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Transitional Samurai Equipment

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#6508 [2005-01-11 16:46:24]

Transitional Samurai Equipment

by russcat9

How late into the 15thC (or beyond) would it be feasible for samurai
armies or contingents of feudal lords to still be wearing armour &
using weapons more common to the earlier Muromachi period, say
1350-1450? ie o-sode and transitional o-yoroi/haramaki, with naginata
and bow, but few or no yari etc.

And if feasible, what would be the likely reasons?

Cheers
Paul

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#6509 [2005-01-11 17:12:21]

Re: [samuraihistory] Transitional Samurai Equipment

by ltdomer98

--- russcat9 <snowcat9@...> wrote:

> How late into the 15thC (or beyond) would it be
> feasible for samurai
> armies or contingents of feudal lords to still be
> wearing armour &
> using weapons more common to the earlier Muromachi
> period, say
> 1350-1450? ie o-sode and transitional
> o-yoroi/haramaki, with naginata
> and bow, but few or no yari etc.
>
> And if feasible, what would be the likely reasons?

Most of my information comes from Bottomley and
Hopson, or from Turnbull--neither of which are in
front of me right this second. However, I think it's
perfectly feasible for samurai to be wearing older
pieces up until the end of the Sengoku. Reasons would
include a. the ability to show off possesion of an
antique armor or b. inability to buy something better.
In case a you're looking at upper level daimyo that
may not ever be in combat, so it's nice to look
pretty. In case b, he probably can't afford anything
more, so he's making due with battle spoils or cheaper
old stuff.

Make sense?




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#6511 [2005-01-11 18:22:40]

Re: Transitional Samurai Equipment

by russcat9

Hi

Yes, that makes good sense. Convenient too! What about naginata - did
they largely disappear amongst retainers and ashigaru after the Gempei
Wars, to be replaced by yari?

Cheers
Paul





--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
> --- russcat9 wrote:
>
> > How late into the 15thC (or beyond) would it be
> > feasible for samurai
> > armies or contingents of feudal lords to still be
> > wearing armour &
> > using weapons more common to the earlier Muromachi
> > period, say
> > 1350-1450? ie o-sode and transitional
> > o-yoroi/haramaki, with naginata
> > and bow, but few or no yari etc.
> >
> > And if feasible, what would be the likely reasons?
>
> Most of my information comes from Bottomley and
> Hopson, or from Turnbull--neither of which are in
> front of me right this second. However, I think it's
> perfectly feasible for samurai to be wearing older
> pieces up until the end of the Sengoku. Reasons would
> include a. the ability to show off possesion of an
> antique armor or b. inability to buy something better.
> In case a you're looking at upper level daimyo that
> may not ever be in combat, so it's nice to look
> pretty. In case b, he probably can't afford anything
> more, so he's making due with battle spoils or cheaper
> old stuff.
>
> Make sense?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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#6512 [2005-01-11 18:40:52]

Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Transitional Samurai Equipment

by ltdomer98

--- russcat9 <snowcat9@...> wrote:

> Yes, that makes good sense. Convenient too! What
> about naginata - did
> they largely disappear amongst retainers and
> ashigaru after the Gempei
> Wars, to be replaced by yari?

Not sure when the naginata was replaced--I'd have to
check with Bottomley. I'd think it was a fairly good
weapon in the street fighting of the Onin. Perhaps it
was replaced when the fighting moved out to the
provinces and took place more often on horseback?
anyone?





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#6513 [2005-01-11 19:14:58]

Re: Transitional Samurai Equipment

by russcat9

My understanding is that they were still in use during the Muromachi
era, but greatly outnumbered by yari the later the period went. I
think they also became longer.

Paul


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:
>
> --- russcat9 wrote:
>
> > Yes, that makes good sense. Convenient too! What
> > about naginata - did
> > they largely disappear amongst retainers and
> > ashigaru after the Gempei
> > Wars, to be replaced by yari?
>
> Not sure when the naginata was replaced--I'd have to
> check with Bottomley. I'd think it was a fairly good
> weapon in the street fighting of the Onin. Perhaps it
> was replaced when the fighting moved out to the
> provinces and took place more often on horseback?
> anyone?
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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