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Hagakure (was RE: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?)

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#7767 [2005-10-05 10:14:01]

Hagakure (was RE: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?)

by ninaboal21044

-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of dsigler1@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:13 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?

[snips]

Also worth reading, "Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai." By Yamamoto
Tsunetomo.
----------------------
Aha, I get to go into my full-fledged rant against "Hagekure." Don't get me
wrong, there are a few worthwhile things in the book. But as a Manual of
Bushido (whatever that is) it falls far short. I'm not sure how this book
got into the general public -- as far as I know, Yamamoto intended this to
be a private correspondance with members of his clan.

That being said: Yamamoto never fought in any battles in his life. He knew
nothing at all about what it was like to actually face the concept of death;
he had never experienced this, never fought in a battle, never faced
grinding poverty or hunger. It was relatively easy for him to rant and rave
about how samurai "act like women" (what did he know about being a woman?
Nothing at all >: ) from the comfort of his peaceful quarters.

Why did he excortiate the 47 Ako Ronin who avenged their lord? He claimed
that the Ako ronin should have commited mass seppuku rather than wait and
plan to actually avenge their lord. It's quite easy to advocate mass seppuku
when it is someone else -- never yourself -- facing such a situation. When
you have never have faced watching your lord be sentenced to seppuku, never
faced the prospects of being forced to leave your castle and fief behind to
be "tossed by the waves" (the literal meaning of "ronin").

The world has been filled with various politicians and philosophers who talk
about facing death and being brave in battle -- when they have never faced
the situation themselves. HAGAKURE is one of the most over-rated,
over-wrought works of alleged philosophy that exists. I'd much rather read
the accounts of common soldiers or activists who actually know about what it
is truly like to face death.

Just my two mon here about this.


Nina

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#7774 [2005-10-06 06:48:04]

Re: Hagakure (was RE: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?)

by deanwayland

Hi Nina,

>Aha, I get to go into my full-fledged rant against "Hagekure."

>Just my two mon here about this.
>
>Nina


A very well spent two mon indeed, and thank you for sparing me the
effort (and expense) :-)

Yours

Dean
***
Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

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#7775 [2005-10-06 08:54:46]

RE: Hagakure (was RE: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?)

by ninaboal21044

Oooh, but I WANT to see your full-fledged rant against "Hagekure." I'm so
sick of seeing this described as "THE Way of the Samurai" or else "THE
Definitive Code of Bushido". :<

Nina

-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dean Wayland
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:48 AM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Hagakure (was RE: [samuraihistory] hitokiri kawakami gensai?)

Hi Nina,

>Aha, I get to go into my full-fledged rant against "Hagekure."

>Just my two mon here about this.
>
>Nina


A very well spent two mon indeed, and thank you for sparing me the effort
(and expense) :-)

Yours

Dean
***
Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk



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