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Insult from tea

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#8427 [2006-02-21 00:33:55]

Insult from tea

by capt_bochan

I am told that during the tea ceremony turning the chawan clockwise
when returning it to the host was an indication of hostilities to come.
Since samurai held the ceremony under such high regard they would never
outwardly show anything but respect to thier host and instead used this
simple gesture to display thier true feelings.

I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this and can purhaps shed
light on it's origin.

Hirai

[Next #8432]

#8432 [2006-02-21 15:03:54]

Re: [samuraihistory] Insult from tea

by ltdomer98

--- Rob <capt_bochan@...> wrote:

> I am told that during the tea ceremony turning the
> chawan clockwise
> when returning it to the host was an indication of
> hostilities to come.
> Since samurai held the ceremony under such high
> regard they would never
> outwardly show anything but respect to thier host
> and instead used this
> simple gesture to display thier true feelings.

Sounds like someone trying to read too much into
things, or something an author made up (Clavell, for
instance) to further his image of the "inscrutable"
Japanese. In my Sado experience, when you receive the
tea bowl, you turn in clockwise to get to the drinking
side (each bowl has a "face", which the host presents
to you, and you drink from the side opposite the face,
so you have to turn it). Once done, you turn it back
counterclockwise. Some schools make a big deal of
turning it 3 times (not completely around, but using 3
motions to turn it halfway around), some don't--it
just depends. B ut no, I've never ever ehard of the
direction indicating your hostile intentions--sounds
like complete bunk to me.


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#8434 [2006-02-21 15:24:35]

Re: Insult from tea

by capt_bochan

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- Rob wrote:
>
> > I am told that during the tea ceremony turning the
> > chawan clockwise
> > when returning it to the host was an indication of
> > hostilities to come.
> > Since samurai held the ceremony under such high
> > regard they would never
> > outwardly show anything but respect to thier host
> > and instead used this
> > simple gesture to display thier true feelings.
>
> Sounds like someone trying to read too much into
> things, or something an author made up (Clavell, for
> instance) to further his image of the "inscrutable"
> Japanese. In my Sado experience, when you receive the
> tea bowl, you turn in clockwise to get to the drinking
> side (each bowl has a "face", which the host presents
> to you, and you drink from the side opposite the face,
> so you have to turn it). Once done, you turn it back
> counterclockwise. Some schools make a big deal of
> turning it 3 times (not completely around, but using 3
> motions to turn it halfway around), some don't--it
> just depends. B ut no, I've never ever ehard of the
> direction indicating your hostile intentions--sounds
> like complete bunk to me.
>
> Thanks I agree. This tale was told by one of the local tea farmers
here in Kanaya, a town known for fine green tea. Since this man has
a bit of a reputation for rambling on in subjects he knows little
about I thought it would be interesting to get the group's expert
opinion.

Thanks again
Hirai
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

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#8435 [2006-02-21 15:49:06]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by chunjouonimusha

Since we are on the subject of Ocha; I was wondering if anyone could remeber
the grades fo Tea... There is one that is held in very high regard... and
then there are lower class teas... if anyone cold give me this information I
would be very interessted... and a source for those teas would also be good..
Thanks in advance...

Robert desu...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#8436 [2006-02-21 15:55:04]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by ltdomer98

--- seikei7248@... wrote:

> Since we are on the subject of Ocha; I was
> wondering if anyone could remeber
> the grades fo Tea... There is one that is held in
> very high regard... and
> then there are lower class teas... if anyone cold
> give me this information I
> would be very interessted... and a source for those
> teas would also be good..
> Thanks in advance...

http://www.iris.or.jp/~hamadaen/chishiki/shurui-e.html



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#8437 [2006-02-21 16:52:10]

Re: Insult from tea

by capt_bochan

Matcha tea is the highest grade used for the tea ceremony. During
harvesting only the small stems called tencha are used. Everyday
table tea is called bancha. The lowest grade generally harvested
from the second or third cutting season. The first cutting in April
is the best and brings the majority of the farmer's annual income. A
step up from Bancha is Sencha harvested from the top two leaves of
the tea bush. Here in Shizuoka Japan we grow gyokuro tea which is
another fine grade of tea. Also using only the first cutting the
leaves are shaded two to three weeks before harvesting. This process
locks in the flavor. Inbetween these types are many mixes to produce
unique flavors. If you are interested I could explain each in
detail.

Hirai

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, seikei7248@... wrote:
>
> Since we are on the subject of Ocha; I was wondering if anyone
could remeber
> the grades fo Tea... There is one that is held in very high
regard... and
> then there are lower class teas... if anyone cold give me this
information I
> would be very interessted... and a source for those teas would
also be good..
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Robert desu...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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#8438 [2006-02-21 15:57:30]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by chunjouonimusha

In a message dated 2/21/2006 6:55:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ltdomer98@... writes:
www.iris.or.jp/~hamadaen/chishiki/shurui-e.html
Thanks this was very helpful... I am grateful... and after I sent my
message I notice all the typo's... and feel over.. lol.. Again Thanks you very
much.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#8439 [2006-02-21 19:45:29]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by musashibobenkei

On 2/21/06, seikei7248@... <seikei7248@...> wrote:
>
> Since we are on the subject of Ocha; I was wondering if anyone could
> remeber
> the grades fo Tea... There is one that is held in very high
> regard... and
> then there are lower class teas... if anyone cold give me this
> information I
> would be very interessted... and a source for those teas would also be
> good..
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Robert desu...


A good source in the US is David Chen of White Crane Tea, in San Francisco.
His contact details are on my "About us" page on my website. His website is
under construction.


--
Craig Harris
Books from and about Asia
www.bridgeofdreams.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#8441 [2006-02-22 15:06:27]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by chunjouonimusha

Thanks to all of those who sent me site and answer to my question about Tea
grades. They are most welcomed... And it is very interesting. I am a big
Green tea Drinker.. LOL about eight cups a day. give or take. So again Thanks
and I find this forum to be most interesting.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#8579 [2006-03-25 21:47:12]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by drnostrand

Hi.

I just noticed the tea discussion. It sounds like your farmer was
pulling your leg. The whole story sounds pretty much wrong. The way to
really get on someone's nerves is to be excessively polite, not turning
a tea bowl backwards. The really big problem with turning a tea bowl
backwards is it makes yourself look bad. Not an all an acceptable
approach for displaying pique. Incidentally, tea bowls are descended
from Chinese herbal medicine bowls as are several other tea implements.
In theory, and occasionally in practice, every bowl has a spout for
administering medicine. Since you are not ill, you turn the bowl so
that spout points away from you. Also, Urasenke is one of the tea
schools which is into threes.

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#8580 [2006-03-25 21:51:31]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Insult from tea

by drnostrand

Hi.

> Since we are on the subject of Ocha;  I was wondering if anyone could
> remeber
> the grades fo Tea...  There is one that is held in very high
> regard...  and
> then there are lower class teas...  if anyone cold give me this
> information  I
> would be very interessted...  and a source for those teas would also
> be good..
> Thanks in advance... 
Tea is an extremely messy subject. There are several different plants
used to make one sort of tea or another. There are several different
tea ceremonies before you even start talking about tea schools. The
earliest type of tea introduced to Japan was called dancha and is
practically undrinkable. Or at least, it never became particularly
popular. I suggest that you read one of the introductory tea books. For
example, there is one in English by Sen Shoshitsu. I believe that
Herbert Plutschow has also written a book about tea.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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