> This proyect was made by Mr. Brandon Alvarez and is"Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> based in a deep
> research and interviews with real ninja masters like
> Dr. Masaaki
> Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes...
> "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in theIt depends on the sentence. For example, "Real ninja masters in history have
> same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
> This proyect was made by Mr. Brandon Alvarez and is"Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> based in a deep
> research and interviews with real ninja masters like
> Dr. Masaaki
> Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes...
> I cannot understand as someone that supposedly isAs an Intelligence Officer, I'm trained to research,
> "Intelligence Officer" does not be able to check a
> website, to revise the information and to know if is
> spoken of someone serious or not.
>
> Who speak of straight swords or estupids running in
> black pajamas?
>
> Is really important if Hayes is in the film? Masaaki
> Hatsumi is in the film and this is sufficient for
> me. Each one is free to administer its knowledge
> as want.
> Or �it is that perhaps did You more than Hayes byNot a CLUE what you're saying here. I'm assuming that
> the Budo Taijutsu?
> In my country we have a thought: "when the words areWhat country are you from? I assume that research
> not better than the silence, is better to silence".
> I recommend you see the film and train dogs, notThanks for the pseudo-zen, that really makes me feel
> martial arts. Not with a heart closed.
> "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in theSure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to" flag. :)
> same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:I'll admit, I've got a bit of a problem with "Real
>
> > "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> > same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE
> else?
>
> It depends on the sentence. For example, "Real ninja
> masters in history have
> nothing to do with the like of Stephen K. Hayes" is
> a perfectly good sentence. :)
>
> Tony
> I am curious as to how you came by the informationWould "logic" fit what you are looking for? Have you
> which led you to believe
> that Stephen Hayes is a fraud.
> is the specific Hollywood1. Straight "Ninja-to". Didn't exist. He is, as far as
> misinformation you attribute to Mr. Hayes.
> reading your postConnection with Hayes? Both Hatsumi and Hayes may very
> correctly, you seem to indicate that Masaaki Hatsumi
> is a fraud. Could you
> also present your basis for this as well?
> Mr. Hayes or Mr. HatsumiAnyone who believes their versions of history, for
> drefrauded and how?
> books. What specific historyAnything not connected with "Martial Arts Weekly"
> books do you feel we should be reading so that "this
> crap wouldn't keep
> coming back" and while we are at it, to what
> specific "crap" are you
> referring?
> have reseached Mr. HayesYou mean, other than a functioning brain and a working
> and Mr. Hayes. What methodolgy did you use for this
> reseach? How much time
> was put into it? What qualifications do you
> personally hold to make a valid
> assesment whether or not the activities of Mr. Hayes
> or Mr. Hatsumi are
> fraudlent?
> whom are you an*I* didn't bring it up. Helly did. I simply responded
> intellegence officer?
> This proyect was made by Mr. Brandon Alvarez and is"Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> based in a deep
> research and interviews with real ninja masters like
> Dr. Masaaki
> Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes...
> This proyect was made by Mr. Brandon Alvarez and is"Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> based in a deep
> research and interviews with real ninja masters like
> Dr. Masaaki
> Hatsumi, Stephen K. Hayes...
> "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in theSure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to"
> same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
> HIAnd if you'll read my reply, it was to Helly, not to
>
> if you read what we said then you would not have
> posted your critism.
>
> I did state that this was not anything like the
> hollywood version of ninja
>
> Paul
> break it down: Hayes = fraud. Hatsumi taught HayesHayes a fraud. I agree with you, I just watched his
> everything he knows. That makes Hatsumi a.....?
>Very insulting. Helly is a martial artist who so
> > Or �it is that perhaps did You more than Hayes by
> > the Budo Taijutsu?
> > > I recommend you see the film and train dogs, not
> > martial arts. Not with a heart closed.
>__________________________________
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I willYou've got to understand that the mere mention of Hayes in a samurai
> slam it as much as I can.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crapI would *love* to make a documentary that pointed out the myths behind
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can all
> insult it
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nate Ledbetter" <ltdomer98@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
>
> --- Helly Angel <ahelly69@...> wrote:
> > I cannot understand as someone that supposedly is
> > "Intelligence Officer" does not be able to check a
> > website, to revise the information and to know if
is
> > spoken of someone serious or not.
> >
> > Who speak of straight swords or estupids running
in
> > black pajamas?
> >
> > Is really important if Hayes is in the film?
Masaaki
> > Hatsumi is in the film and this is sufficient for
> > me. Each one is free to administer its knowledge
> > as want.
>
> As an Intelligence Officer, I'm trained to research,
> evaluate, analyze, and recommend. The first decision
> to make is "Is this worth my time?" Anyone in
academia
> will tell you that if you want to judge the quality
of
> someone's research, check out their sources. Hayes
is
> hardly a "source" of anything but Hollywood
> misinformation. If this documentary is going to use
> him as a source, then there's no reason for me to
> waste my time clicking on the link, much less
watching
> the dang thing. And last I checked, Hayes learned
from
> Hatsumi. Ergo (That means "therefore"), I don't see
> much reason to be excited about him, either. Let me
> break it down: Hayes = fraud. Hatsumi taught Hayes
> everything he knows. That makes Hatsumi a.....?
>
> Criminy, if people would put down the martial arts
> magazines and pick up a history book, this crap
> wouldn't keep coming back.
>
> > Or �it is that perhaps did You more than Hayes by
> > the Budo Taijutsu?
>
> Not a CLUE what you're saying here. I'm assuming
that
> English isn't your first language.
>
> > In my country we have a thought: "when the words
are
> > not better than the silence, is better to
silence".
>
> What country are you from? I assume that research
> standards there aren't up to par with what you'd
> expect from REAL historical research, and not
> Hollywood or martial arts fantasy, in the US or
Japan.
>
>
> > I recommend you see the film and train dogs, not
> > martial arts. Not with a heart closed.
>
> Thanks for the pseudo-zen, that really makes me feel
> shamed into reading my fortune cookies next time. Go
> ahead, believe the hype--enjoy your "ninjutsu". As I
> said before, I'll stick to Owl's Castle.
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and
more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
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> Samurai Archives store:
http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
---
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> HISince when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as I
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crapIf you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
> I am curious as to how you came by the informationWould "logic" fit what you are looking for? Have you
> which led you to believe
> that Stephen Hayes is a fraud.
> is the specific Hollywood1. Straight "Ninja-to". Didn't exist. He is, as far as
> misinformation you attribute to Mr. Hayes.
> reading your postConnection with Hayes? Both Hatsumi and Hayes may very
> correctly, you seem to indicate that Masaaki Hatsumi
> is a fraud. Could you
> also present your basis for this as well?
> Mr. Hayes or Mr. HatsumiAnyone who believes their versions of history, for
> drefrauded and how?
> books. What specific historyAnything not connected with "Martial Arts Weekly"
> books do you feel we should be reading so that "this
> crap wouldn't keep
> coming back" and while we are at it, to what
> specific "crap" are you
> referring?
> have reseached Mr. HayesYou mean, other than a functioning brain and a working
> and Mr. Hayes. What methodolgy did you use for this
> reseach? How much time
> was put into it? What qualifications do you
> personally hold to make a valid
> assesment whether or not the activities of Mr. Hayes
> or Mr. Hatsumi are
> fraudlent?
> whom are you an*I* didn't bring it up. Helly did. I simply responded
> intellegence officer?
> HIAnd if you'll read my reply, it was to Helly, not to
>
> if you read what we said then you would not have
> posted your critism.
>
> I did state that this was not anything like the
> hollywood version of ninja
>
> Paul
> Hayes a fraud. I agree with you, I just watched hisNo, nor do I claim to know. I study history--not
> Bojustu DVD and I think he should be sued for what
> he
> says in that DVD. Lie after Lie. Lets get one thing
> straight - I know from your past quotes you know
> nothing really about The Bujinkan or Hayes or even
> Hatsumi. Hatsumi did not Teach Hayes everything he
> knows, It has been discussed openly on Bujinkan
> forums
> and its been pointed out that hayes has fabricated a
> large amount of information, he is also credited
> with
> inventing the straight sword theory.
> Just because Hayes is in it does not mean it is bad.As I've said in another reply to you, I've made 1 post
> Again if you havent seen it why attack it.
> byLearn to attribute the correct insult to the correct
> > > the Budo Taijutsu?
> > > > I recommend you see the film and train dogs,
> not
> > > martial arts. Not with a heart closed."
>
> Very insulting. Helly is a martial artist who so
> happens to be in Budo Taijutsu, so what. I suggest
> that you shut up , stop insuulting people you dont
> know, stop insulting material you have yet to see.
> As
> a moderator in this forum your behavior here is
> disgusting. In the past you have told people to stop
> such behavior and here you are - the sole cause of
> all
> insults.
> I am quite shocked at your comments and behavior,Again, learn to recognize who is typing what. Shall I
> especially as you are a moderator - not the what we
> would expect.
> HIAgain, you're doggedly defending the documentary when
>
> Nate you comment on the black Pygmas thing in here
> and
> your info is 100% correct, the film does state that
> they discouss the origin and that it is not ninjutsu
> costume.
>
> see attacking it for maybe having bad info before
> you
> have seen it.
>
> paul
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so Iwill
> slam it as much as I can.You've got to understand that the mere mention of
> My I suggest if you already think its a load ofcrap
> before its been released that you go and produceall
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> insult itI would *love* to make a documentary that pointed out
> HISince when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as I
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crapIf you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
>Yahoo! Mail
> --- Richardson Paul <umaryu@...> wrote:
> > Hayes a fraud. I agree with you, I just watched
> his
> > Bojustu DVD and I think he should be sued for what
> > he
> > says in that DVD. Lie after Lie. Lets get one
> thing
> > straight - I know from your past quotes you know
> > nothing really about The Bujinkan or Hayes or even
> > Hatsumi. Hatsumi did not Teach Hayes everything he
> > knows, It has been discussed openly on Bujinkan
> > forums
> > and its been pointed out that hayes has fabricated
> a
> > large amount of information, he is also credited
> > with
> > inventing the straight sword theory.
>
> No, nor do I claim to know. I study history--not
> martial arts.
>
> > Just because Hayes is in it does not mean it is
> bad.
> > Again if you havent seen it why attack it.
>
> As I've said in another reply to you, I've made 1
> post
> regarding the documentary. I've REPLIED to many
> posts
> now with comments about Hayes.
>
> "> > > Or �it is that perhaps did You more than
> Hayes
> > by
> > > > the Budo Taijutsu?
> > > > > I recommend you see the film and train dogs,
> > not
> > > > martial arts. Not with a heart closed."
> >
> > Very insulting. Helly is a martial artist who so
> > happens to be in Budo Taijutsu, so what. I suggest
> > that you shut up , stop insuulting people you dont
> > know, stop insulting material you have yet to see.
> > As
> > a moderator in this forum your behavior here is
> > disgusting. In the past you have told people to
> stop
> > such behavior and here you are - the sole cause of
> > all
> > insults.
>
> Learn to attribute the correct insult to the correct
> person, my friend. Helly said what you quoted above
> to
> ME, not the other way around. I quoted it in
> response
> to him to ask him what he was talking about. The
> only
> thing I've said insulting to Helly, possibly, is
> questioning his grasp of the English language--and
> since he's a native of another country, it's not
> meant
> to be insulting. I simply had no idea what he said
> in
> a certain passage.
>
> > I am quite shocked at your comments and behavior,
> > especially as you are a moderator - not the what
> we
> > would expect.
>
> Again, learn to recognize who is typing what. Shall
> I
> repost Helly's reply to me for you? Here you go:
>
> "Or �it is that perhaps did You more than Hayes by
> the
> Budo Taijutsu? I recommend you see the film and
> train
> dogs, not martial arts. Not with a heart closed."
>
> I'm still not sure I understand what the heck he's
> talking about, at least in the first sentence. If
> you're both members of the Budo Taijutsu, then
> please
> set your fellow martial artist straight about Hayes,
> for one. Secondly, you can pass on to him that both
> of
> my dogs are trained, though not in martial arts.
> Sit,
> down, stay...these they can do.
>
> NOW, if there is any further issue with the above
> quote, then please direct it to me offline.
>
>
>
> Discover Yahoo!
> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and
> more. Check it out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> samuraihistory-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
> HIAgain, you're doggedly defending the documentary when
>
> Nate you comment on the black Pygmas thing in here
> and
> your info is 100% correct, the film does state that
> they discouss the origin and that it is not ninjutsu
> costume.
>
> see attacking it for maybe having bad info before
> you
> have seen it.
>
> paul
> HISince when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as I
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crapIf you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
> againAnd again, you're missing the point, sadly. My
>
> if this is not a public mail list then emails must
> be
> sent privately to you.
>
> if someone posts something on a public forum/mail
> list
> then I assuemed we are all able to comment.
>
> I am defending it because i have seen it and ou
> havent.
> HISince when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as I
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crapIf you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
> you seem to have a fixation with attacking Hayes.He's not the only one. I, personally, have a great fixation with attacking
> I have in my video collection many documantaries onNo. But the problem is, it's the bad apple theory. One bad apple spoils a whole
> Ninja some conatining personalities such as Karl
> Friday, Iam Bottomley. now thes eguys are respected
> historians, however the documentaries are in some
> cases full of additional crap, do we now ignore and
> attack the rest of the commentry just because of say
> one small section of the film.
> Until you have seen it you havent a lcue what yourIf I hear someone has made a documentary about Auschwitz and a key publicized
> talking about. I also think that when you have seen it
> you will be so wound up by what I have said that you
> will still hate it.
> HIAnd if you'll read my reply, it was to Helly, not to
>
> if you read what we said then you would not have
> posted your critism.
>
> I did state that this was not anything like the
> hollywood version of ninja
>
> Paul
>martial arts
> now, my question is:
> this Hayes, is an archeologist or a historian or a student of
> who is genuinely interested in ninjas and published freely his ownresults
> on internet making sure he makes unassuming statements on ninjas in again
> genuine search for the truth? or he put on the market products to
> money, thus having to bend his work to the publishers will?.The latter. Most likely he also wants ninja students, so he invents
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:To which Richardson Paul replied:
>
> > "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> > same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
>
> Sure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to"
> flag. :)
> I love this attitude.I think you're jumping to conclusions. My comment was directed at the
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richardson Paul" <umaryu@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
> Hi
>
> I iwll stick hp for Nate here (even though I have just
> had a go at him)
>
> Hayes ghost worte the 'History and traditions' book,
> hatsumi sensei did not.
>
> That book is littered with serious inaccuracies,
> including the straight sword theory.
>
> Hayes has also tried to introduce Daoist. and tibetan
> material into his version of the Bujinkan then tried
> indirectly to claim its ninjutsu
>
> He is also currently issuing menkyo in various ryuha
> attributed to the Bujinkan, he does not have menkyo
> kaiden in these ryu and he does not have permission to
> do so.
>
> Now I would say in any man book this is not only fraud
> but also deception.
>
> paul
>
>
>
> --- Oniyama <oniyama@...> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
> I am curious as to how you came by the information
> which led you to believe
> that Stephen Hayes is a fraud. Could you please
> provide this specific
> information? I am particularly interested in what is
> the specific Hollywood
> misinformation you attribute to Mr. Hayes. If I am
> reading your post
> correctly, you seem to indicate that Masaaki Hatsumi
> is a fraud. Could you
> also present your basis for this as well? Who has Mr.
> Hayes or Mr. Hatsumi
> drefrauded and how? You also mentioned history books.
> What specific history
> books do you feel we should be reading so that "this
> crap wouldn't keep
> coming back" and while we are at it, to what specific
> "crap" are you
> referring? Your post gives the impression that you
> have reseached Mr. Hayes
> and Mr. Hayes. What methodolgy did you use for this
> reseach? How much time
> was put into it? What qualifications do you
> personally hold to make a valid
> assesment whether or not the activities of Mr. Hayes
> or Mr. Hatsumi are
> fraudlent? Lastly, since you brought it up, for whom
> are you an
> intellegence officer?
>
> Take care,
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nate Ledbetter" <ltdomer98@...>
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
>
>
> >
> > --- Helly Angel <ahelly69@...> wrote:
> > > I cannot understand as someone that supposedly is
> > > "Intelligence Officer" does not be able to check a
> > > website, to revise the information and to know if
> is
> > > spoken of someone serious or not.
> > >
> > > Who speak of straight swords or estupids running
> in
> > > black pajamas?
> > >
> > > Is really important if Hayes is in the film?
> Masaaki
> > > Hatsumi is in the film and this is sufficient for
> > > me. Each one is free to administer its knowledge
> > > as want.
> >
> > As an Intelligence Officer, I'm trained to research,
> > evaluate, analyze, and recommend. The first decision
> > to make is "Is this worth my time?" Anyone in
> academia
> > will tell you that if you want to judge the quality
> of
> > someone's research, check out their sources. Hayes
> is
> > hardly a "source" of anything but Hollywood
> > misinformation. If this documentary is going to use
> > him as a source, then there's no reason for me to
> > waste my time clicking on the link, much less
> watching
> > the dang thing. And last I checked, Hayes learned
> from
> > Hatsumi. Ergo (That means "therefore"), I don't see
> > much reason to be excited about him, either. Let me
> > break it down: Hayes = fraud. Hatsumi taught Hayes
> > everything he knows. That makes Hatsumi a.....?
> >
> > Criminy, if people would put down the martial arts
> > magazines and pick up a history book, this crap
> > wouldn't keep coming back.
> >
> > > Or ¿it is that perhaps did You more than Hayes by
> > > the Budo Taijutsu?
> >
> > Not a CLUE what you're saying here. I'm assuming
> that
> > English isn't your first language.
> >
> > > In my country we have a thought: "when the words
> are
> > > not better than the silence, is better to
> silence".
> >
> > What country are you from? I assume that research
> > standards there aren't up to par with what you'd
> > expect from REAL historical research, and not
> > Hollywood or martial arts fantasy, in the US or
> Japan.
> >
> >
> > > I recommend you see the film and train dogs, not
> > > martial arts. Not with a heart closed.
> >
> > Thanks for the pseudo-zen, that really makes me feel
> > shamed into reading my fortune cookies next time. Go
> > ahead, believe the hype--enjoy your "ninjutsu". As I
> > said before, I'll stick to Owl's Castle.
> >
> >
> >
> > Discover Yahoo!
> > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and
> more. Check it out!
> > http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> > http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > Samurai Archives store:
> http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> > ---
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store:
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> ---
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
> Hello all,started
>
> Thanks for your reponses. I appreciate the clarifications. I
> training in the Bujinkan in the early/mid 80's. I have noillusions about
> Stephen Hayes. While I would certainly agree that he had his ownStates in a
> interpretation of Ninjutsu, he did bring the art to the United
> big way. So let's give him some credit. One can certainly seehim going
> his own direction in "Ninja Realms of Power". While I stop shortof calling
> him a fraud, I do think it wise that any information from him becross
> checked. I had a long gap in trianing and came back a few yearsago. When
> I did, I found that there were many holes in my knowledge and manypeices of
> infomrtion I found to be incorrect. Some of that, I suppose couldbe
> attributed to Hayes. However, I think that at the time a goodportion of it
> was that we just plain do not live in Japan and get impressions(not just
> from Hayes) and 2nd and 3rd hand information.There is nothing wrong with being an excellent martial artist and a
> HIAgain, you're doggedly defending the documentary when
>
> Nate you comment on the black Pygmas thing in here
> and
> your info is 100% correct, the film does state that
> they discouss the origin and that it is not ninjutsu
> costume.
>
> see attacking it for maybe having bad info before
> you
> have seen it.
>
> paul
> Until you have seen it you havent a lcue what yourIf I hear someone has made a documentary about Auschwitz and a key publicized
> talking about. I also think that when you have seen it
> you will be so wound up by what I have said that you
> will still hate it.
> most definatelyFunny, I seem to remember saying that he may well be a
> not only not a historian, but he invents fiction to
> suit his needs.
> I think the issue over the past 24 hours might be
> that people were
> offended that Hayes was insulted. Well, like I said,
> he might very
> well be an excellent martial artist and instructor,
> but as far as
> scholarship goes, he is a fiction writer at best.
> "Iｴm a IO!... Iｴm IO!!!" the samething."
> Iｴm from Venezuela, not USA.forist
>
> I never met Hayes and he is nothing to me. I agree
> with Paul in the reference about Hayes. The think
> that I canｴt understand is how an offensive
> like Ledbetter could be "moderator". The functionenglish.
> of the moderator is the "moderation"! he must be the
> equilibrium in the relation of several people who
> share the same interests in a forum, insｴt?
>
> And by the way Iｴm not guilty for not speak
> Is the spanish a easy idiom to you?ninja...
> In the Bujinkan the idiom is not really important
> (Thankｴs God!)
>
> Really which is the problem with the black pijamas?
> ( I dislike guys in black pijamas) is because they
> are for the world running and saying "Iｴm a
> Iｴm a ninja!" is for that?thing.
>
> This is like the guy who run for the world saying
> "Iｴm a IO!... Iｴm IO!!!" the same
>your country
> Iｴm donｴt know how are the things in
> but in my country if you say "Iｴm a IO" theAm駻ica
> consecuences coul be bad... here the situation is
> real.
>
>
> Helly Angel.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> escribi・
>
> --- Richardson Paul <umaryu@...> wrote:
> > HI
> >
> > if you read what we said then you would not have
> > posted your critism.
> >
> > I did state that this was not anything like the
> > hollywood version of ninja
> >
> > Paul
>
> And if you'll read my reply, it was to Helly, not to
> you--and was posted before yours was, so I couldn't
> have read yours, now could I?
>
> However, any connection with Hayes certainly
> SUGGESTS
> that the research is questionable, at best. I don't
> know Helly--and I've seen too many ninja fanatics
> here
> to accept his say-so that this is legit. Forgive me,
> but with a connection to Hayes it's guilty until
> proven innocent. I didn't reply to you in the same
> manner, as you've been around on the board, post
> intelligently, and don't strike me as the "wannabe"
> ninja type. If you're endorsing this, then
> fine--I'll
> fully admit there is a chance it's not crap, but
> again, any connection with Hayes makes it doubtful,
> at
> least until I see it. Too many documentaries simply
> try to capitalize on the hype (exhibit a-n: any
> documentary made during the "Last Samurai" hype)
> without doing any real research.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been
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>
>
> I am currently wondering, every time I see a ninja topic I see aflood of
> messages coming up.. I joked once (and my joke was taken kinda bad..it was
> just a little historical reference no pun intended..) anyway... I'dlike to
> know, why so much interest in ninjas?Teenaged martial artists want to be them. Unfortunately,
>
> "This is all getting, well, stupid. Hayes is conclusively a provenserious
> hack, and I question anything that uses him as a source, as should
> anyone with any respect for Japanese history. In fact, there is no
> excuse for it. Let's all stop the petty griping, and accept that
> although the Ninja Documentary might be acceptable, it takes a
> hit in the credibility department due to the involvement of Hayes."Please don't feed the animals...
>
>
> Darn...and here I was hoping a dancing sword would find its way into
> the conversation...
----- Original Message -----
From: Richardson Paul
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
www.shinobiwinds.com
not sure how it will be distributed as I am not
involved in it
Paul
--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Paul,
Speaking of witch, how can the film be viewed? I mean
is it being released
in theaters, DVD, what?
Mike
-------Original Message-------
From: Richardson Paul
Date: 05/09/05 02:51:01
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
HI
I do not have anything to lose if this documentary
does turn out ot be crap and loses every penny
invested in it.
My point is that you just attacked it for no reason
when you have not seen it.
if you can find one single accurate documentary that
is genuine that was produced in Japana nd you can find
the owners of the film, I think i can get some one to
translate and narrate it. It is possible I can also
find someone to fund it
however until someone who knows better (maybe yourself
Nate) then we have to make do with a little better
each time. So far the only nina documentaries I have
seen are on things ike dicovery and I could have
choked at the crap they spouted.
Paul
--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- Richardson Paul <umaryu@...> wrote:
> HI
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I will
> slam it as much as I can.
Since when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as I
can"? I'll slam Hayes all day--I've, to date, made 1
comment about the documentary. Did you produce this?
You're certainly defending it like you've got a vested
interest. Perhaps Hayes has finally taken Japanese
history 101 and knows something now--but I'm
skeptical.
If the documentary isn't built around him, than
lovely--hopefully it has some useful information.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of crap
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
If you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
project, and pay the production costs, I'd be more
than happy to. Of course, it'd be cheaper to just
translate a Japanese documentary. Of course, then
you'd take issue with my translation, I'm sure.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richardson Paul
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
www.shinobiwinds.com
not sure how it will be distributed as I am not
involved in it
Paul
--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...>
wrote:
---------------------------------
Paul,
Speaking of witch, how can the film be viewed? I
mean
is it being released
in theaters, DVD, what?
Mike
-------Original Message-------
From: Richardson Paul
Date: 05/09/05 02:51:01
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] New Ninja documentary
HI
I do not have anything to lose if this documentary
does turn out ot be crap and loses every penny
invested in it.
My point is that you just attacked it for no reason
when you have not seen it.
if you can find one single accurate documentary that
is genuine that was produced in Japana nd you can
find
the owners of the film, I think i can get some one
to
translate and narrate it. It is possible I can also
find someone to fund it
however until someone who knows better (maybe
yourself
Nate) then we have to make do with a little better
each time. So far the only nina documentaries I have
seen are on things ike dicovery and I could have
choked at the crap they spouted.
Paul
--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- Richardson Paul <umaryu@...> wrote:
> HI
>
> I love this attitude.
>
> I havent seen it, I know nothing about it, so I
will
> slam it as much as I can.
Since when has skepticism meant "slam it as much as
I
can"? I'll slam Hayes all day--I've, to date, made 1
comment about the documentary. Did you produce this?
You're certainly defending it like you've got a
vested
interest. Perhaps Hayes has finally taken Japanese
history 101 and knows something now--but I'm
skeptical.
If the documentary isn't built around him, than
lovely--hopefully it has some useful information.
> My I suggest if you already think its a load of
crap
> before its been released that you go and produce
> something better.
>
> i await your future project on the ninja so we can
> all
> insult it
If you're willing to pay me to quit my job, fund the
project, and pay the production costs, I'd be more
than happy to. Of course, it'd be cheaper to just
translate a Japanese documentary. Of course, then
you'd take issue with my translation, I'm sure.
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> Nate Ledbetter wrote:Ditto!
>
> > "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> > same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
>
> Sure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to" flag. :)
> Here is an example of that type of attitude.You really are missing the point. I *would* expect people to have doubts about
>
> Lets make one on armour, lets have Anthony Bryant who
> in my opinion is possibly the most knwoedgeable person
> we could talk to in the west on the history and
> production of Katchu. I bet you would all love this. I
> think it would be a great idea myself, then lets get
> hayes or Harunaka Hoshino in there wearing armour
> showing what it looks like when worn by a man.
>
> Now by some peoples attitudes it has to be crap
> without a doubt, purely because one person is int here
> we dont like.
>
>Teenaged martial artists want to be them. Unfortunately,yes, I kind of know teenage martial artists wants to be ninja, when I was a
>metaphoricaly speaking, the Ninja spread misinformation about Japanese
>history.
> Phil wrote:
> > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > > "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> > > same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
> >
> > Sure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to" flag. :)
>
> Ditto!
>
> Dean Wayland
> Head Of The Fight School
> http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
>Tony, I hate to say it, but people are going to keep
> You really are missing the point. I *would* expect
> people to have doubts about
> the quality of that video. I WOULD expect people to
> avoid it.
>
> BECAUSE ONE OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IS *SUSPECT* it
> makes the WHOLE PROJECT one
> of "no one knows how
> accurate/valuable/reliable/trustworthy it is."
> yes, I kind of know teenage martial artists wants toYes, please--then I know who to aim at :)
> be ninja, when I was a
> little girl I wanted to as well... but what I meant
> why so much interest on
> them in this list?
>
> who is a teenage martial artist who wants to be a
> ninja please raise their
> left hand.
> Phil wrote:---
> > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> > > "Real Ninja Masters" and "Stephen K. Hayes" in the
> > > same sentence doesn't raise flags with ANYONE else?
> >
> > Sure it does. It raises my "not worth replying to" flag. :)
>
> Ditto!
>
> Dean Wayland
> Head Of The Fight School
> http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
>
>
>
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> i agree.i think that discrediting someones project just because ofSorry, but no, it is not.
> the involvement of mr hayes,is straight ignorant.
>oh,by the way theOh give me a break, for if by the warrior's creed, you mean "Bushido",
> warriors creed sure is a great thing to quote :)
> John Hidalgo <oniyama@...> wrote:You know, even if Hayes isYep, but only because I do not have a clue who Manaka is, see my
> on it, so is Manaka. Are you going to
> discount Manaka as well as Hayes.
> I have an idea. How about watching the video when it comes out (orHello people, TV companies exist to make money, not to make historically
> at least get some reviews from a few people who have seen it)
> before
> outright dismissing it? I am sure that the people who produced
> this
> video put a lot of time, energy, money and heart into it. I am
> sure
> they did not go into that process merely to produce crap. Let's
> give it a chance.
>That is the danger of using such a questionable source - you
> My gripe was people were attacking it because Hayes
> was in it so it had to be bad. If youhavent seen it
> then you havent a clue whats in it.
>
> Hi Folks,of
>
> I just know that I'm going to regret this but...
>
> > i agree.i think that discrediting someones project just because
> > the involvement of mr hayes,is straight ignorant.Exactly. If you put something out there, be prepared to stand up to
>
> Sorry, but no, it is not.
>
> This is just how academic rigor works, that's all.
>If the producers really knew what they were doing, they would have
> This may end up being a great documentary, with Hayes
> as a minor player--fine, and good for it. However, if
> it wants viewership in the larger history community,
> and not just in the martial arts community, then
> sources like Hayes are a detriment.
>
> If the producers really knew what they were doing,K, you're HORRIBLE--no smiley or anything to indicate
> they would have
> worked with the creators of the most reliable
> website on the 'new
> about Ninja:
> http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm
>That is the danger of using such a questionable source - you
> My gripe was people were attacking it because Hayes
> was in it so it had to be bad. If youhavent seen it
> then you havent a clue whats in it.
>
>That is the danger of using such a questionable source - you
> My gripe was people were attacking it because Hayes
> was in it so it had to be bad. If youhavent seen it
> then you havent a clue whats in it.
>
>That is the danger of using such a questionable source - you
> My gripe was people were attacking it because Hayes
> was in it so it had to be bad. If youhavent seen it
> then you havent a clue whats in it.
>
> If Hayes is such a fake then Why is he part of this project.That is the question.