>
>
> From: "Boal, Nina" <Nina.Boal@...>
>Subject: RE: Change of subject
>
>The Tokugawa regime was amazing. Probably the longest-surviving
>authoritarian regime that I can think of off-hand.
>
The Ottoman's come to mind, England, maybe France (the ruling house
changed around a lot) etc. Dictatorship was the common government until
recently and is still popular in some parts of the world.
>It's interesting to study
>to find out about the nature of authoritarian regimes, especially ones as
>successful in its longetivity as this one.
>
>
Yes it's interesting.
>Hopefully there will be more discussion on this.
>
>
Of course....
> From: Jan Versoza <janversoza@...>
>
>I think one of the main reasons why the Tokugawa
>regime lasted so long was because of the style of
>swordsmanship they studied.
>
ROTFL. Guns don't care about fancy sword moves. The Tokugawa's were
militarily very progressive when they first took power. They could have
fought any other power straight up in 1600 and probably come out the
victor because of the size of their army and reasonable tactics and
strategy.
>From: Anthony Bryant <anthony_bryant@...>
>
>
>I rather think it had more to do with their politics and
>their alliances than their school of swordsmanship.
>
>Martial arts were never the be-all and end-all of Japanese
>history, despite the illusions of some modern dojo masters.
>
>
I think strategy and tactics are martial arts as well, they studied
these pretty carefully when they first started!
> From: "Haynes, A \(Angus\)" <angus.haynes@...> The Tokugawa
> bakufu lasted as long as it did because of the methods introduced
> early on in regards to controlling the clans and the strategic
> position of lands that were under direct bakufu control. These were
> the reasons that it lasted as long as it did despite it's many problems.
>
The rotating hostage attendance system was a great example. Kept the
other clans broke and under their thumb.
> From: Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...>
>
>Angus: "Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did
>you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you
>see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?"
>
>
Is 'Life of Brian or the 'Holy Grail' the greatest Python movie ;)
> From: Peter Bailey <foxfoil@...>
>
>I am not a huge expert on the Tokugawa era, but from what I have read
>on the subject, it seems that the regime survived more thanks to some
>of its suppressing laws.
>for example peasants not being allowed to leave their land,
>daimyos having to spend long periods of time in Edo and having to
>leave their families as "hostages" while they were away.
>
>
Peasants are like rape seed, the more you squeeze them, the more oil you
get. I think that's an Ieyasu quote. What a nice guy!
> From: Mateusz Ostrowski <ostrowski75@...>
>
>But the politics were shaped by the martial arts. The way they were thinking and planning was a "fruit" of their's commitment to martial arts. By the way, it wasn't only a martial art but the way of thinking.
>
>
Kenjutsu never comes across as anything special in any of the lives of
the early unifiers of Japan that I've ever read, fun TV series aside. It
was like taking math, they studied the required bits because everyone of
their class did but nut much else. Otherwise it would have been the
'Musashi' bakufu ;)
> Matt
>
> From: Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> --- Mateusz Ostrowski
> <ostrowski75@...> wrote:
>
>>> But the politics were shaped by the martial arts.
>>
>>
>
>No, they weren't--at least not nearly as much as by
>expediency, a desire to secure and remain in power,
>socioeconomic factors, etc. Tokugawa Ieyasu was not
>some mystical warrior-monk who ran out and did a sword
>kata every time he had to make some critical political
>decision. If anything, he was the ultimate pragmatist.
>
>
I think he even had a nasty comment about fancy heirloom swords, but I
could easily have mixed him up with Oda or someone else.
I personally study 'sit on my butt-fu' myself ;)
Jim Eckman