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Samurais, swords and guns?

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#6723 [2005-02-24 22:31:45]

Samurais, swords and guns?

by lalaru55

Please, I'd like to know if it was forbidden for the samurai to use
a gun by pride?

Thank you.

[Next #6724]

#6724 [2005-02-24 22:47:55]

Re: [samuraihistory] Samurais, swords and guns?

by ltdomer98

--- La La Ru <lalaru55@...> wrote:

>
> Please, I'd like to know if it was forbidden for the
> samurai to use
> a gun by pride?
>
> Thank you.

http://www.geocities.com/klancesegall/home.htm

The answer is a resounding "no". See further
elaboration at the link above--it's misconception #1



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#6727 [2005-02-24 23:15:41]

Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by lalaru55

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
> --- La La Ru wrote:
>
> >
> > Please, I'd like to know if it was forbidden for the
> > samurai to use
> > a gun by pride?
> >
> > Thank you.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/klancesegall/home.htm
>
> The answer is a resounding "no". See further
> elaboration at the link above--it's misconception #1
>


Thank you. ^_^

[Previous #6724] [Next #6731]

#6731 [2005-02-25 10:55:35]

Re: [samuraihistory] Samurais, swords and guns?

by papill_on99

Ahhh come on even I read #misconceptions#


On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 06:31:45 -0000, La La Ru <lalaru55@...> wrote:
>
>
> Please, I'd like to know if it was forbidden for the samurai to use
> a gun by pride?
>
> Thank you.
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Previous #6727] [Next #6732]

#6732 [2005-02-25 16:08:07]

Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by lalaru55

(refference book; "What is It?" by Simon and Schuster Inc., New
York. (c) 1984)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/LaLaRu/samurai_article.jpg

Is this article false?

[Previous #6731] [Next #6735]

#6735 [2005-02-25 16:52:26]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by ltdomer98

--- La La Ru <lalaru55@...> wrote:

>
>
> (refference book; "What is It?" by Simon and
> Schuster Inc., New
> York. (c) 1984)
>
>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/LaLaRu/samurai_article.jpg
>
> Is this article false?

Yes. It's incredibly simplistic, and a product of
Western perception rather than actual research, it
appears. It also looks like it's out of a children's
book.

Nate










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#6736 [2005-02-25 21:22:02]

Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by lalaru55

Yes, Nate. It's a children's "educational" book I recieved on my
birthday, when I was a child. Simon and Schuster Inc. mostly make
children's book. I'm quite shocked how inaccurate the information
is. Thank you for clearing this up. I wish to learn, not stereotype.
That's a good philosphy.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
> >
> >
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/LaLaRu/samurai_article.jpg
> >
> > Is this article false?
>
> Yes. It's incredibly simplistic, and a product of
> Western perception rather than actual research, it
> appears. It also looks like it's out of a children's
> book.
>
> Nate
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Previous #6735] [Next #6750]

#6750 [2005-02-27 01:33:50]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by tls_phil

La La Ru wrote:

[Responding to Nate's confirmation of the inaccuratcy of an article on
the topic]

> Yes, Nate. It's a children's "educational" book I recieved on my
> birthday, when I was a child. Simon and Schuster Inc. mostly make
> children's book. I'm quite shocked how inaccurate the information
> is. Thank you for clearing this up. I wish to learn, not stereotype.
> That's a good philosphy.

Children's books are almost always simplified, sometimes to the point
of being just plain dumbed down, a process which unfortunately tends to
lead to gross overgeneralisation that turns into a distortion of the facts.

My own rule of thumb about things like this is to remain suspicious
of a given "fact" until I've seen it confirmed by at least two, and
preferably more, independent sources.

And to more fully answer your original question: I'm sure there was a
range of attitude towards guns among the samurai when they were first
introduced, and there were probably a few grognards among them who
though of guns as unworthy weapons for a true warrior. However, they
were probably a minority -- on the whole, samurai tended to be quite
pragmatic.

Phil

[Previous #6736] [Next #6755]

#6755 [2005-02-28 02:16:29]

Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by naomasa298

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Philippe
wrote:

more, independent sources.
>
> And to more fully answer your original question: I'm sure there
was a
> range of attitude towards guns among the samurai when they were
first
> introduced, and there were probably a few grognards among them who
> though of guns as unworthy weapons for a true warrior. However,
they
> were probably a minority -- on the whole, samurai tended to be
quite
> pragmatic.
>
> Phil

I wonder though if the "guns are dishounourable" attitude might not
have been perpetuated by those clans who were too poor to employ
them in any large number. IIRC, the Hojo only had some 300 guns
listed in their inventory in the mid-1580s.

[Previous #6750] [Next #6760]

#6760 [2005-02-28 13:17:21]

Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by kitsuno

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Suebsahakarn"
wrote:

> I wonder though if the "guns are dishounourable" attitude might
not
> have been perpetuated by those clans who were too poor to employ
> them in any large number. IIRC, the Hojo only had some 300 guns
> listed in their inventory in the mid-1580s.

sour grapes

n : disparagement of something that is unattainable

[Previous #6755] [Next #6763]

#6763 [2005-03-01 10:55:25]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by papill_on99

you like simple reading?! Try this:http://www.ospreypublishing.com/ ;
good books. I strongly recommend not too complicated pictures and good texts...


On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 05:22:02 -0000, La La Ru <lalaru55@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, Nate. It's a children's "educational" book I recieved on my
> birthday, when I was a child. Simon and Schuster Inc. mostly make
> children's book. I'm quite shocked how inaccurate the information
> is. Thank you for clearing this up. I wish to learn, not stereotype.
> That's a good philosphy.
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/LaLaRu/samurai_article.jpg
> > >
> > > Is this article false?
> >
> > Yes. It's incredibly simplistic, and a product of
> > Western perception rather than actual research, it
> > appears. It also looks like it's out of a children's
> > book.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Previous #6760] [Next #6766]

#6766 [2005-03-01 15:56:07]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by ltdomer98

--- tihi <tihanap@...> wrote:

>
> you like simple reading?! Try
> this:http://www.ospreypublishing.com/ ;
> good books. I strongly recommend not too
> complicated pictures and good texts...

Hmmm...I'm not sure Tony appreciates being called
"simple reading"...

LOL



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#6769 [2005-03-01 21:10:14]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

>
> --- tihi <tihanap@...> wrote:
>
>
>>you like simple reading?! Try
>>this:http://www.ospreypublishing.com/ ;
>> good books. I strongly recommend not too
>>complicated pictures and good texts...
>
>
> Hmmm...I'm not sure Tony appreciates being called
> "simple reading"...

I'm used to being called "simple."


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6766] [Next #6772]

#6772 [2005-03-02 08:58:30]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by papill_on99

I didnt mean to dissrespect anbody. I assure you my intensions were
good,also I am a great fan of Osprey publishing.


On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:10:14 -0600, Anthony Bryant
<ajbryant@...> wrote:
>
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> >
> > --- tihi <tihanap@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>you like simple reading?! Try
> >>this:http://www.ospreypublishing.com/ ;
> >> good books. I strongly recommend not too
> >>complicated pictures and good texts...
> >
> >
> > Hmmm...I'm not sure Tony appreciates being called
> > "simple reading"...
>
> I'm used to being called "simple."
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Previous #6769] [Next #6774]

#6774 [2005-03-02 15:38:39]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by ltdomer98

--- tihi <tihanap@...> wrote:

>
> I didnt mean to dissrespect anbody. I assure you my
> intensions were
> good,also I am a great fan of Osprey publishing.

No problem--it was meant as a joke. Tony's published a
few books with Osprey, so I thought I'd take a jab at
him. I've got to when I can.




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#6776 [2005-03-02 18:20:02]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> No problem--it was meant as a joke. Tony's published a
> few books with Osprey, so I thought I'd take a jab at
> him. I've got to when I can.

No. Problem. It's. Your. Job.


Tony



--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6774] [Next #6777]

#6777 [2005-03-02 17:53:20]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by ltdomer98

--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> > No problem--it was meant as a joke. Tony's
> published a
> > few books with Osprey, so I thought I'd take a jab
> at
> > him. I've got to when I can.
>
> No. Problem. It's. Your. Job.
>


Think about those files I sent you. That should
un-grit your teeth.




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#6778 [2005-03-02 19:27:20]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Samurais, swords and guns?

by sengokudaimyo

Nate Ledbetter wrote:

>>No. Problem. It's. Your. Job.
>>

>
>
> Think about those files I sent you. That should
> un-grit your teeth.

No, just a different gritting. (Sharing too much? )

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

[Previous #6777]


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