You made a great pont on a bad analogy. I could be beating a dead horse here but his title was samurai and he is known for his dueling capabilities. With this in mind doesnt that mean something toward his account. Ok put it this way if you did not know abt Japanese history or culture but that one name that is a house hold name has to be Musashi. Kind of like Einstien and Chemestry. I hope this makes more sense.
Love, Grace, and Peace
Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- james wilson <
johntwo8@...> wrote:
> I was thinking about what Nate had said and it came
> to me take Mike Jordan for instance, many stories
> about hime many books and if basketball was to end
> as we know it in a century or so wouldnt he go down
> in history as the greatest ever. Musashi gets my
> vote greatest samurai ever.
Michael Jordan won 6 NBA Championships. He was 5 time
NBA Most Valuable Player. 6 time NBA finals MVP.
1987-88 Defensive player of the year, and voted all
NBA defensive team 9 times. Voted All-NBA first team
10 times. Holds the NBA record for most seasons (10)
leading the league in scoring. 13 time All-Star.
There's not enough space to go into all the records
he's got. He dominated the NBA the way no one with the
possible exception of Wilt Chamberlain did--and not
even Wilt made his teammates better like Jordan. The
vast majority of sports pundits don't even question
that Jordan is/was the best NBA player ever. There is
too much evidence, both statistics and championships,
that show he was the best.
Now, I'll grant that modern sports documents things
much better than 17th century martial arts. However,
that's EXACTLY why your argument is flawed, James. You
can't say "Musashi was like Michael Jordan, so he was
the best ever", because you can't show me WHY he was
like Michael Jordan. Did he set records? Win
championships? No--because he wasn't competing in
sports. It's apples and oranges.
There are researchers who claim that Musashi's famous
duel with Sasaki Kojiro didn't actually take place,
others who claim that Musashi actually ordered some of
his disciples to ambush Kojiro, etc. I don't see
anyone claiming that Jordan didn't take the final shot
of the 1998 NBA Finals against Utah, that it was
really Scottie Pippen.
Rather than relying on a flawed analogy to a modern
sports icon (an analogy which gets blocked faster than
me trying to take on Shaq one-on-one), why doesn't
anyone build a real case for why Musashi is The
Greatest Samurai Ever(tm)? Why, if you try, will you
fail to convince me that he is said The Greatest
Samurai Ever(tm)?
PRECISELY for the reason that James's analogy fails.
You can list out Jordan's accomplishments, records,
championships, etc. They are directly quantifiable and
comparable to other NBA players. You can debate
whether Jordan's 6 MVP's are better than Bill
Russell's 5 MVP titles, etc. Maybe you have to take
into account different era's, level of competition,
position played, etc., but you're still comparing
apples to apples.
Contrast this with the Greatest Samurai Ever(tm)--what
are the criteria? For some, it might be impact on
history--Minamoto Yoritomo, Hojo Tokimune, Tokugawa
Ieyasu, etc. might be your nominees. For some, it may
be patronage of the arts--Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, Oda
Nobunaga, etc. Perhaps it's tactical and strategic
acumen as displayed as a commander of troops--Oda
Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Minamoto Yoshitsune,
Takenaka Hanbei, Uesugi Kenshin, Takeda Shingen....and
on....and on... Maybe it's individual courage and
loyalty? Benkei, Torii Suneemon, Kusunoki Masashige,
Torii Mototada, Yamanaka Shikanosuke, the 47 loyal
retainers of Ako, and many more would apply.
Individual prowess on the battlefield? Benkei again,
Yoshitsune, Kato Kiyomasa, Kamiizumi Nobutsuna... Made
the most of themselves? I think Toyotomi Hideyoshi
would win that hands down, but I'm sure some could
argue for others. Contibutions to samurai thought?
Yoritomo, Ieyasu, Kusunoki, Imagawa Ryoshun, Kato
Kiyomasa...and yes, for GoRin no Sho you could put in
Musashi.
There are those, perhaps, that consider individual
contributions to the martial arts, and Musashi would
definitely be a candidate for this. But so would about
3 members of the Yagyuu family, Kamiizumi Nobutsuna,
Tsukahara Bokuden, and others. Is that enough to give
Musashi GreatestSamuraiEver(tm) status? Over all the
other criteria I've mentioned, and all the other
samurai I've mentioned? In my mind, no--to give him
Best Ever status, you've got to explain WHY he's
better than every other samurai in history.
Michael Jordan? We can show (and anyone who saw him
play knows) why he was the best to ever play
basketball. Miyamoto Musashi? Being the most
well-known and talked about duelist doesn't even make
him the best duelist, much less the Greatest Samurai
Ever(tm). Though I do think he would have made a
decent point guard.
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