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meaning of names

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#772 [2002-04-21 14:20:13]

meaning of names

by jaxy_t

Hello, all of you. My name is Taneiko and it's a Japanese name, and
I would like to know what it means, so if you could help, I'd greatly
appreciate it. I'd also like to know the name for the meaning "spirit
f the tiger". All I know at this moment is that it begins w/ the
letter "T". Thank you in advance for your assistance.

[Next #774]

#774 [2002-04-22 10:21:46]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

jaxy_t wrote:

> Hello, all of you. My name is Taneiko and it's a Japanese name, and
> I would like to know what it means, so if you could help, I'd greatly
> appreciate it.

Without the kanji, it would be impossible. Frankly "Taneiko" doesn't sound
typically Japanese to me. Taneko would, but Taneiko... something seems odd.

> I'd also like to know the name for the meaning "spirit
> f the tiger". All I know at this moment is that it begins w/ the
> letter "T". Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Tiger is "Tora" but as for "spirit of the tiger..." Sorry. This doesn't seem
Japanese.


Tony

[Previous #772] [Next #775]

#775 [2002-04-22 18:25:42]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by brandonlist

thi s sugegstion might be stpid, but can't it be Torakami?
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony J. Bryant
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names


jaxy_t wrote:

> Hello, all of you. My name is Taneiko and it's a Japanese name, and
> I would like to know what it means, so if you could help, I'd greatly
> appreciate it.

Without the kanji, it would be impossible. Frankly "Taneiko" doesn't sound
typically Japanese to me. Taneko would, but Taneiko... something seems odd.

> I'd also like to know the name for the meaning "spirit
> f the tiger". All I know at this moment is that it begins w/ the
> letter "T". Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Tiger is "Tora" but as for "spirit of the tiger..." Sorry. This doesn't seem
Japanese.


Tony


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[Previous #774] [Next #778]

#778 [2002-04-22 06:45:40]

Re: meaning of names

by sinseism

Hi, "Taneiko" Um...It is a little unusual name in Japan.
One possibilitie is that "tane" means "seed". But give me more info
such as the person who named your name,your gender...

"Tiger" is "tora" in Japanese.
Is "spirit of the tiger" also person's name?It seems to be rare too.

Regards

Shinsei


--- In samuraihistory@y..., "jaxy_t" wrote:
> Hello, all of you. My name is Taneiko and it's a Japanese name,
and
> I would like to know what it means, so if you could help, I'd
greatly
> appreciate it. I'd also like to know the name for the
meaning "spirit
> f the tiger". All I know at this moment is that it begins w/ the
> letter "T". Thank you in advance for your assistance.

[Previous #775] [Next #779]

#779 [2002-04-22 22:04:38]

Re: meaning of names

by kitsuno

Well, literally it would be 'tora no tamashii' . . . which may or may
not be the effect you are looking for.

> > I'd also like to know the name for the meaning "spirit
> > f the tiger". All I know at this moment is that it begins w/ the
> > letter "T". Thank you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Tiger is "Tora" but as for "spirit of the tiger..." Sorry. This
doesn't seem
> Japanese.
>
>
> Tony

[Previous #778] [Next #780]

#780 [2002-04-23 06:07:17]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

Brand wrote:

> thi s sugegstion might be stpid, but can't it be Torakami?

No, it can't.


Tony

[Previous #779] [Next #782]

#782 [2002-04-23 11:32:00]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by torakamibloodfang

I've used Torakami as a name for a char. who was supposed to be called "Tiger
Spirit", "Tiger God", "Tiger Lord" or whatever meaning for "kami" you prefer.
For translation arguments sake I just had the people start calling him "Tora
no kami" and after a while he just decided to shorten it and told them to
just call him "Torakami". I like to be accurate when I write so if this
would be unacceptable please inform me.

~Bloodfang~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #780] [Next #783]

#783 [2002-04-23 09:11:16]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by jaxy_t

Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
such an authority on Japanese culture that you can
discount any and every suggestions someone has that
doesn't meet w/ your approval. What Brand had to say
wasn't at all stupid and it is very possible that he's
correct. As far as my name goes, there is nothing odd
about it and it is very much a Japanese name that was
given to me by my great-grandmother who happened to be
Japanese, which goes to show that you're not as much
an authority as you seem to give yourself credit for
being.
As for everyone else who has responded, thank you
so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated and
if you have any other suggestions, please don't
hesitate to let me know what they are.
Taneiko
--- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...> wrote:
> Brand wrote:
>
> > thi s sugegstion might be stpid, but can't it be
> Torakami?
>
> No, it can't.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>



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[Previous #782] [Next #784]

#784 [2002-04-23 19:55:54]

Re: meaning of names

by iganokami

> Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> such an authority on Japanese culture

I'll try not to laugh, and just post this link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-
keywords=anthony%20j.%20bryant&bq=1/103-4071039-9447008

Go easy on him, Tony ;)

anyway, I'm sure he didn't mean offense - - My wife, who is Japanese
(from Japan, not JA) has never heard the name either, so I think it is
an honest mistake - it must be a rare name, or one that has fallen
out of use - or even a local variation on another, more 'typical'
name. As for 'Torakami' - it isn't a word, and if the two characters
were seen together they would be read something like 'kojin' -
although I doubt that's a word. Like another poster on here stated,
'tora no tamashii' would litteraly mean 'spirit of the tiger'.
Toranokami would be pretty cool, but I don't know how well it would
fit in 'reality' since all of the ~no kamis were always preceeded by
the name of a province.

[Previous #783] [Next #785]

#785 [2002-04-23 21:13:11]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

Taneiko Griffith wrote:

> Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> such an authority on Japanese culture that you can
> discount any and every suggestions someone has that
> doesn't meet w/ your approval. What Brand had to say
> wasn't at all stupid and it is very possible that he's
> correct.

Did I say it was stupid? I said it's not a name.

"Kami" means "god" or "deity" specifically, not "the spirit of something."
So first of all, it's impossible for "Torakami" to means "spirit of the
tiger." If anything, it would be "tiger god."

> As far as my name goes, there is nothing odd
> about it and it is very much a Japanese name that was
> given to me by my great-grandmother who happened to be
> Japanese, which goes to show that you're not as much
> an authority as you seem to give yourself credit for
> being.

Then perhaps you will recall that my exact words were "Without the kanji, it
would be impossible. Frankly "Taneiko" doesn't sound typically Japanese to
me. Taneko would, but Taneiko... something seems odd."

Well, here goes.

Women's names using "-ko" endings are typically one kanji (haru, yuki, hana)
plus the finishing "-ko." There is *no* kanji that has "tamei" as a reading.
To get to "tanei" you need two kanji (or more) to produce tane+i, or ta+nei,
or ta+ne+i (the last one, meaning a four kanji name, is statistically
improbable. Therefore we're stuck with "tane+i" or "ta+nei." Since there few
kanji with the reading "nei", but not often seen in names, we're
functionally limited, then to "tane+i", which produces the question, which
kanji combination would allow a (positive meaning) name combining the
syllables tane+i+ko?

There are a few names that are listed in my books with the reading "Taneko"
(no "i") -- one "tane" meaning "seed/kernel" and the other meaning
"egg/seed" or "sincerity." There is a third "tane" which pops up in names --
"issue/offspring" -- but it's very unusual these days.

So what we have is a very improbably Tane*i*ko, but a very probable Tane[no
*i*]ko.

Now, it's possible that whoever Romanized the name added the "i" to make
sure people would pronounce it properly (like the errant "y" that sometimes
pops up in Ma[y]eda and U[y]eda. These variant readings are common, however.
Taneiko is not. Therefore, again, we're back to "either the name is Taneko
and someone mis-Romanized it" or "it's not a typical Japanese name."

Do you find a flaw with the argument or with the [original] conclusion?

For the record, Japanese onomastics, especially historical onomastics, is a
field I study, and I study it seriously.

Before you get all huffy, perhaps you should consider that some people *do*
know more than you do.



Tony

[Previous #784] [Next #786]

#786 [2002-04-23 21:16:43]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

LordBloodfang@... wrote:

> I've used Torakami as a name for a char. who was supposed to be called "Tiger
> Spirit", "Tiger God", "Tiger Lord" or whatever meaning for "kami" you prefer.
> For translation arguments sake I just had the people start calling him "Tora
> no kami" and after a while he just decided to shorten it and told them to
> just call him "Torakami". I like to be accurate when I write so if this
> would be unacceptable please inform me.
>

Well, if he's human, yes, it's not an appropriate name. If he's the god of
tigers, then it's fine.

Tony

[Previous #785] [Next #787]

#787 [2002-04-23 21:29:38]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

iganokami wrote:

> > Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> > such an authority on Japanese culture
>
> I'll try not to laugh, and just post this link:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-
> keywords=anthony%20j.%20bryant&bq=1/103-4071039-9447008
>
> Go easy on him, Tony ;)
>

I'll let you judge whether I did.

>
> anyway, I'm sure he didn't mean offense - - My wife, who is Japanese
> (from Japan, not JA) has never heard the name either, so I think it is
> an honest mistake - it must be a rare name, or one that has fallen
> out of use - or even a local variation on another, more 'typical'
> name.

That's what I think. I think someone stuck an extra vowel in there. But
honestly, whether it should be "taneko" or even "taniko" I couldn't say. And
given the great number of homophones in Japanese, the typical response must
be, "without the kanji the question 'what does it mean' is itself
meaningless."

> As for 'Torakami' - it isn't a word, and if the two characters
> were seen together they would be read something like 'kojin' -
> although I doubt that's a word.

Frankly, that was my first inclination, as well. But then again, I've been
doing too much lately with archaic Chinese stuff, so the Sino-Japanese
reading came to mind first. I'd like to be able to say "Tora no kami" hit me
first, but I have to get my head back into some Muromachi texts for a while
to reformat my mind-set.

> Like another poster on here stated,
> 'tora no tamashii' would litteraly mean 'spirit of the tiger'.

Indeed it would; but it wouldn't be a name, either. The thing is, names
don't really literally translate well. Heck, I used to live in Stone Well
Mouth Public Field, commuting to work via Western Samurai Pond Bag and then
to Circle Center. Later I moved to There Are Turtles, and after that lived
in Big Eternal Preservation. (That is, Shakujii Koen, Seibu Ikebukuro,
Marunouchi, Kameari, and Ogikubo .)

>
> Toranokami would be pretty cool, but I don't know how well it would
> fit in 'reality' since all of the ~no kamis were always preceeded by
> the name of a province.

Ah, but that's a kami of a different color.

Tony

[Previous #786] [Next #788]

#788 [2002-04-24 19:52:04]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by Tom Helm

MS. Griffith
I am assuming you are a woman. I am no expert either but I have to say that
Mr. Bryant has looked at the name in all the ways any student of the language
would to try and make a determination. It is all too often true that without
the kanji it is impossible to make one.
If you haven't access to the kanji perhaps you know your Great Grand
Mothers family name? Could yours be Tanei Kou? In your Great grandmothers time
girls names without the appellation -ko were the norm for lower to middle
class families. In the Taisho/Showa period Tane-ko, Kinu-ko, Yuu-ko and the
like became popular. Could you be Okou san and your family name is Tanei? More
speculation from the beach.

pray for surf
Tom

[Previous #787] [Next #790]

#790 [2002-04-24 10:54:17]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by C Scamm

Wow!


>From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names
>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:13:11 -0600
>
>Taneiko Griffith wrote:
>
> > Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> > such an authority on Japanese culture that you can
> > discount any and every suggestions someone has that
> > doesn't meet w/ your approval. What Brand had to say
> > wasn't at all stupid and it is very possible that he's
> > correct.
>
>Did I say it was stupid? I said it's not a name.
>
>"Kami" means "god" or "deity" specifically, not "the spirit of something."
>So first of all, it's impossible for "Torakami" to means "spirit of the
>tiger." If anything, it would be "tiger god."
>
> > As far as my name goes, there is nothing odd
> > about it and it is very much a Japanese name that was
> > given to me by my great-grandmother who happened to be
> > Japanese, which goes to show that you're not as much
> > an authority as you seem to give yourself credit for
> > being.
>
>Then perhaps you will recall that my exact words were "Without the kanji,
>it
>would be impossible. Frankly "Taneiko" doesn't sound typically Japanese to
>me. Taneko would, but Taneiko... something seems odd."
>
>Well, here goes.
>
>Women's names using "-ko" endings are typically one kanji (haru, yuki,
>hana)
>plus the finishing "-ko." There is *no* kanji that has "tamei" as a
>reading.
>To get to "tanei" you need two kanji (or more) to produce tane+i, or
>ta+nei,
>or ta+ne+i (the last one, meaning a four kanji name, is statistically
>improbable. Therefore we're stuck with "tane+i" or "ta+nei." Since there
>few
>kanji with the reading "nei", but not often seen in names, we're
>functionally limited, then to "tane+i", which produces the question, which
>kanji combination would allow a (positive meaning) name combining the
>syllables tane+i+ko?
>
>There are a few names that are listed in my books with the reading "Taneko"
>(no "i") -- one "tane" meaning "seed/kernel" and the other meaning
>"egg/seed" or "sincerity." There is a third "tane" which pops up in names
>--
>"issue/offspring" -- but it's very unusual these days.
>
>So what we have is a very improbably Tane*i*ko, but a very probable Tane[no
>*i*]ko.
>
>Now, it's possible that whoever Romanized the name added the "i" to make
>sure people would pronounce it properly (like the errant "y" that sometimes
>pops up in Ma[y]eda and U[y]eda. These variant readings are common,
>however.
>Taneiko is not. Therefore, again, we're back to "either the name is Taneko
>and someone mis-Romanized it" or "it's not a typical Japanese name."
>
>Do you find a flaw with the argument or with the [original] conclusion?
>
>For the record, Japanese onomastics, especially historical onomastics, is a
>field I study, and I study it seriously.
>
>Before you get all huffy, perhaps you should consider that some people *do*
>know more than you do.
>
>
>
>Tony
>


_________________________________________________________________
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[Previous #788] [Next #791]

#791 [2002-04-24 00:27:57]

Re: meaning of names

by sinseism

Hello Taneiko, I think Tony can be enough called an authority on
Japanese culture.Even native Japanese including myself, few have as
much knoledge and insight as he has.And he has never called someone
stupid.The information he gave is the most valuable for you.As i
wrote in my last massage, it is fair for you to provide as much
information as possible.Especially kanji and gender are important.

Actually I also think you are "Taneko" if you are a woman.And Tony
had already written more than I intended to say in the previous
massages.

Of course I never mean to offend you.We here all are friends with
same interest.

Best regards

Shinsei




--- In samuraihistory@y..., Taneiko Griffith wrote:
> Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> such an authority on Japanese culture that you can
> discount any and every suggestions someone has that
> doesn't meet w/ your approval. What Brand had to say
> wasn't at all stupid and it is very possible that he's
> correct. As far as my name goes, there is nothing odd
> about it and it is very much a Japanese name that was
> given to me by my great-grandmother who happened to be
> Japanese, which goes to show that you're not as much
> an authority as you seem to give yourself credit for
> being.
> As for everyone else who has responded, thank you
> so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated and
> if you have any other suggestions, please don't
> hesitate to let me know what they are.
> Taneiko
> --- "Anthony J. Bryant" wrote:
> > Brand wrote:
> >
> > > thi s sugegstion might be stpid, but can't it be
> > Torakami?
> >
> > No, it can't.
> >
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/

[Previous #790] [Next #792]

#792 [2002-04-23 21:36:03]

WaSsUpP wItH tHiS iSh..

by Samantha Ponce

Enough of this Samurai ish...ya'll are going crazy...if it's really really important then e-mail but if its' stuff like this then i don't want it..I know i signed up for this but i didn't know it was gonna be info like this..AnYwAyS if ya got any questions..hit me up at sammyoneal34@... or sn sammyoneal34
iganokami <fredjnsn@...> wrote:
> Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> such an authority on Japanese culture

I'll try not to laugh, and just post this link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-
keywords=anthony%20j.%20bryant&bq=1/103-4071039-9447008

Go easy on him, Tony ;)

anyway, I'm sure he didn't mean offense - - My wife, who is Japanese
(from Japan, not JA) has never heard the name either, so I think it is
an honest mistake - it must be a rare name, or one that has fallen
out of use - or even a local variation on another, more 'typical'
name. As for 'Torakami' - it isn't a word, and if the two characters
were seen together they would be read something like 'kojin' -
although I doubt that's a word. Like another poster on here stated,
'tora no tamashii' would litteraly mean 'spirit of the tiger'.
Toranokami would be pretty cool, but I don't know how well it would
fit in 'reality' since all of the ~no kamis were always preceeded by
the name of a province.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Previous #791] [Next #793]

#793 [2002-04-24 22:10:05]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

C Scamm wrote:

> Wow!

Is that a good wow or a bad wow?

Tony

[Previous #792] [Next #795]

#795 [2002-04-24 22:14:13]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

sinseism wrote:

> Hello Taneiko, I think Tony can be enough called an authority on
> Japanese culture.Even native Japanese including myself, few have as
> much knoledge and insight as he has.And he has never called someone
> stupid.The information he gave is the most valuable for you.As i
> wrote in my last massage, it is fair for you to provide as much
> information as possible.Especially kanji and gender are important.
>
> Actually I also think you are "Taneko" if you are a woman.And Tony
> had already written more than I intended to say in the previous
> massages.
>
> Of course I never mean to offend you.We here all are friends with
> same interest.

Shinsei-dono,

katajikenai!!



Tony

[Previous #793] [Next #797]

#797 [2002-04-25 04:06:42]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by Barry Thomas

It's a bow wow...

(As in "take a bow"!!).

Couldn't help myself!! A MOST fascinating thread. Thank you all for the
insights - but, I look forward to a reply from Kaneiko/Kaneko to wrap this up
and in particular responding to Tom Helm's helpful suggestions about family
history.

Barry Thomas
(Melbourne, Australia)

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony J. Bryant <ajbryant@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names


C Scamm wrote:

> Wow!

Is that a good wow or a bad wow?

Tony

[Previous #795] [Next #799]

#799 [2002-04-25 00:49:43]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by brandonlist

hum,

thanks to the person telling i might not be stupid ;)
actually i didn't want to start a fight or anything. The "kami" proposition was because spirit and god in french are two words with very similar meaning in french, and i thought i mitght be the same in your language. As i don't master it, i just wanted to be sure that what i would say might be taken as truth without double checking :)

Sorry for all this :)

Brand.

----- Original Message -----
From: C Scamm
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names



Wow!


>From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names
>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:13:11 -0600
>
>Taneiko Griffith wrote:
>
> > Mr. Bryant, I'm trying to understand what makes you
> > such an authority on Japanese culture that you can
> > discount any and every suggestions someone has that
> > doesn't meet w/ your approval. What Brand had to say
> > wasn't at all stupid and it is very possible that he's
> > correct.
>
>Did I say it was stupid? I said it's not a name.
>
>"Kami" means "god" or "deity" specifically, not "the spirit of something."
>So first of all, it's impossible for "Torakami" to means "spirit of the
>tiger." If anything, it would be "tiger god."
>
> > As far as my name goes, there is nothing odd
> > about it and it is very much a Japanese name that was
> > given to me by my great-grandmother who happened to be
> > Japanese, which goes to show that you're not as much
> > an authority as you seem to give yourself credit for
> > being.
>
>Then perhaps you will recall that my exact words were "Without the kanji,
>it
>would be impossible. Frankly "Taneiko" doesn't sound typically Japanese to
>me. Taneko would, but Taneiko... something seems odd."
>
>Well, here goes.
>
>Women's names using "-ko" endings are typically one kanji (haru, yuki,
>hana)
>plus the finishing "-ko." There is *no* kanji that has "tamei" as a
>reading.
>To get to "tanei" you need two kanji (or more) to produce tane+i, or
>ta+nei,
>or ta+ne+i (the last one, meaning a four kanji name, is statistically
>improbable. Therefore we're stuck with "tane+i" or "ta+nei." Since there
>few
>kanji with the reading "nei", but not often seen in names, we're
>functionally limited, then to "tane+i", which produces the question, which
>kanji combination would allow a (positive meaning) name combining the
>syllables tane+i+ko?
>
>There are a few names that are listed in my books with the reading "Taneko"
>(no "i") -- one "tane" meaning "seed/kernel" and the other meaning
>"egg/seed" or "sincerity." There is a third "tane" which pops up in names
>--
>"issue/offspring" -- but it's very unusual these days.
>
>So what we have is a very improbably Tane*i*ko, but a very probable Tane[no
>*i*]ko.
>
>Now, it's possible that whoever Romanized the name added the "i" to make
>sure people would pronounce it properly (like the errant "y" that sometimes
>pops up in Ma[y]eda and U[y]eda. These variant readings are common,
>however.
>Taneiko is not. Therefore, again, we're back to "either the name is Taneko
>and someone mis-Romanized it" or "it's not a typical Japanese name."
>
>Do you find a flaw with the argument or with the [original] conclusion?
>
>For the record, Japanese onomastics, especially historical onomastics, is a
>field I study, and I study it seriously.
>
>Before you get all huffy, perhaps you should consider that some people *do*
>know more than you do.
>
>
>
>Tony
>


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[Previous #797] [Next #801]

#801 [2002-04-26 04:28:34]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by C Scamm

It's good. You're awesome, Tony!

Chuck

>From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
>Reply-To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:10:05 -0600
>
>C Scamm wrote:
>
> > Wow!
>
>Is that a good wow or a bad wow?
>
>Tony
>




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[Previous #799] [Next #803]

#803 [2002-04-26 17:26:10]

Re: [samuraihistory] meaning of names

by sengokudaimyo

C Scamm wrote:

> It's good. You're awesome, Tony!
>

Thank you.


Tony

[Previous #801]


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