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Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

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#8531 [2006-03-12 20:09:57]

Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

by kitsuno

Sunday, March 12, 2006 Failytimes.com

Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

KARACHI: Which place in the world is famous for having a population of
30 million people who managed to keep total peace for more than 250
years? The answer to this is Tokugawa Japan whose people developed
their own civilization in a self-contained environment.

Thus it comes as no surprise that Japanese expert, Tsunenari Tokugawa,
the 18th descendant of the man who started the Tokugawa period,
believes that Pakistan can only progress if it has values and
education two things that are essential for the growth of a nation as
Japan has seen.

Tsunenari Tokugawa was invited to speak at an event held by the 21st
Century Business & Economics Clubs (21st CBEC) and Institute of
Business Administration (IBA) on Friday evening.

Tokugawa is the director of the Tokugawa Memorial Foundation and lives
in New York. He is also president of NYK America. The topic of his
talk was: 'Transition from Tokugawa Shogunate to Modern Japan.'

Giving a historical account of Japan's progress, Tokugawa said that
the Tokugawa period in Japan lasted from 1603 to 1868 during which
time it progressed to the heights of which England had not seen.

For example, the literacy rate during this period was high-70 to 80
percent among males and 40 to 50 percent among females. He said the
literacy rate in most European countries and America was much lower.

More than 15,000 elementary schools, besides 260 Samurai schools and
2,000 private academies, were established all over Japan. The teaching
system of both regular primary schools and Samurai schools was
separate. The standard of education was very high at that time.

The top priority of Tukugawa Japan was its strong consensus on
national security. There was strong sense of human equality under the
class system also, Tokugawa explained.

The moral standards among the elite were high as well. He said the
elite followed the teachings of noted Chinese philosopher, Confucius.
Its people were environmentally conscious and no one cut down trees.
At the most people cut branches and bark for fuel.

At that time, a very sophisticated market economy was flourishing in
Japan and a large number of people were living in cities. For example,
the population of Tokyo at that time was one million, whereas other
important cities such as Osaka and Kyoto had a population of over
400,000 people only.

In 1850, Japan opened up its economy to the world and its first
agreement was signed with the United States. The government invited
technicians, professors and technological experts from the US and
European countries to teach the Japanese nation the latest technology
and literature. He said that people were taught in French and English
during the first decade, but later on all literature and technical
manuals were translated into Japanese, and after 20 years all foreign
experts were sent back. During that period a huge transition took
place and education at a higher level was also initiated in Japanese.

From 1868 to 1945, Japan witnessed 77 years of imperial rule during
which it fought many wars, the last being World War II, which it
eventually lost. Still, Tokugawa said the Japanese managed to maintain
their values.

Tokugawa, nevertheless, admitted that Japan is facing some social
problems. For example, young people do not marry, which is causing a
huge problem for Japanese families. He also said that more than 25
percent of the overall Japanese population is older than 65 years.

Tokugawa also said that the old buildings were being demolished for
new and modern plazas, which was a matter of serious concern.

[Next #8532]

#8532 [2006-03-13 02:06:40]

Re: Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

by lost90804

> From: "Kitsuno" <samurai-listowner@...>
>
>Sunday, March 12, 2006 Failytimes.com
>
>Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years
>
>
Except for the occaisional rebellion.

>KARACHI: Which place in the world is famous for having a population of
>30 million people who managed to keep total peace for more than 250
>years?
>
Total peace? Politely put, hogwash.

>Thus it comes as no surprise that Japanese expert, Tsunenari Tokugawa,
>the 18th descendant of the man who started the Tokugawa period,
>believes that Pakistan can only progress if it has values and
>education two things that are essential for the growth of a nation as
>Japan has seen.
>
>
That might be true.

>Giving a historical account of Japan's progress, Tokugawa said that
>the Tokugawa period in Japan lasted from 1603 to 1868 during which
>time it progressed to the heights of which England had not seen.
>
>
??? Who's better off? A Japanese peasant or a British farmer?
Especially later I think the answer is easy.

>For example, the literacy rate during this period was high-70 to 80
>percent among males and 40 to 50 percent among females. He said the
>literacy rate in most European countries and America was much lower.
>
>
Interesting quote, how is it figured? Does it count peasants or is it
just people, i.e. merchants and samurai... Following figures are from a
website, bs alert!
The situation in America roughly parallels that in England. In 1650,
male literacy in America was 60%. Between 1800 and 1840, literacy in the
Northern States increased from 75% to 90%, and in Southern States from
60% to 81%.

>More than 15,000 elementary schools, besides 260 Samurai schools and
>2,000 private academies, were established all over Japan. The teaching
>system of both regular primary schools and Samurai schools was
>separate. The standard of education was very high at that time.
>
>
I've seen Meiji textbooks, funny man.

>The top priority of Tukugawa Japan was its strong consensus on
>national security. There was strong sense of human equality under the
>class system also, Tokugawa explained.
>
>
Rotfl This sentence is awesome!!! My peasants love me, pull!

>The moral standards among the elite were high as well. He said the
>elite followed the teachings of noted Chinese philosopher, Confucius.
>Its people were environmentally conscious and no one cut down trees.
>At the most people cut branches and bark for fuel.
>
>
This guy is really so full of it that I almost can't stand it... How did
they rebuild Edo which had a tendency to burn down every few years.

>At that time, a very sophisticated market economy was flourishing in
>Japan and a large number of people were living in cities. For example,
>the population of Tokyo at that time was one million, whereas other
>important cities such as Osaka and Kyoto had a population of over
>400,000 people only.
>
>
That part is true. The rise of the great cities and the merchant class
are the major event in this era.

>and after 20 years all foreign experts were sent back.
>
Not even.

>During that period a huge transition took place and education at a higher level was also initiated in Japanese.
>
>
I forget which private university in the 1900s had an Anglo dean with
the saying like "Be bold or conquer" or something along those lines.

>>From 1868 to 1945, Japan witnessed 77 years of imperial rule during
>which it fought many wars, the last being World War II, which it
>eventually lost. Still, Tokugawa said the Japanese managed to maintain
>their values.
>
>
I wonder which ones he's talking about? Post-war Japan is an actual
democratic nation with a very modern outlook. Nobody has to sell their
daughters anymore to make ends meet.

>Tokugawa, nevertheless, admitted that Japan is facing some social
>problems. For example, young people do not marry, which is causing a
>huge problem for Japanese families. He also said that more than 25
>percent of the overall Japanese population is older than 65 years.
>
>
Raising a family in a 400 square foot apartment would tend to put a
damper on things. A friend of mine thought Stanford had made a mistake
and put her in married housing and we told her no, a 550 square foot
studio is a fairly normal size for one person in the US.

>Tokugawa also said that the old buildings were being demolished for
>new and modern plazas, which was a matter of serious concern.
>
>
Some of them should be demolished, they are firetraps! While I like old
buildings, I can sympathize with my Japanese friends who can only
remember smelly toilets, poor lighting and heating.

Thanks for sharing, it was good for a few laughs. Of course press
releases have a tendency to be overly upbeat.

Jim Eckman

[Previous #8531] [Next #8533]

#8533 [2006-03-13 04:57:37]

Re: Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

by kitsuno

My favorite line was the one about how Japanese "didn't cut down
trees". Now, I'm no expert, but all of those tokugawa-era buildings
and temples didn't look like they were made out of bamboo or brick
to me...



--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, James Eckman
wrote:
>
>
> > From: "Kitsuno"
> >
> >Sunday, March 12, 2006 Failytimes.com
> >
> >Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years
> >
> >
> Except for the occaisional rebellion.
>
> >KARACHI: Which place in the world is famous for having a
population of
> >30 million people who managed to keep total peace for more than
250
> >years?
> >
> Total peace? Politely put, hogwash.
>
> >Thus it comes as no surprise that Japanese expert, Tsunenari
Tokugawa,
> >the 18th descendant of the man who started the Tokugawa period,
> >believes that Pakistan can only progress if it has values and
> >education two things that are essential for the growth of a
nation as
> >Japan has seen.
> >
> >
> That might be true.
>
> >Giving a historical account of Japan's progress, Tokugawa said
that
> >the Tokugawa period in Japan lasted from 1603 to 1868 during which
> >time it progressed to the heights of which England had not seen.
> >
> >
> ??? Who's better off? A Japanese peasant or a British farmer?
> Especially later I think the answer is easy.
>
> >For example, the literacy rate during this period was high-70 to
80
> >percent among males and 40 to 50 percent among females. He said
the
> >literacy rate in most European countries and America was much
lower.
> >
> >
> Interesting quote, how is it figured? Does it count peasants or is
it
> just people, i.e. merchants and samurai... Following figures are
from a
> website, bs alert!
> The situation in America roughly parallels that in England. In
1650,
> male literacy in America was 60%. Between 1800 and 1840, literacy
in the
> Northern States increased from 75% to 90%, and in Southern States
from
> 60% to 81%.
>
> >More than 15,000 elementary schools, besides 260 Samurai schools
and
> >2,000 private academies, were established all over Japan. The
teaching
> >system of both regular primary schools and Samurai schools was
> >separate. The standard of education was very high at that time.
> >
> >
> I've seen Meiji textbooks, funny man.
>
> >The top priority of Tukugawa Japan was its strong consensus on
> >national security. There was strong sense of human equality under
the
> >class system also, Tokugawa explained.
> >
> >
> Rotfl This sentence is awesome!!! My peasants love me, pull!
>
> >The moral standards among the elite were high as well. He said the
> >elite followed the teachings of noted Chinese philosopher,
Confucius.
> >Its people were environmentally conscious and no one cut down
trees.
> >At the most people cut branches and bark for fuel.
> >
> >
> This guy is really so full of it that I almost can't stand it...
How did
> they rebuild Edo which had a tendency to burn down every few years.
>
> >At that time, a very sophisticated market economy was flourishing
in
> >Japan and a large number of people were living in cities. For
example,
> >the population of Tokyo at that time was one million, whereas
other
> >important cities such as Osaka and Kyoto had a population of over
> >400,000 people only.
> >
> >
> That part is true. The rise of the great cities and the merchant
class
> are the major event in this era.
>
> >and after 20 years all foreign experts were sent back.
> >
> Not even.
>
> >During that period a huge transition took place and education at
a higher level was also initiated in Japanese.
> >
> >
> I forget which private university in the 1900s had an Anglo dean
with
> the saying like "Be bold or conquer" or something along those
lines.
>
> >>From 1868 to 1945, Japan witnessed 77 years of imperial rule
during
> >which it fought many wars, the last being World War II, which it
> >eventually lost. Still, Tokugawa said the Japanese managed to
maintain
> >their values.
> >
> >
> I wonder which ones he's talking about? Post-war Japan is an
actual
> democratic nation with a very modern outlook. Nobody has to sell
their
> daughters anymore to make ends meet.
>
> >Tokugawa, nevertheless, admitted that Japan is facing some social
> >problems. For example, young people do not marry, which is
causing a
> >huge problem for Japanese families. He also said that more than 25
> >percent of the overall Japanese population is older than 65 years.
> >
> >
> Raising a family in a 400 square foot apartment would tend to put
a
> damper on things. A friend of mine thought Stanford had made a
mistake
> and put her in married housing and we told her no, a 550 square
foot
> studio is a fairly normal size for one person in the US.
>
> >Tokugawa also said that the old buildings were being demolished
for
> >new and modern plazas, which was a matter of serious concern.
> >
> >
> Some of them should be demolished, they are firetraps! While I
like old
> buildings, I can sympathize with my Japanese friends who can only
> remember smelly toilets, poor lighting and heating.
>
> Thanks for sharing, it was good for a few laughs. Of course press
> releases have a tendency to be overly upbeat.
>
> Jim Eckman
>

[Previous #8532] [Next #8534]

#8534 [2006-03-14 02:16:14]

Re: Re: Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

by lost90804

> From: "Kitsuno" <samurai-listowner@...>
>
>My favorite line was the one about how Japanese "didn't cut down
>trees". Now, I'm no expert, but all of those tokugawa-era buildings
>and temples didn't look like they were made out of bamboo or brick
>to me...
>
>
Reminds me a bit of Buckminster Fuller on a roll, a few good ideas
surrounded by lots of hot air.

Jim Eckman

[Previous #8533] [Next #8542]

#8542 [2006-03-15 07:14:06]

Re: Where 30m people kept the peace for 250 years

by shikisokuzekukusokuzeshiki8

>Tokugawa also said that the old buildings were being demolished for
>new and modern plazas, which was a matter of serious concern.

My biggest disappointment was Ikedaya turned into pachinko parlor.

[Previous #8534]


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