Re: Ninja Masters of America

--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

Now, if you want to start quoting Stephen
Hayes
(Explanation: I'm currently putting myself through the
agony of reading his book--and I use that term only
because it has pages and is bound--about the mystical
origins of Ninjutsu--insert appropriate oohs and ahs
here.

Years ago, when I was working in a bookstore in L.A., I knew some fellows
studying with Frank Dux as well as some studying with Stephen Hayes. As I
was certain that Dux was a fraud (a very fast, legitimately deadly fraud,
with some frighteningly effective moves, but still nothing like the adopted
son of an Old Ninja Family that he pretended to be), I called up Hayes at
his studio and asked him something about research. I was thinking about
getting the store to stock some of his books. I have rarely made anyone so
nervous in a first conversation. It set off my internal alarms, and I never
did order the books.
Gereg
P.S. Ooh. Ah. (Almost forgot that.)

HI

the Dux movie where he claims to have ocme form a
ninja family fought the ultimate contest has since
been proven fake. He even had a well publicised court
case between himself and Van Damm which he lost. Even
Dux military past has been proven fake.

Hayes, well reading his books, and oing my own
research it has to say somehting if Hayes and my self
are in the same org as each other and I wont train
with him.

paul



--- Silk Road School <silk.road.school@...>
wrote:


---------------------------------

--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

Now, if you want to start quoting Stephen
Hayes
(Explanation: I'm currently putting myself through the
agony of reading his book--and I use that term only
because it has pages and is bound--about the mystical
origins of Ninjutsu--insert appropriate oohs and ahs
here.

Years ago, when I was working in a bookstore in L.A.,
I knew some fellows
studying with Frank Dux as well as some studying with
Stephen Hayes. As I
was certain that Dux was a fraud (a very fast,
legitimately deadly fraud,
with some frighteningly effective moves, but still
nothing like the adopted
son of an Old Ninja Family that he pretended to be), I
called up Hayes at
his studio and asked him something about research. I
was thinking about
getting the store to stock some of his books. I have
rarely made anyone so
nervous in a first conversation. It set off my
internal alarms, and I never
did order the books.
Gereg
P.S. Ooh. Ah. (Almost forgot that.)








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Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition and an excuse for
incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I will hear nothing more on
the matter.

If I may, I would like to add my two cents here. With all due
respect, this is a topic that should not get started. it will be a
see-saw battle and no one will win. somebody has something different
to say on who is right and who is wrong. I have seen stories on
every Ninjutsu instructor out there from Frank Dux to Shoto
Tanamura, to Hatsumi Sensei himself. so wheather you are Dux-Ryu,
Genbukan, Bujinkan, Toshindo, Koga ryu, or even *sigh* Ashida Kim
lets keep the political bickering out of this one and just focus on
the true ninja history, please?

Mike





--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Richardson Paul
wrote:

> HI
>
> the Dux movie where he claims to have ocme form a
> ninja family fought the ultimate contest has since
> been proven fake. He even had a well publicised court
> case between himself and Van Damm which he lost. Even
> Dux military past has been proven fake.
>
> Hayes, well reading his books, and oing my own
> research it has to say somehting if Hayes and my self
> are in the same org as each other and I wont train
> with him.
>
> paul
>
>
>
> --- Silk Road School
> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> --- Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> Now, if you want to start quoting Stephen
> Hayes
> (Explanation: I'm currently putting myself through the
> agony of reading his book--and I use that term only
> because it has pages and is bound--about the mystical
> origins of Ninjutsu--insert appropriate oohs and ahs
> here.
>
> Years ago, when I was working in a bookstore in L.A.,
> I knew some fellows
> studying with Frank Dux as well as some studying with
> Stephen Hayes. As I
> was certain that Dux was a fraud (a very fast,
> legitimately deadly fraud,
> with some frighteningly effective moves, but still
> nothing like the adopted
> son of an Old Ninja Family that he pretended to be), I
> called up Hayes at
> his studio and asked him something about research. I
> was thinking about
> getting the store to stock some of his books. I have
> rarely made anyone so
> nervous in a first conversation. It set off my
> internal alarms, and I never
> did order the books.
> Gereg
> P.S. Ooh. Ah. (Almost forgot that.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:

>
> Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition and
> an excuse for
> incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I
> will hear nothing more on
> the matter.

Staff? Staff of what? I just wish to dispel any
thoughts people may have of you being staff on this
email list. Your declaration that you "will hear
nothing more on the matter" indicates you'll stop
taking emails in case people write about it?

This isn't necessarily off-topic, though as noted if
people study history then people like Hayes and
Hatsumi are irrelevant at best, kooks at worst. So the
discussion will continue if people wish to continue
it, Ms. Antenucci's opinion notwithstanding. I
recommend you put a block on the word 'ninja' in your
email software--I would, but it would seriously
inhibit my abilities to moderate.

The asst. management



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Hi , and hello and merry christmas to you all!!! .I was wondering today that when christianity was introduced to japan did any daimyo/ or current shogun send any envoys to the pope.Im sure that there is some vague record of japanese retainers attending the vatican , so does anybody know anything similiar. Also im curious when the first samurai sword was brought to europe and how it was recieved. Merry christmas all , as ever i enjoy all your help and suggestions. p.s You all should read ashida kims website, i laughed so much ( buy a balaclava and you too could be a mystic ninja !!!) james



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--- james wallis <kentguy212002@...> wrote:

>
> Hi , and hello and merry christmas to you all!!! .I
> was wondering today that when christianity was
> introduced to japan did any daimyo/ or current
> shogun send any envoys to the pope.Im sure that
> there is some vague record of japanese retainers
> attending the vatican , so does anybody know
> anything similiar.

Several noble youths from Kyushu families were sent in
the 1580's. They went to Portugal, Spain, and Italy,
and were received by the Pope. I'm sure if you did a
google search you could find most of the details.
Sansom covers it in his volume 2, and there are
several other sources out there. And interesting read
would be "The Samurai" by Endo Shusaku--fictional
account of a samurai journeying to Europe.



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Date Masamune sent a mission to Rome via the Americas and Spain in
1614.

Hasekura Tsunenaga was the senior Japanese official, but whilst away
Ieyasu turned against the Christians, word of which reached Rome,
and the mission returned having achieved nothing some 4 years later.

The Franciscan monk Fr Luis Sotelo, who organised the mission, had in
mind a crusade to convert Japan, and thus realise his own ambition of
becoming the Primate of that country.

Thomas

HI

looks like some one didnt get much sleep last night
and got out of the wrong side of the bed.

LOL

paul
ex - wannabe ninja

--- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:


---------------------------------

Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition and
an excuse for
incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I will
hear nothing more on
the matter.






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--- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:

>
>
> Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition and
> an excuse for
> incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I
> will hear nothing more on
> the matter.

Don't be silly, because your ignorant of the facts
doesn't mean its not so. You need to read a lot more
that how you'll learn

>
>
>
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--- Trevor Singh <trevor_singh@...> wrote:

> --- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition
> and
> > an excuse for
> > incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I
> > will hear nothing more on
> > the matter.
>
>
> Don't be silly, because your ignorant of the facts
> doesn't mean its not so. You need to read a lot more
> that how you'll learn

Trevor--

The post you quoted was being sarcastic.



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--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

>
> --- Trevor Singh <trevor_singh@...> wrote:
> > --- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition
> > and
> > > an excuse for
> > > incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and
> I
> > > will hear nothing more on
> > > the matter.
> >
> >
> > Don't be silly, because your ignorant of the facts
> > doesn't mean its not so. You need to read a lot
> more
> > that how you'll learn
>
> Trevor--
>
> The post you quoted was being sarcastic.

Nono he must already know everything. We should listen

Rick

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At 21.12 19/05/2005 +0100, you wrote:

> --- Staff <anna.antenucci@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ninja are nothing more than paesant superstition and
>> an excuse for
>> incompetent bodyguards. There are no ninja, and I
>> will hear nothing more on
>> the matter.
>
>
>Don't be silly, because your ignorant of the facts
>doesn't mean its not so. You need to read a lot more
>that how you'll learn

wow.. I wrote this post... like... months ago? quite a slow reply lol.
anyway mine was just a historical citation of a pretty angry damyo.. :D
nothing to lose your sleep for.... wonder why you took it so bad... what
if, for real, ninjas was only a myth? I think it would be funny :D


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> >
> >Don't be silly, because your ignorant of the facts
> >doesn't mean its not so. You need to read a lot more
> >that how you'll learn
>
> wow.. I wrote this post... like... months ago? quite a slow reply lol.
> anyway mine was just a historical citation of a pretty angry

damyo.. :D

> nothing to lose your sleep for.... wonder why you took it so bad...

what

> if, for real, ninjas was only a myth? I think it would be funny :D
>
>
> --

It would be really funny if the shinobi were really just plain old
samurai, just with specialized training, simmilar to our special
forces. I think it would also be funny if they used roughly the same
exact weapons as the samurai, give or take 1 or 2. I would also laugh
too if they didn't wear black but dressed like the enemy to blend in,
and not be found out by a guard saying "Who is that in the black
pajamas with a sword, coming towards us?"

Guard 2: "I don't know, we could just kill him then ask."

That would be an awesome joke.

Maikeru

>It would be really funny if the shinobi were really just plain old
>samurai, just with specialized training, simmilar to our special
>forces. I think it would also be funny if they used roughly the same
>exact weapons as the samurai, give or take 1 or 2. I would also laugh
>too if they didn't wear black but dressed like the enemy to blend in,
>and not be found out by a guard saying "Who is that in the black
>pajamas with a sword, coming towards us?"
>
>Guard 2: "I don't know, we could just kill him then ask."
>
>That would be an awesome joke.
>
>Maikeru

lol actually I think would be more like...

Guard 1: "Who is that in the black pajamas with a sword, coming towards us?"
Guard 2: "what is a pajamas?"

I don't think at those times they even knew what is a pajama (not making a
pun on spelling I don't know how's spelled myself) personally I don't
really belive ninjas even existed at all. but still it's silly consider
silly the way they are depicted to dress... to us with our culture sounds
silly.. at the time and wif a different culture might look scary who knows
:D in japanese and chinese mythology there are alot of funny looking
creatures, yet japanese never considered them funny at all...



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> > nothing to lose your sleep for.... wonder why you
> took it so bad...
> what
> > if, for real, ninjas was only a myth? I think it
> would be funny :D
> >
> >

I was one of the ones who responded and it was cause
freakin yahoo gives me my newest emails first. I don't
need yahoo to make me look like an idiot I can do it
all by myself

Rick

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You know what I realized afte rlooking at Stephen Hayes dojo site. His
buisness is shady at best.

To go to one of his seminars it costs $300. And supposing I was dumb
enough to want to teach his stuff at a dojo I would have to buy the
dvd on which class I want to teach, watch it, then send mor emoney to
have a curriculum sent to me.

http://www.skhquest.com/

Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no decency.

Maikeru

Hi Maikeru,

> You know what I realized afte rlooking at Stephen Hayes dojo site.
> His
> buisness is shady at best.
>
> To go to one of his seminars it costs $300. And supposing I was
> dumb
> enough to want to teach his stuff at a dojo I would have to buy the
> dvd on which class I want to teach, watch it, then send mor emoney
> to
> have a curriculum sent to me.
>
> http://www.skhquest.com/
>
> Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no
> decency.
>
> Maikeru

Firstly, thanks for posting Hayes' URL, it was interesting to visit the
"horse's mouth(?)":-)

I think the answer to your last question is sadly no. However, Kitsuno
had previously put up the following link as an antidote for such woes,
so if you missed it, please go and enjoy:

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

Now, seriously, as a re-enactor of Japanese history I am forever having
to explain, that in my opinion virtually the whole "ninja" thing is pure
baloney, although I do put it more politely than that normally. Does
anyone know of a web site that deals with this topic in a genuinely
scholarly fashion? So far, all I can find are the usual crop of ninja
wanabe dojo's, or those frothing at the mouth with their pre-pubescent
fantasies, as for the rest: - silence.

Cepo wrote that he had read mountains of books for his Phd, and not one
mention of the ninja, which to me is dam fine evidence. But what I need
to be able to point folks at is a reputable and scholarly discussion of
the subject, preferably short, putting the ninja in (or out of) their
historical context, citing the evidence one way or another. The trouble
is when I tried to write a short piece for my website, I realised, that
I'm massively unqualified to do it any kind of credible justice. So,
help!

I suspect that there is nothing out there as this whole subject has a
pariah quality about it, meaning that to date any scholar worth their
salt, treats it like a hot potato and leaves the topic well alone! Oh
well...

Yours

Dean
Definitely not a secret mystical ninja master from England, unless you
know otherwise:-)
***

Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name created that site. It reads like a child wrote it. Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!! Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!

Dean Wayland <dean@...> wrote:Hi Maikeru,

> You know what I realized afte rlooking at Stephen Hayes dojo site.
> His
> buisness is shady at best.
>
> To go to one of his seminars it costs $300. And supposing I was
> dumb
> enough to want to teach his stuff at a dojo I would have to buy the
> dvd on which class I want to teach, watch it, then send mor emoney
> to
> have a curriculum sent to me.
>
> http://www.skhquest.com/
>
> Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no
> decency.
>
> Maikeru

Firstly, thanks for posting Hayes' URL, it was interesting to visit the
"horse's mouth(?)":-)

I think the answer to your last question is sadly no. However, Kitsuno
had previously put up the following link as an antidote for such woes,
so if you missed it, please go and enjoy:

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

Now, seriously, as a re-enactor of Japanese history I am forever having
to explain, that in my opinion virtually the whole "ninja" thing is pure
baloney, although I do put it more politely than that normally. Does
anyone know of a web site that deals with this topic in a genuinely
scholarly fashion? So far, all I can find are the usual crop of ninja
wanabe dojo's, or those frothing at the mouth with their pre-pubescent
fantasies, as for the rest: - silence.

Cepo wrote that he had read mountains of books for his Phd, and not one
mention of the ninja, which to me is dam fine evidence. But what I need
to be able to point folks at is a reputable and scholarly discussion of
the subject, preferably short, putting the ninja in (or out of) their
historical context, citing the evidence one way or another. The trouble
is when I tried to write a short piece for my website, I realised, that
I'm massively unqualified to do it any kind of credible justice. So,
help!

I suspect that there is nothing out there as this whole subject has a
pariah quality about it, meaning that to date any scholar worth their
salt, treats it like a hot potato and leaves the topic well alone! Oh
well...

Yours

Dean
Definitely not a secret mystical ninja master from England, unless you
know otherwise:-)
***

Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hey,i was just lookin at the shogun page,hahaha coincidentally did you know that mr hayes,was actually an actor in the original movie shogun?no bs.oh,and the photo of the samurai playing go....samurai would not sit like that.atleast not in the presence of others.

Dean Wayland <dean@...> wrote:Hi Maikeru,

> You know what I realized afte rlooking at Stephen Hayes dojo site.
> His
> buisness is shady at best.
>
> To go to one of his seminars it costs $300. And supposing I was
> dumb
> enough to want to teach his stuff at a dojo I would have to buy the
> dvd on which class I want to teach, watch it, then send mor emoney
> to
> have a curriculum sent to me.
>
> http://www.skhquest.com/
>
> Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no
> decency.
>
> Maikeru

Firstly, thanks for posting Hayes' URL, it was interesting to visit the
"horse's mouth(?)":-)

I think the answer to your last question is sadly no. However, Kitsuno
had previously put up the following link as an antidote for such woes,
so if you missed it, please go and enjoy:

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

Now, seriously, as a re-enactor of Japanese history I am forever having
to explain, that in my opinion virtually the whole "ninja" thing is pure
baloney, although I do put it more politely than that normally. Does
anyone know of a web site that deals with this topic in a genuinely
scholarly fashion? So far, all I can find are the usual crop of ninja
wanabe dojo's, or those frothing at the mouth with their pre-pubescent
fantasies, as for the rest: - silence.

Cepo wrote that he had read mountains of books for his Phd, and not one
mention of the ninja, which to me is dam fine evidence. But what I need
to be able to point folks at is a reputable and scholarly discussion of
the subject, preferably short, putting the ninja in (or out of) their
historical context, citing the evidence one way or another. The trouble
is when I tried to write a short piece for my website, I realised, that
I'm massively unqualified to do it any kind of credible justice. So,
help!

I suspect that there is nothing out there as this whole subject has a
pariah quality about it, meaning that to date any scholar worth their
salt, treats it like a hot potato and leaves the topic well alone! Oh
well...

Yours

Dean
Definitely not a secret mystical ninja master from England, unless you
know otherwise:-)
***

Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Dean Wayland wrote:

>
> Now, seriously, as a re-enactor of Japanese history I am forever

having

> to explain, that in my opinion virtually the whole "ninja" thing is

pure

> baloney, although I do put it more politely than that normally. Does
> anyone know of a web site that deals with this topic in a genuinely
> scholarly fashion? So far, all I can find are the usual crop of ninja
> wanabe dojo's, or those frothing at the mouth with their pre-

pubescent

> fantasies, as for the rest: - silence.
>

Try this: http://www.ejmas.com

The Electronic Journal of Martial Arts Sciences
Links to this and many more at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Martial_Arts_History

--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:

> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!

And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
site...

Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.

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" hey,i was just lookin at the shogun page,hahaha coincidentally did
you know that
mr hayes,was actually an actor in the original movie shogun?"

Well, Hayes CLAIMS he was, anyway. He is uncredited and the detailed
list of cast & crew (including stunt personnel) I have gives no mention
of him. The only other place I've ever seen it mentioned was in an
interview with Hayes (of course) in Kick magazine back in the 80's
where among other things he claims to have been living in Japan for
years, given the Shogun production crew ninja history and choreography
for the ninja attack sequence, and just totally impressed the whole
crew with his grasp of Japanese history and martial arts. The part he
was supposed to have played was a stuntman part-the crewman that falls
off the mast of the Erasmus into the ocean.
Perhaps some clever Japanese solution to get rid of the
gaijin 'expert'...

Hi Carl,

> hey,i was just lookin at the shogun page

Hope you enjoyed it, it is supposed to be fun after all:-)

>hahaha coincidentally did
> you know that mr hayes,was actually an actor in the original movie
> shogun?no bs

No I didn't, but then the series isn't history either, it's just a great
romp, plus it's what got me started down the road to real Japanese
history, as with so many others of us in the West. So I have personally
a great debt of gratitude to Clavell for writing it, I just wish he'd
followed the original story a wee bit closer!

>.oh,and the photo of the samurai playing go....samurai
> would not sit like that.atleast not in the presence of others.

Yep, can't fault you on that one, you're absolutely right, but I'm old,
grey haired, grumpy, and my knees no longer like being sat on, plus
after many years of wearing combat boots, my ankles object to bending
quite that far. And besides, it had been a long hot day and my old bones
just wanted to go flomp on the deck. And to cap it all, I'm virtually
blind, and if I sat properly I'd never be able to see the board, mind
you it wouldn't have made much difference to the outcome of that
particular game:-) Seppuku anybody?

Yours

Dean

P.S. For those who don't know what Carl is referring to when he say's
"Shogun page", see my link below and all will be revealed.
***
Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk/SHOGUN.htm

Hi Cayce,


In message <d7cp2m+c8ee@...>, Cayce <cslanc49@...> writes

> Try this:  http://www.ejmas.com
>
> The Electronic Journal of Martial Arts Sciences
> Links to this and many more at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Martial_Arts_History

Cheer's for that, but what I'm really looking for ideally is an
authoritative on-line article that I can link to from my web site.

Yours

Dean
***
Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk

I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
Later.

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:

> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!

And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
site...

Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.

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At 07:56 AM 5/29/2005, you wrote:

>Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no decency.

Yeah. God forbid the man would want to make any money teaching classes
and such. He's got a lot fo nerve wanting to feed his family, build a
retirement account, buy a nice car, etc. He should live in the darned woods
and eat grubs and tree bark. If he were a self-respecting ninja master
that's exactly what he would do! What a loser. Sheesh. LOL


Mark Arsenault

Actually it was a kid who wrote it, and has been in and out of the courts
for quite a while to ban his website and erase the material that is on it,
but he is protected from the first amendment so they cannot stop his website


He is even the author of a book. at the time he was 13 years old. His book
is even banned in some states, cities, and book stores. I actually saw the
book in a book store and I peeked into it for a bit, and laughed at it.
there is not one speck of real Ninpo in the entire book. now I read that he
was found not guilty he hugged the woman that was suing him, and then pulled
down his pants and defecated on the floor on the way out of court saying
that is real ultimate power" and vanished. Now I do not know if that is true
or not but it seems to be in news sites including CNN..

Mike

-------Original Message-------

From: ROD PAVEZ
Date: 05/29/05 19:47:17
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name created that site. It reads
like a child wrote it. Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!

Dean Wayland <dean@...> wrote:Hi Maikeru,

> You know what I realized afte rlooking at Stephen Hayes dojo site.
> His
> buisness is shady at best.
>
> To go to one of his seminars it costs $300. And supposing I was
> dumb
> enough to want to teach his stuff at a dojo I would have to buy the
> dvd on which class I want to teach, watch it, then send mor emoney
> to
> have a curriculum sent to me.
>
> http://www.skhquest.com/
>
> Sorry to ressurect the whole Hayes thing, but god is there no
> decency.
>
> Maikeru

Firstly, thanks for posting Hayes' URL, it was interesting to visit the
"horse's mouth(?)":-)

I think the answer to your last question is sadly no. However, Kitsuno
had previously put up the following link as an antidote for such woes,
so if you missed it, please go and enjoy:

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

Now, seriously, as a re-enactor of Japanese history I am forever having
to explain, that in my opinion virtually the whole "ninja" thing is pure
baloney, although I do put it more politely than that normally. Does
anyone know of a web site that deals with this topic in a genuinely
scholarly fashion? So far, all I can find are the usual crop of ninja
wanabe dojo's, or those frothing at the mouth with their pre-pubescent
fantasies, as for the rest: - silence.

Cepo wrote that he had read mountains of books for his Phd, and not one
mention of the ninja, which to me is dam fine evidence. But what I need
to be able to point folks at is a reputable and scholarly discussion of
the subject, preferably short, putting the ninja in (or out of) their
historical context, citing the evidence one way or another. The trouble
is when I tried to write a short piece for my website, I realised, that
I'm massively unqualified to do it any kind of credible justice. So,
help!

I suspect that there is nothing out there as this whole subject has a
pariah quality about it, meaning that to date any scholar worth their
salt, treats it like a hot potato and leaves the topic well alone! Oh
well...

Yours

Dean
Definitely not a secret mystical ninja master from England, unless you
know otherwise:-)
***

Dean Wayland
Head Of The Fight School
http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk



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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
> site...
>
> Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.

I have a theory that the excessive use of smilies or other tags to
denote such things is slowly (or perhaps not-so-slowly) eroding the
average netizen's ability to recognise them in their pure form...

--
Phil
Men with sharpness of mind are to be found only among those with a
penchant for thought. -- Shiba Yoshimasa

The best source to find that is the movie database. Here is Hayes's
profile. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0371230/

Mike



--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Schadel"
wrote:

> " hey,i was just lookin at the shogun page,hahaha coincidentally did
> you know that
> mr hayes,was actually an actor in the original movie shogun?"
>
> Well, Hayes CLAIMS he was, anyway. He is uncredited and the detailed
> list of cast & crew (including stunt personnel) I have gives no mention
> of him. The only other place I've ever seen it mentioned was in an
> interview with Hayes (of course) in Kick magazine back in the 80's
> where among other things he claims to have been living in Japan for
> years, given the Shogun production crew ninja history and choreography
> for the ninja attack sequence, and just totally impressed the whole
> crew with his grasp of Japanese history and martial arts. The part he
> was supposed to have played was a stuntman part-the crewman that falls
> off the mast of the Erasmus into the ocean.
> Perhaps some clever Japanese solution to get rid of the
> gaijin 'expert'...

Because it is fun and some people would get the joke?

Dan Cooper

ROD PAVEZ wrote:

> I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my
> email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why
> anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the
> perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the
> attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely
> sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
> Later.
>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
>
> --- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
> > Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> > created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> > Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> > Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!
>
> And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
> site...
>
> Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.
>

Ok a rare post from me moment. We all seem to be getting a little off topic with the whole ninja topic. From my perspective (24yro) I find that the ninja have somewhat been given a superhero mythical status. Im a firm believer in classical arts and that the modern day version of a ninja is nothing more than a perversion of history, On one of the forums in which I moderate there a forum ninjas ( moderators) this kinda shows how to be a ninja is uber cool!! ( and trust me these guys have never even heard the word Iga ,let alone looked at ninja history) I also believe that modern day ninja are a 20th century interpretation of what we would want them to be, almost comic book in fact. I not sure if the western worlds interpretation of ninja is directly responsable for the ninja fad,or that the ninjas own secerecy and art of deception is responsible for leaving blanks in which peoples 'poetic licence' run amuck.

ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
Later.

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:

> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!

And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
site...

Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.

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--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> Actually it was a kid who wrote it, and has been in
> and out of the courts
> for quite a while to ban his website and erase the
> material that is on it,
> but he is protected from the first amendment so they
> cannot stop his website
>
>
> He is even the author of a book. at the time he was
> 13 years old. His book
> is even banned in some states, cities, and book
> stores. I actually saw the
> book in a book store and I peeked into it for a bit,
> and laughed at it.
> there is not one speck of real Ninpo in the entire
> book. now I read that he
> was found not guilty he hugged the woman that was
> suing him, and then pulled
> down his pants and defecated on the floor on the way
> out of court saying
> that is real ultimate power" and vanished. Now I do
> not know if that is true
> or not but it seems to be in news sites including
> CNN..
>
> Mike

Hmm. Not sure I buy the last part. I'd think that he
wouldn't exactly be allowed to "vanish" after
defecating on the floor of a court room, but maybe he
used his magic ninja powers. If you could find a link
or two, I'd be interested.



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--- Phil <ptourigny@...> wrote:

> I have a theory that the excessive use of smilies
> or other tags to
> denote such things is slowly (or perhaps
> not-so-slowly) eroding the
> average netizen's ability to recognise them in their
> pure form...

13 year old or not, court activity or not, the author
is very adept at parody.




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--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
Now that you

> mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would
> waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun
> at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I
> mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting
> their time I think.

Probably because they thought it was funny. Just a
thought though.

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Oh boy, it's not just about ninja anymore!!

http://tinyurl.com/agv9m
http://tinyurl.com/ap53d
http://tinyurl.com/85el8
http://tinyurl.com/72lk6



--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> --- ROD PAVEZ wrote:
> Now that you
> > mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would
> > waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun
> > at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I
> > mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting
> > their time I think.
>
> Probably because they thought it was funny. Just a
> thought though.
>

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Youngblood"
wrote:

> Actually it was a kid who wrote it, and has been in and out of the

courts

> for quite a while to ban his website and erase the material that

is on it,

> but he is protected from the first amendment so they cannot stop

his website

>
>
> He is even the author of a book. at the time he was 13 years old.

His book

> is even banned in some states, cities, and book stores. I actually

saw the

> book in a book store and I peeked into it for a bit, and laughed

at it.

> there is not one speck of real Ninpo in the entire book. now I

read that he

> was found not guilty he hugged the woman that was suing him, and

then pulled

> down his pants and defecated on the floor on the way out of court

saying

> that is real ultimate power" and vanished. Now I do not know if

that is true

> or not but it seems to be in news sites including CNN..
>
> Mike
>

You can get the book on amazon.com:

Real Ultimate Power: The Official Ninja Book
by Robert Hamburger
$9.95


It went into my 'wish list' immediately.

Michael wrote:

> The best source to find that is the movie database. Here is Hayes's
> profile. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0371230/

The problem is, just about anyone can update IMDB. The only source that says
Hayes was in Shogun is Hayes himself. If someone at the IMDB wanted to verify
it, they would contact Hayes and ask him if he was in it. All he has to do is
say "yes."

Short of that, one has no recourse but to contact the studio and ask for
25-year-old records on payments made for extras. And, frankly, I doubt they have
those at this point. At any rate, being a guy who falls off the rigging is the
type of job that would be given to a professional stuntman, not some random guy
off the street extra. Not to mention it's hardly a claim to fame.

I think this claim, like so many others he makes, is pure BS.


Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

--- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
wrote:

> Michael wrote:
>
> > The best source to find that is the movie
> database. Here is Hayes's
> > profile. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0371230/
>
> The problem is, just about anyone can update IMDB.
> The only source that says
> Hayes was in Shogun is Hayes himself. If someone at
> the IMDB wanted to verify
> it, they would contact Hayes and ask him if he was
> in it. All he has to do is
> say "yes."

Same reason I don't trust Wilipedia beyond giving a
starting point to confirm or deny.



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this is one place I found it...
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~loco/msnbcninjanews3msnbcnewsother3.htm

Mike

-------Original Message-------

From: Nate Ledbetter
Date: 05/30/05 19:35:56
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> Actually it was a kid who wrote it, and has been in
> and out of the courts
> for quite a while to ban his website and erase the
> material that is on it,
> but he is protected from the first amendment so they
> cannot stop his website
>
>
> He is even the author of a book. at the time he was
> 13 years old. His book
> is even banned in some states, cities, and book
> stores. I actually saw the
> book in a book store and I peeked into it for a bit,
> and laughed at it.
> there is not one speck of real Ninpo in the entire
> book. now I read that he
> was found not guilty he hugged the woman that was
> suing him, and then pulled
> down his pants and defecated on the floor on the way
> out of court saying
> that is real ultimate power" and vanished. Now I do
> not know if that is true
> or not but it seems to be in news sites including
> CNN..
>
> Mike

Hmm. Not sure I buy the last part. I'd think that he
wouldn't exactly be allowed to "vanish" after
defecating on the floor of a court room, but maybe he
used his magic ninja powers. If you could find a link
or two, I'd be interested.



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--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> this is one place I found it...
>

http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~loco/msnbcninjanews3msnbcnewsother3.htm

>
> Mike

Maybe it's just me, but this appears to be a REALLY
good fake of an MSNBC article. None of the links at
the bottom seem to work (They all direct you to
another www.bol.ucla.edu site, not to any actual MSNBC
site), and I highly doubt anyone with any sense of
journalistic pride would actually type "laid a log" in
a real story.

Okay, maybe USA Today.

I ran the author's name through Google, and can't come
up with anything other than this, links to the site,
and links to message boards debating whether he's for
real. (I'm excluding the numerous hits for Robert
Hamburger, genetics researcher--apparently he shares
the name, unfortunately).

I'm going to try to check this out some more, but so
far, I'm not buying it.





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--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

>
> --- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...>
> wrote:
> > this is one place I found it...
> >
>

http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~loco/msnbcninjanews3msnbcnewsother3.htm

Try doing a search for him on MSNBC--"Robert
Hamburger" just turns up stories on e coli. "ninja"
gets you nothing about this website.

A similar search on CNN turned up plenty about
killings in the Congolese town of Ninja and reviews
for Tenchu 3, but nothing about this "news" story.

Sorry, I think you've been sold the Brooklyn Bridge.



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If you do find a legit article I would very muck like to see it. This was
the only article I've seen, and I had to hunt that one down. I was mistaken
that it was CNN. when it was MSNBC, for that I apologize.

-------Original Message-------

From: Nate Ledbetter
Date: 05/30/05 22:27:10
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


--- Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:

>
> --- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...>
> wrote:
> > this is one place I found it...
> >
>

http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~loco/msnbcninjanews3msnbcnewsother3.htm

Try doing a search for him on MSNBC--"Robert
Hamburger" just turns up stories on e coli. "ninja"
gets you nothing about this website.

A similar search on CNN turned up plenty about
killings in the Congolese town of Ninja and reviews
for Tenchu 3, but nothing about this "news" story.

Sorry, I think you've been sold the Brooklyn Bridge.



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--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> If you do find a legit article I would very muck
> like to see it. This was
> the only article I've seen, and I had to hunt that
> one down. I was mistaken
> that it was CNN. when it was MSNBC, for that I
> apologize.

You had to hunt it down, because it's not REAL. It's
hosted off the UCLA website, which leads me to believe
it's the creation of one or more UCLA students, as a
joke. NOTHING comes up on the MSNBC site if you look
for anything related to this.

Not only is the website a parody, but all this
business about being in court and defecating is ALSO a
parody/joke. My only question is this: is it the same
person/people as those who created the site, or is it
someone making their own spinoff to the saga?

*sigh*

And people get upset when I lament the failure of
today's youth to grasp irony...



__________________________________
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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> And people get upset when I lament the failure of
> today's youth to grasp irony...

On top of it all, people are just too... well, gullible today.

Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

My only question is this: is it the same
person/people as those who created the site, or is it
someone making their own spinoff to the saga?

That indeed is a good question and you are probably right. I realize the
site and the book is a parody, I have another word for it, but I would like
to keep it G Rated here.

I was merely answering the question that he was a child.

Mike
-------Original Message-------

From: Nate Ledbetter
Date: 05/30/05 23:54:04
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> If you do find a legit article I would very muck
> like to see it. This was
> the only article I've seen, and I had to hunt that
> one down. I was mistaken
> that it was CNN. when it was MSNBC, for that I
> apologize.

You had to hunt it down, because it's not REAL. It's
hosted off the UCLA website, which leads me to believe
it's the creation of one or more UCLA students, as a
joke. NOTHING comes up on the MSNBC site if you look
for anything related to this.

Not only is the website a parody, but all this
business about being in court and defecating is ALSO a
parody/joke. My only question is this: is it the same
person/people as those who created the site, or is it
someone making their own spinoff to the saga?

*sigh*

And people get upset when I lament the failure of
today's youth to grasp irony...



__________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

>
> I was merely answering the question that he was a
> child.
>
> Mike

Is he? If the "article" we've been discussing is your
source for this, and it in and of itself is a joke,
then how do we really know he IS a child?

I still have my doubts.

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oh no.. that is confirmed. I even talked to him a couple of years back. he
has even tried to enter a few Ninjutsu Dojos I am referring to Genbukan, and
Bujinkan. I am not aware if he applied to a Jinenkan dojo.
I was introduced to him through a couple of Independent Ninjutsu Instructors
at the time I talked to him he was 13.
he was also spouting off on some forums, talking some twisted things. he was
tracked down and found out his real age. he also asked me about a webpage I
had on making a Sword. he wanted to use it on his page. but I don't think he
ever used it though.. good thing..
-------Original Message-------

From: Nate Ledbetter
Date: 05/31/05 00:28:56
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

>
> I was merely answering the question that he was a
> child.
>
> Mike

Is he? If the "article" we've been discussing is your
source for this, and it in and of itself is a joke,
then how do we really know he IS a child?

I still have my doubts.

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---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> oh no.. that is confirmed. I even talked to him a
> couple of years back. he
> has even tried to enter a few Ninjutsu Dojos I am
> referring to Genbukan, and
> Bujinkan. I am not aware if he applied to a Jinenkan
> dojo.
> I was introduced to him through a couple of
> Independent Ninjutsu Instructors
> at the time I talked to him he was 13.
> he was also spouting off on some forums, talking
> some twisted things. he was
> tracked down and found out his real age. he also
> asked me about a webpage I
> had on making a Sword. he wanted to use it on his
> page. but I don't think he
> ever used it though.. good thing..

Hmm. Okay then. I suppose accidental parody is better
than none at all.



__________________________________
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--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> --- Michael Youngblood wrote:
> > oh no.. that is confirmed. I even talked to him a
> > couple of years back. he
> > has even tried to enter a few Ninjutsu Dojos I am
> > referring to Genbukan, and
> > Bujinkan. I am not aware if he applied to a Jinenkan
> > dojo.
> > I was introduced to him through a couple of
> > Independent Ninjutsu Instructors
> > at the time I talked to him he was 13.
> > he was also spouting off on some forums, talking
> > some twisted things. he was
> > tracked down and found out his real age. he also
> > asked me about a webpage I
> > had on making a Sword. he wanted to use it on his
> > page. but I don't think he
> > ever used it though.. good thing..
>
> Hmm. Okay then. I suppose accidental parody is better
> than none at all.
>

Well, for a 13 year old kid, he did an impressive job of publishing
his book: (if one link doesnt work, try the other)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/080652569X/qid=1117530188/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-4665900-3762249?
v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://tinyurl.com/d8je2

Editorial Reviews

Book Description
Dear Stupid Idiots,
A lot of you have been saying that I don't know anything about REAL
ninjas. But that's a bunch of bull crap! You dummies don't know
anything. And maybe YOU should get a life. I bet a lot of you have
never even seen a girl naked! You idiots believe that ninjas had
some "code of honor." Yeah right! If by "code of honor," you
mean "code to flip out and go nuts for absolutely no reason at all
even if it means that people might think you are totally insane or
sweet," then you are right. But if you mean a "code to be nice and
speak nicely while sharing and not cutting off heads," then you're
the biggest idiot ever!!!!!! So if you have any brains, you will
shut up and get a life. So go shut up, you stupid idiot.

No thank you,

Robert Hamburger


Review:

Ever have an obsession when you were a kid? Something you loved so
much that you couldn't stop talking about it to anyone and everyone?
Multiply that by 100 and you get Robert Hamburger, the fictional
author/protagonist of the book. While the book is primarily made up
of the same material that is posted on the website, the true point
of the book is hidden in it's footnotes. Through conversations with
his babysitter/co-writer, dog, parents and psychologist, we follow
Robert's story and delve into the psyche of a pretty messed up
little kid. What a lot of people dont seem to get is that the book,
like the site, isn't actually about Ninjas. It's not REALLY a ninja
hand guide, or a history lesson. The point isnt to educate, the
point is to tell the story of a troubled kid who buries himself in a
ninja fantasy in order to escape his negligant parents, over-
critical teachers and to compensate for his lack of friends. As a
kid we all had times when we wished we could run away to the circus,
or could go live in outer space, or whatever, because we felt like
we couldn't indentify with anyone.. this book is simply the story of
a kid going through that kind of period in his life. And for
everyone that claims that the website and the book may cause kids
to "flip out and kill each other," I believe that the book actually
encourages the exact opposite. Robert is facsinated with killing and
violence because it's what he wants to do to the people that have
hurt him in his life, or he wants to find a ninja friend to do it...
hell, we've seen children and young adults in this situation before
a few years back, and we've seen the consequences of such pent up
anger. This book is not an advocate of violence, but a warning as to
what can happen when we try to force kids to abandon childish
things, pump them full of medicine and "discipline" in order to make
them grow up fast, rather than encourage them to be silly, dream and
savor every momment of their childhood. I for one did not expect
this level of complexity in this book, but I was totally floored
after finishing it. Comedy, especially parody, has always been the
best forum for social commentary, and this book masters it. If you
hate the site, or if you don't get it, spend the $10 and read the
book and I'm pretty sure you'll change your opinion. This book is
genius: and by genius, I mean totally sweet.

--- "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbryant@...>
wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
>
> > And people get upset when I lament the failure of
> > today's youth to grasp irony...
>
> On top of it all, people are just too... well,
> gullible today.
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

Today?

Snake oil salesman been around for a long time. Is
that Effingham ILL? I used to live in Mattoon.

Rick

Monthly Fight Clips in Monthly Announcements
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Martial_Arts_Ads_And_Discussion

UPDATED! Workout Timer Plays Music or Tada Try it Out http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/KirkhamsEbooks2 /files/MartialArtsSoftware/

FREE Speed Drills Mini Ebook http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/KirkhamsEbooks2 /files/MartialArtsEbooks2/

WARNING TO PARENTS http://starbulletin.com/2004/08/12/news/story3.html

>--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:
>> oh no.. that is confirmed. I even talked to him a
>> couple of years back. he
>> has even tried to enter a few Ninjutsu Dojos I am
>> referring to Genbukan, and
>> Bujinkan. I am not aware if he applied to a Jinenkan
>> dojo.
>> I was introduced to him through a couple of
>> Independent Ninjutsu Instructors
>> at the time I talked to him he was 13.
>> he was also spouting off on some forums, talking
>> some twisted things. he was
>> tracked down and found out his real age. he also
>> asked me about a webpage I
>> had on making a Sword. he wanted to use it on his
>> page. but I don't think he
>> ever used it though.. good thing..
>
>Hmm. Okay then. I suppose accidental parody is better
>than none at all.

actually... what relevance it has the age of who writes things? does it
matter if he was serious or not? does it matter at all what he wanted to
say? to me matters more the meaning I give to his words.




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005

--- iganokami <intp@...> wrote:

>
> Well, for a 13 year old kid, he did an impressive
> job of publishing
> his book: (if one link doesnt work, try the other)
>

Wow--that review was, like, totally sweet. If I don't
get that book for my birthday, I may have to flip out
and kill someone.

I will again point out that the review described
Master Hamburger as "fictional".

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Did you know gullible isn't actually in the dictionary? Just a
little useless trivia I thought you might like to know.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"
wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
>
> > And people get upset when I lament the failure of
> > today's youth to grasp irony...
>
> On top of it all, people are just too... well, gullible today.
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

Check out the whole directory of REAL ULTIMATE POWER websites.

Gotta Love the George W Bush ones!

http://brianx.com/realultimatepower.html


Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsuno" <samurai-listowner@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 2:01 AM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


> Oh boy, it's not just about ninja anymore!!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/agv9m
> http://tinyurl.com/ap53d
> http://tinyurl.com/85el8
> http://tinyurl.com/72lk6
>
>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
> wrote:
> >
> > --- ROD PAVEZ wrote:
> > Now that you
> > > mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would
> > > waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun
> > > at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I
> > > mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting
> > > their time I think.
> >
> > Probably because they thought it was funny. Just a
> > thought though.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Now that you mention it was a 13 year old it makes sense that they would do something like this. Its understandable but if it were to be an adult, well... Adults spending their time on this sort of thing? I didn't know the age of the person but as I mentioned before now it makes more sense. Only a child would spend their time on that sort of thing. But if it gets your jollies, who am I to criticize?
Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- Phil <ptourigny@...> wrote:

> I have a theory that the excessive use of smilies
> or other tags to
> denote such things is slowly (or perhaps
> not-so-slowly) eroding the
> average netizen's ability to recognise them in their
> pure form...

13 year old or not, court activity or not, the author
is very adept at parody.




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---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some people get their laughs in the strangest of ways.

Daniel Cooper <danielcooper@...> wrote:Because it is fun and some people would get the joke?

Dan Cooper

ROD PAVEZ wrote:

> I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my
> email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why
> anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the
> perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the
> attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely
> sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
> Later.
>
> Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
>
> --- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
> > Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> > created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> > Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> > Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!
>
> And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
> site...
>
> Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.
>

---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is in my dictionary.



<http://www.kyoshindojo.org/>

<http://www.kyoshindojo.org/> www.KyoshinDojo.org



-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kyle Segall
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 12:16 PM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America



Did you know gullible isn't actually in the dictionary? Just a
little useless trivia I thought you might like to know.

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"
wrote:

> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
>
> > And people get upset when I lament the failure of
> > today's youth to grasp irony...
>
> On top of it all, people are just too... well, gullible today.
>
> Tony
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

---
Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
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---




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can't argue with that. After all, there are some people who like Pauley
Shore movies.

Dan Cooper

ROD PAVEZ wrote:

> Some people get their laughs in the strangest of ways.
>
> Daniel Cooper <danielcooper@...> wrote:Because it is fun and
> some people would get the joke?
>
> Dan Cooper
>
> ROD PAVEZ wrote:
>
> > I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my
> > email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why
> > anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the
> > perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the
> > attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely
> > sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
> > Later.
> >
> > Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
> > > Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> > > created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> > > Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> > > Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!
> >
> > And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
> > site...
> >
> > Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
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>
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>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Tom Johnson <tomj01@...> wrote:

> It is in my dictionary.
>
>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/> www.KyoshinDojo.org

Please...tell me you didn't go grab a dictionary and
double check....



__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Did you know gullible isn't actually in the dictionary? Just a
little useless trivia I thought you might like to know.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....guess you proved me to be in the "gullible" catagory
since I went straight to Merriam-Webster. LOL. Man I feel stupid! :p


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Even better..I have four dictionaries on my laptop. lol





-----Original Message-----
From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com [mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Nate Ledbetter
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:46 PM
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America




--- Tom Johnson <tomj01@...> wrote:

> It is in my dictionary.
>
>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/> www.KyoshinDojo.org

Please...tell me you didn't go grab a dictionary and
double check....



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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey bro' to each his own. They say comfort is what you get from those who agree with you but growth from those who disagree with you. And Pauly Shore sucks as a comedian, in my opinion that is.

Daniel Cooper <danielcooper@...> wrote:Can't argue with that. After all, there are some people who like Pauley
Shore movies.

Dan Cooper

ROD PAVEZ wrote:

> Some people get their laughs in the strangest of ways.
>
> Daniel Cooper <danielcooper@...> wrote:Because it is fun and
> some people would get the joke?
>
> Dan Cooper
>
> ROD PAVEZ wrote:
>
> > I apologize Nate. I'v been out of town awhile and haven't checked my
> > email recently. Now that you mention its a parody I still wonder why
> > anyone would waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun at the
> > perspective most Americans have of ninja. I mean will it change the
> > attitude? Somebody's wasting their time I think. And definitely
> > sarcasm is not something you spare Nate.
> > Later.
> >
> > Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
> > > Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!! Who in God's name
> > > created that site. It reads like a child wrote it.
> > > Ninja just flip out and kill people? Ha, ha, ha!!!!
> > > Somebody put the author out of his misery, please!
> >
> > And once again we have to explain that it`s a PARODY
> > site...
> >
> > Sarcasm, Irony....a lost art, it seems.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok if one can not be a samurai and ninja where samurai how can there be ninjitsu?Michael

Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:
My only question is this: is it the same
person/people as those who created the site, or is it
someone making their own spinoff to the saga?

That indeed is a good question and you are probably right. I realize the
site and the book is a parody, I have another word for it, but I would like
to keep it G Rated here.

I was merely answering the question that he was a child.

Mike
-------Original Message-------

From: Nate Ledbetter
Date: 05/30/05 23:54:04
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


--- Michael Youngblood <warrior02@...> wrote:

> If you do find a legit article I would very muck
> like to see it. This was
> the only article I've seen, and I had to hunt that
> one down. I was mistaken
> that it was CNN. when it was MSNBC, for that I
> apologize.

You had to hunt it down, because it's not REAL. It's
hosted off the UCLA website, which leads me to believe
it's the creation of one or more UCLA students, as a
joke. NOTHING comes up on the MSNBC site if you look
for anything related to this.

Not only is the website a parody, but all this
business about being in court and defecating is ALSO a
parody/joke. My only question is this: is it the same
person/people as those who created the site, or is it
someone making their own spinoff to the saga?

*sigh*

And people get upset when I lament the failure of
today's youth to grasp irony...



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Oh yeah FYI if many of you have ever been to the U.S.A in the last ten years and have dealt with its youth you may know that many will find out about this book and believe whats in it. That is a fact I can not speak for any other place but if you guys really want something to do and I know a few of you have and thats get the word of the truth out there but then again people will belive what they want to believe huh. Hmm so maybe theres no cure at all...

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
Now that you

> mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would
> waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun
> at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I
> mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting
> their time I think.

Probably because they thought it was funny. Just a
thought though.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> --- Tom Johnson wrote:
> > It is in my dictionary.
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/>
> >
> > <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/> www.KyoshinDojo.org
>
> Please...tell me you didn't go grab a dictionary and
> double check....
>

The irony is killing me...

maybe 'pop culture' and the western view have just perverted the true ninja. And what people assume to be a ninja is nothing more than comic book fantasy....

james wilson <johntwo8@...> wrote:Oh yeah FYI if many of you have ever been to the U.S.A in the last ten years and have dealt with its youth you may know that many will find out about this book and believe whats in it. That is a fact I can not speak for any other place but if you guys really want something to do and I know a few of you have and thats get the word of the truth out there but then again people will belive what they want to believe huh. Hmm so maybe theres no cure at all...

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:
--- ROD PAVEZ <grfkboyz@...> wrote:
Now that you

> mention its a parody I still wonder why anyone would
> waste their time on creating a site that pokes fun
> at the perspective most Americans have of ninja. I
> mean will it change the attitude? Somebody's wasting
> their time I think.

Probably because they thought it was funny. Just a
thought though.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sorry - hahahahah LOL!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Johnson" <tomj01@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America


> It is in my dictionary.
>
>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/>
>
> <http://www.kyoshindojo.org/> www.KyoshinDojo.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kyle Segall
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 12:16 PM
> To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Ninja Masters of America
>
>
>
> Did you know gullible isn't actually in the dictionary? Just a
> little useless trivia I thought you might like to know.
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony J. Bryant"
> wrote:
> > Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> >
> >
> > > And people get upset when I lament the failure of
> > > today's youth to grasp irony...
> >
> > On top of it all, people are just too... well, gullible today.
> >
> > Tony
> > --
> >
> > Anthony J. Bryant
> > Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
> >
> > Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> > http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
> >
> > Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> > http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Join the 2005 'Samurai Fiction' contest:
> http://www.samurai-archives.com/writcon.html
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> ---
>
>
>
>
> _____
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>
>
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>
>
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>
>
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>