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Hirate Masahide's Kanshi

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#6871 [2005-03-29 12:10:40]

Hirate Masahide's Kanshi

by nahless

Does anyone know the exact reason or reasons why Hirate Masahide chose
to commit seppuku (kanshi)? What point did he want to get across?

Nahless

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#6873 [2005-03-30 10:28:50]

Re: Hirate Masahide's Kanshi

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "nahless" wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know the exact reason or reasons why Hirate Masahide
chose
> to commit seppuku (kanshi)? What point did he want to get across?
>
> Nahless

Throwing his name into Google brings up this result:

The reason for suicide is widely known as the last act to have
Nobunaga act as the respectful head of clan but there are several
conflicting stories. Some believe that he felt responsible for
Nobunaga's behavior and took responsibility with his own life,
others believe that Nobunaga had wanted the horse of Hirahide's
eldest son but Hirahide turned it down and this led to a cooling of
two men's relationship. Nobunaga still behaved oddly but built a
Buddhist temple, Seishuji(政秀Ž›) dedicated to Hirahide.

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#6874 [2005-03-30 17:17:05]

Re: [samuraihistory] Hirate Masahide's Kanshi

by ltdomer98

--- nahless <mr.ripley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know the exact reason or reasons why
> Hirate Masahide chose
> to commit seppuku (kanshi)? What point did he want
> to get across?
>
> Nahless

As Kitsuno said, the generally accepted theory is that
it was Hirate's last effort (literally) to get
Nobunaga to abandon his wayward ways. Hirate had been
like a surrogate father to Nobunaga while Nobunaga was
growing up, being in charge of his education, and
while you could interpret it as an admission of
failure and attempt to attone for the bad management
of his ward, I think it was less that and more an
attempt at a wake-up call for Nobunaga. The incident
Kitsuno mentions about the horse belonging to Hirate's
son is mentioned in Yoshikawa Eiji's novel "Taiko".
Essentially, Masahide's son (can't remember the name
at the moment) had procured a fine white horse, and
Nobunaga rather selfishly ordered Hirate to give him
the horse, as the master should have finer things than
the retainer. The novel recounts that Masahide's son
chafed at having to give up his horse, but Masahide
instructed him to do so, because his lord had so
ordered. That night Masahide committed seppuku--the
horse incident being just the final straw. The seppuku
was a final remonstration from an obedient servant
who'd simply seen his lord go too far.

Now, that's the novel version--reality, I'm not quite
sure. I don't think I've ever heard about the horse
incident anywhere else.



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#6891 [2005-03-31 22:52:49]

Re: [samuraihistory] Hirate Masahide's Kanshi

by hide050316

1549 oda nobuhide death
1552 nobunaga defeated sakai daizen.
nobunaga defeated yamaguti noritugu.
1553 hirate masahide sappuku
nobunaga had interviw with saitou douzan.
1554 oda nobutomo was killed by oda nobumitu at kiyosu-jou
1555 oda nobumitu was killed by odanobutomo's retainer

when masaihide committed to seppuku, nobunaga was in the succession battle.

i don't know exact reason.

my english is very bad and poor.sorry

----- Original Message -----
From: "nahless" <mr.ripley@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:10 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Hirate Masahide's Kanshi


>
>
>
> Does anyone know the exact reason or reasons why Hirate Masahide chose
> to commit seppuku (kanshi)? What point did he want to get across?
>
> Nahless
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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