thanks.

[Next #8929]
#8929 [2006-07-02 06:01:20]

Re: Mikatagahara - Year Fought

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "ke_al_ze" wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
> I was surfing the web looking for info on Mikatagahara and it left me
> unclear on the year it was fought. About 50% of the sites I looked at
> said it was 1572 and the other half said 1573. Does anyone know why
> this is and what year the battle was actually fought?
>
> Thanks.
>

It depends on if you are talking "Japanese" years or "western"
years. "6th day of the first month of 1573" in "Japanese" reckoning
falls sometime near the end of 1572 (or vice versa - I don't remember
which was ahead of which).

[Previous #8928] [Next #8930]
#8930 [2006-07-02 06:05:33]

Re: Mikatagahara - Year Fought

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "ke_al_ze" wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
> I was surfing the web looking for info on Mikatagahara and it left me
> unclear on the year it was fought. About 50% of the sites I looked at
> said it was 1572 and the other half said 1573. Does anyone know why
> this is and what year the battle was actually fought?
>
> Thanks.
>

...in fact, when we first started the Samurai Archives, we didn't
discriminate between the two, so a lot of it is mixed between Japanese
and western dates. This intro to the biographical dictionary (which
used mostly contemporary Japanese dates) helps to explain:

DATES
Most dates are given in their western equivalents for the sake of
clarity for western readers. However, when dates are listed by their
contemporary reckoning, they are given as follows: era name and the
year of that era, followed by the month and day, thus, Eiroku-3 6/1
would be the 1st day of the 6th month of the 3rd year of Eiroku. Eiroku-
3 6 would indicate the 6th month of the 3rd year of Eiroku. Where a
month alone is indicated, e.g., the 10th month, that, too, is to be
considered by the contemporary reckoning (and not, in this case,
October by the Gregorian calendar.) There really isnft any simple way
to convert these dates into their Gregorian equivalents, although a
very rough rule of thumb is to add between 20 and 30 days. For
instance, Takeda Shingen, by contemporary Japanese reckoning, died on
the 12th day of the 4th month of the 4th year of Genki. By our
reckoning, he died on 13 May 1573. However, note that his rival Oda
Nobunaga was killed on the 2nd day of the 6th month of the 10th year of
Tensho, or, 21 June 1582. Thatfs may give one a sense for the
complexities of date conversion.

[Previous #8929] [Next #8932]
#8932 [2006-07-02 07:17:35]

Re: Mikatagahara - Year Fought

by ke_al_ze

Thanks fot the help. I didn't realize the Japanese calendar was that
much different than the Gregorian calendar. This is a really neat
forum by the way.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Kitsuno" listowner@...> wrote:
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "ke_al_ze"
wrote:
> >
> > Hello.
> >
> > I was surfing the web looking for info on Mikatagahara and it
left me
> > unclear on the year it was fought. About 50% of the sites I
looked at
> > said it was 1572 and the other half said 1573. Does anyone know
why
> > this is and what year the battle was actually fought?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>
> ...in fact, when we first started the Samurai Archives, we didn't
> discriminate between the two, so a lot of it is mixed between
Japanese
> and western dates. This intro to the biographical dictionary
(which
> used mostly contemporary Japanese dates) helps to explain:
>
> DATES
> Most dates are given in their western equivalents for the sake of
> clarity for western readers. However, when dates are listed by
their
> contemporary reckoning, they are given as follows: era name and
the
> year of that era, followed by the month and day, thus, Eiroku-3
6/1
> would be the 1st day of the 6th month of the 3rd year of Eiroku.
Eiroku-
> 3 6 would indicate the 6th month of the 3rd year of Eiroku. Where
a
> month alone is indicated, e.g., the 10th month, that, too, is to
be
> considered by the contemporary reckoning (and not, in this case,
> October by the Gregorian calendar.) There really isnft any simple
way
> to convert these dates into their Gregorian equivalents, although
a
> very rough rule of thumb is to add between 20 and 30 days. For
> instance, Takeda Shingen, by contemporary Japanese reckoning, died
on
> the 12th day of the 4th month of the 4th year of Genki. By our
> reckoning, he died on 13 May 1573. However, note that his rival
Oda
> Nobunaga was killed on the 2nd day of the 6th month of the 10th
year of
> Tensho, or, 21 June 1582. Thatfs may give one a sense for the
> complexities of date conversion.
>

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