Re: Compare & Contrast: Feudal Japan vs. 20th Century America

Hi Gillian!

As we know, it was Tokugawa Ieyasu who ordered the killing of Christians in Japan. One of his victims is a Filipino, named Lorenzo Ruiz, who travelled with Catholic priests, after escaping Spanish injustice back in the Philippines.

Lorenzo and his companions were caught doing Catholic missions in Japan. Before and during torture Ieyasu made an offer, "renounce their faith and they wil be spared". The missionaries did not accept the offer except for one who was also killed later on.

Lorenzo and his group were tortured using water poured in their mouth using a funnel while torturers put a plank of wood on their stomachs as they see-sawed on in. Needles were stuck between the fingernails and the flesh.

When no one gave up, Ieyasu ordered the missionaries to be hung upside down in separate wells. the wells' mouth was then closed as the prisoners hung. Most of the group, including Lorenzo perished after ten days. They were taken out of the well, beheaded, burned, and their ashes scattered to the sea.

Lorenzo Ruiz was beatified by Pope John Paul II in the early 1980s for being a layman in a group of priests yet did not renounce his faith.

He is now known as Saint Lorenzo Ruiz after His cannonization in Vatican by the Pope in the the early 1990s.

Tokugawa Ieyasu really enforced his laws and policies.

Gillian Rubinstein <gillian@...> wrote:

>
> If anyone was OT it was me: but I think it's an interesting subject.

Yes, Lee Kwan Yew would make a dream shogun. And surely a
philosopher king (or queen) must be the all time best job. (But so many
people seem to mess it up. )

>

Cheers,

Gillian

> Forgive me for the OT; however you mentioned Lee Kwan Yew - one

of my

> absolute idols. He has just enforced a law against obesity. (All
> overweight kids in Singapore need to exercise for 15 minutes during
> recess, and their calories intake at school is severely controlled). He
> would have been a dream Shogun (or Philosopher king).
>
> Cheers, sorry again for the OT
> cepo
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Angel Elibureau
wrote:

>
> Hi Gillian!
>
> As we know, it was Tokugawa Ieyasu who ordered the killing of

Christians in Japan. One of his victims is a Filipino, named Lorenzo
Ruiz, who travelled with Catholic priests, after escaping Spanish
injustice back in the Philippines.

>
> Lorenzo and his companions were caught doing Catholic missions in

Japan. Before and during torture Ieyasu made an offer, "renounce
their faith and they wil be spared". The missionaries did not accept
the offer except for one who was also killed later on.

>
> Lorenzo and his group were tortured using water poured in their

mouth using a funnel while torturers put a plank of wood on their
stomachs as they see-sawed on in. Needles were stuck between the
fingernails and the flesh.

>
> When no one gave up, Ieyasu ordered the missionaries to be hung

upside down in separate wells. the wells' mouth was then closed as
the prisoners hung. Most of the group, including Lorenzo perished
after ten days. They were taken out of the well, beheaded, burned,
and their ashes scattered to the sea.

>
> Lorenzo Ruiz was beatified by Pope John Paul II in the early 1980s

for being a layman in a group of priests yet did not renounce his
faith.

>
> He is now known as Saint Lorenzo Ruiz after His cannonization in

Vatican by the Pope in the the early 1990s.

>
> Tokugawa Ieyasu really enforced his laws and policies.
>

This Lorenzo Ruis was killed in about 1636, a good twenty years
AFTER Ieyasu died of old age, and as such had no involvement in the
death of Ruis.

>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Angel Elibureau
> wrote:
> >

> >
> > As we know, it was Tokugawa Ieyasu who ordered the killing of
> Christians in Japan.

Hmmmm.... I've understood that it was his son, Hidetada, who
authorized the purge. Please someone correct me if I err.

Lizzie


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> Ieyasu first authorised persecution by ordering all missionaries to

leave in 1614. Hidetada was officially shogun by now (1605-23) but
Ieyasu still dominated policy until his death in 1616 (and intended to
carry on doing so afterwards in spirit). So the executions of 1622,
came after Ieyasu's death and were authorised by Hidetada, but were a
follow-up to Ieyasu's policy and intentions. This fierce anti-Christian
policy continued under Iemitsu (1623-51), by which time most
Christians had been killed, had recanted, or gone underground in
remote villages in Kyushu.

I got the gist of this from McClain: A Modern History of Japan. McClain
says as many as 4,000 died,

If whoever started this thread is still reading: to compare and contrast
Tokugawa Ieyasu and Lee Kwan Yew would make an interesting topic!

Cheers,

Gillian

>
>
> >
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Angel Elibureau
> > wrote:
> > >
>
> > >
> > > As we know, it was Tokugawa Ieyasu who ordered the killing of
> > Christians in Japan.
>
>
> Hmmmm.... I've understood that it was his son, Hidetada, who
> authorized the purge. Please someone correct me if I err.
>
> Lizzie
>
>
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