Hi everyone, I’ve been a lurker on this list for a couple of weeks and so far I’m finding everything very interesting. I’m living in Fukuoka, Japan studying mainly Aikido and Calligraphy, but also Iaido, and Kyudo.
This thread on Bunbu ichi is of interest to me, I’ve never heard of it said like that before but my Aikido Sensei who is also my Calligraphy Sensei has written many times “ Bun BU Ryo Do, 文武両道 “ Which I believe translates into the brush ( literary studies ) and Budo are two parts of the same path.
Anyway just my first 2 cents on a fantastic list,
Yoroshiku onegaishimasu,
John Perry
p.s. Does anyone know what anniversary it was yesterday? ( 14th )
-----Original Message-----
From: Silk Road School [mailto:
silk.road.school@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:59 AM
To:
samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [samuraihistory] bunbu ichi
Tony -
Thank you for the corrections. If you can offer me a better translation - or better yet, a literal translation - of bunbu ichi, I'd be grateful, because "good as anything, I guess" is not really enough to satisfy me. This shows up in the way you apply the term in your final paragraph: my translation makes no grammatical sense in the way you use it, and I don't think it's because your grammar's bad. There's something I don't understand there, and I'd like to.
And while it does not entirely surprise me that some houses despised that ideal, for my own part I think it one of the redeeming features of any warrior ethic; and of the sundry values held by sundry warrior societies, it's one of those I think most important to pursue today. All fighting and no artistry makes Jack a dull boy, so to speak. I've seen enough of Musashi's artwork to recognise real art in it, and those who regard Musashi as "soft and poofy" seem to be few and far between.
This is not to dispute your history - I'm not such a fool as that - but to reiterate the importance I feel that bunbu ichi carries through to the present day.
Thanks again.
Gereg
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:17:31 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
Silk Road School wrote:
> James, this is not all that amazing. One of the ideals of the samurai was
> _bunbu ichi_ (I've also seen that transliterated as _bunbu no ichi_,
You shouldn't. That makes no sense in Japanese, where it is, strictly, "bunbu
ichi."
> This has been translated as "pen and sword
> in harmony."
That's as good as anything, I guess.
> You see, it is not enough to know how to swing a sword. Even if you regard
> your blade with the deepest respect, even if you practise endlessly, that is
> only a beginning. You must also attain some cultural accomplishments: to
> be able to compose poetry, say, or to draw well. A samurai who couldn't
> exhibit basic literacy would not have been well regarded in polite society.
Ah, but that's the whole point. "Bunbu ichi" was not a set rule. It was a
controversy. There were many houses that openly eschewed any appearance of the
"soft, poofy stuff" -- Some houses even maintained draconian punishments like
banishment or forced seppuku for those caught studying literature or playing
games or musical instruments; they deemed these pastimes as "unworthy" of the
warrior.
Other houses felt that, well, "bunbu ichi."
Tony
--
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Website:
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:21:52 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: The Last Samurai, the movie.
mark kd wrote:
> if you buy the movie book(or just go to your local book store and look at
> it), it will tell you what is accurate and what is not(to some extent). I
> have the DVD w/ the directors comentary and extra stuff on a 2nd cd, & it
> goes into some detail on the realness of the movie.
They have some nerve doing so.
> They said that 1/2 is
> fake & 1/2 is not.
They lie. There is so much that's wrong with it historically that I almost
cried. Yeah, the armour's pretty. Yeah, the battles are fancy. But historically
it was totally crapola.
Frankly, I'd think that Watanabe Ken and Sanada Hiroyuki ought to be
embarrassed. They've each made dozens of films -- some crappy, some really good
-- and the one they get international reputations for is this American "Dances
With Samurai" piece of steaming, fetid poop.
I finally caught it on HBO last night, after months and months of refusing to go
pay to see it, rent it, or buy it.
It made me sick.
Tony
--
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Website:
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:23:54 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: On naming swords
Silk Road School wrote:
> It's curious how many people with
> expensive swords, however, seem to be of the opinion that the quality of the
> steel decides the fight, rather than the quality of the combatants' skills.
I can't recall what warlord it was who forbade his retainers to go into hock to
buy "quality" swords. He had a saying: "A sword worth a hundred gold pieces can
be overcome by one hundred spears, each worth one gold piece."
Tony
--
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Website:
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:12:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...>
Subject: RE: swords (was ...Eras)
--- Silk Road School <
silk.road.school@...>
wrote:
> think there's a spirit
> in most swords - particularly well-made ones - and I
> think it becomes more
> 'awake' with love and use. That's the impression
> that's grown on me over
> the past thirty-some years of practise. I will
> admit that it's an
> interpretation of available phenomena that is open
> to argument, but that's
> my view.
If you want to argue that a sword has "spirit" as any
piece of art would, I'll buy it. If you tell me your
sword talks to you, you're nuts. Sorry.
> Until you've been guilt-tripped by a sword that
> feels neglected, you've
> never been guilt-tripped. "How" is a very
> reasonable, but somewhat
> difficult, question to answer, as the most natural
> response falls into the
> "If you have to ask, I can't explain it" category
And here I thought you were better than all the
wannabe samurai, Gereg...
Nate - apostrophising the possessive "its"? Tsk,
> tsk.
Have I ONCE ever criticised someone for making one
mistake? No. Do I consistently do this, to the point
of sheer idiocy, while everyone pleads with me not to?
No. You're starting to push my buttons, Gereg.
Please bear
> in mind that while I have seen considerable magic in
> my life, I do not
> believe in the supernatural.
And yet you believe your sword has a soul. Um...?
Gereg, I think you're an otherwise intelligent human
being. I'll agree to disagree on this--but to me it
sounds just as bad as any of the morons who believe
Hagakure and garbage like that.
A sword is a weapon; it can be a work of art. However,
it's not born, does not go through adolescence, learn
to drive, take dates to the prom, or have kids, age,
and die. IT'S NOT ALIVE. It's an object. It's a
physical entity, not a spiritual one.
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:19:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
--- Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...> wrote:
Some houses even maintained
> draconian punishments like
> banishment or forced seppuku for those caught
> studying literature or playing
> games or musical instruments; they deemed these
> pastimes as "unworthy" of the
> warrior.
>
> Other houses felt that, well, "bunbu ichi."
Well! That can't be! All samurai were good and noble
and, and, and...their swords talked to them!
I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:17:53 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: swords (was ...Eras)
Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> If you want to argue that a sword has "spirit" as any
> piece of art would, I'll buy it. If you tell me your
> sword talks to you, you're nuts. Sorry.
Ah, but it does, my precious. Late at night, when everyone'sss assssleep. It
tellssss me to kill.... It wantssss me to kill it doesssss.... yessss my
precioussssss.
>Gollum<
> A sword is a weapon; it can be a work of art. However,
> it's not born, does not go through adolescence, learn
> to drive, take dates to the prom, or have kids, age,
> and die. IT'S NOT ALIVE. It's an object. It's a
> physical entity, not a spiritual one.
Now you're hurting the feelingsss of my precioussss.
My dear Magonote-maru....
Tony (over caffeinated)
--
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Website:
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:19:37 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.
(Pssst. Mt. Fuji's a cardboard cutout.)
Tony
--
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Website:
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:36:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...>
Subject: Re: swords (was ...Eras)
You know, the Ring was the first thing I thought of
when people talk about this.
And now I'll get a torrent of "you just don't
understands" and "you're no true samurai" posts. Of
course, I DON'T understand, and these people aren't
"true samurai" either, but that will do nothing to
dissuade them.
--- Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...> wrote:
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
>
> > If you want to argue that a sword has "spirit" as
> any
> > piece of art would, I'll buy it. If you tell me
> your
> > sword talks to you, you're nuts. Sorry.
>
> Ah, but it does, my precious. Late at night, when
> everyone'sss assssleep. It
> tellssss me to kill.... It wantssss me to kill it
> doesssss.... yessss my
> precioussssss.
>
> >Gollum<
>
> > A sword is a weapon; it can be a work of art.
> However,
> > it's not born, does not go through adolescence,
> learn
> > to drive, take dates to the prom, or have kids,
> age,
> > and die. IT'S NOT ALIVE. It's an object. It's a
> > physical entity, not a spiritual one.
>
> Now you're hurting the feelingsss of my precioussss.
>
> My dear Magonote-maru....
>
>
> Tony (over caffeinated)
> --
>
> Anthony J. Bryant
> Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
>
> Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
> http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
>
> Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
> http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
>
>
>
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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:37:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
--- Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...> wrote:
> Nate Ledbetter wrote:
>
> > I hate it when my idyllic images are shattered.
>
> (Pssst. Mt. Fuji's a cardboard cutout.)
Dang big one. The pictures I took yesterday looked SO
real, too...
(it's pretty cool to be shooting weapons on a range
with Mt Fuji directly to your right...)
Nate
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:36:08 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: swords (was ...Eras)
Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> You know, the Ring was the first thing I thought of
> when people talk about this.
Th'art not the only one...
> And now I'll get a torrent of "you just don't
> understands" and "you're no true samurai" posts. Of
> course, I DON'T understand, and these people aren't
> "true samurai" either, but that will do nothing to
> dissuade them.
Well, there ya go. You're officially beyond hope. Well done. :)
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:41:18 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> (it's pretty cool to be shooting weapons on a range
> with Mt Fuji directly to your right...)
Traverse right! Make your range...
One of the coolest things ever: The first two years I lived in Japan, I was in
Tokyo's far west suburbs, not too far from (Da)saitama. There was one stretch of
track on the Seibu-Ikebukuro Line that was elevated -- somewhere near Nerima, I
think. If you take the train at the right time in the late afternoon, you hit
the elevated section while the sun is going down behind Mt. Fuji. WAAAAAAY off
in the distance the sky is orange, with that distinctive silhouette on the
horizon. It was a view to live for.
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
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Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:55:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Nate Ledbetter <
ltdomer98@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
--- Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...> wrote:
> It was a view to live for.
>
> Tony
We're going to Hakone for Christmas. I can't wait!
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:53:33 -0600
From: Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...>
Subject: Re: Japan eras - bunbu ichi/bunbu no ichi
Nate Ledbetter wrote:
> We're going to Hakone for Christmas. I can't wait!
..... must.... not.... hate.... must.... aAAARRRrrrghhhHHH!
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:21:00 +0700
From: "Michael Peters" <
shdwstel@...>
Subject: RE: swords (was ...Eras)
>If you want to argue that a sword has "spirit" as any
>piece of art would, I'll buy it. If you tell me your
>sword talks to you, you're nuts. Sorry.
>
Nate,
A little strong I'd say. Let's take a different approach. You pick up
*something* that you are trained to handle. The weight, balance and feel are
perfect for *you*, not in any way you can express. Something subliminal.
Then that object *speaks* to you. I know I felt that way the first time I
picked up a Glock 19 (and proceeded to put an extended clip in a silver
dollar sized circle at 30 yards. Some of my best shooting ever). Sure a
standard issue M1911A1 will do the job, but it doesn't feel the same. For
the same reason I haven't bought a takeyumi at Asahi. Nothing there *spoke*
to me. As a craftsman, lots of things *speak* to me on some level. I expect
it's projection, like people ascribing human emotions to thier pets.
I wouldn't worry about it unless the gollum conversations begin. ;)
M.J.Peters
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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:23:05 -0800 (PST)
From: mark kd <
depos42300@...>
Subject: Re: The Last Samurai, the movie. To: Tony Bryant
hello tony,
com'on man,...it was pretty good.?? I've seen a handful "samurai" movies in the past, (and yes, they might portray samurai a little better) but this is the 2000's, not the 1900's (lol). People like to see cool stuff like the Last Samurai even if it isn't all that accurate. You can't tell me you've seen any better Samurai "battle" scenes in another movies from the past?? (if so, please let me know so i can watch them). I think it was a great movie to boost the Samurai history for people of today. It taught a lot of people to respect them for who they were/are. I know my friends,(who hate history stuff & think i'm a dork for liking it) thought it was an awesome movie. They were like...."Wow, those guys could really kick butt" I don't know,....maybe i'm wrong??? All i know is that the movie gave me even more insentive to practice kendo and TRY to make my own samurai armour(still in the making,....delayed temp. b/c of my newborn 2 weeks old). Tony, just watch it again and tell me that
those battle scenes don't want to make you get up, build a time machine, go back to yrs.1300-1600, join a samurai clan(hopefully a good one), and fight in a huge battle!!!!!!!!!! Plus, Japanese back then were only like 4ft. tall so you already got a huge hieght advantage(lol). Well, my times up. Have a good one.
Yours,
Mark
Anthony Bryant <
ajbryant@...> wrote:
mark kd wrote:
> if you buy the movie book(or just go to your local book store and look at
> it), it will tell you what is accurate and what is not(to some extent). I
> have the DVD w/ the directors comentary and extra stuff on a 2nd cd, & it
> goes into some detail on the realness of the movie.
They have some nerve doing so.
> They said that 1/2 is
> fake & 1/2 is not.
They lie. There is so much that's wrong with it historically that I almost
cried. Yeah, the armour's pretty. Yeah, the battles are fancy. But historically
it was totally crapola.
Frankly, I'd think that Watanabe Ken and Sanada Hiroyuki ought to be
embarrassed. They've each made dozens of films -- some crappy, some really good
-- and the one they get international reputations for is this American "Dances
With Samurai" piece of steaming, fetid poop.
I finally caught it on HBO last night, after months and months of refusing to go
pay to see it, rent it, or buy it.
It made me sick.
Tony
--
Anthony J. Bryant
Website:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:27:45 -0700
From: James Hisatake <
shogun@...>
Subject: Re: The Last Samurai, the movie.
I have hardly earned the right to address this forum. However, I would
like to point out a book entitled "The Last Samurai" by Professor Mark
Ravina(sp?). I believe that this book gives an albeit abbreviated
synopsis of the actual events.
Sincerely,
James Hisatake
On Dec 13, 2004, at 3:04 PM, mark kd wrote:
>
>
> if you buy the movie book(or just go to your local book store and look
> at it), it will tell you what is accurate and what is not(to some
> extent). I have the DVD w/ the directors comentary and extra stuff on
> a 2nd cd, & it goes into some detail on the realness of the movie.
> They said that 1/2 is fake & 1/2 is not.I can't really tell which is
> which, but it was a great movie in my mind. I take kendo & are into
> samurai swords and armour, that's maybe why it was good to me? All in
> all, don't tell one of the samurai actors in the movie it was cheesy
> b/c they all knew what they were doing(all of them were trained to use
> swords ie...kendo,iaido.....)good stuff!!!
> Yours,
> Mark
>
> "david a. sigler" <fiat_dux_das@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I just got done finally watching the movie the "Last Samurai." I
> found it so tediously dull it isn't funny; Tom Cruz cannot act and I
> don't care who tries to convince me otherwise. The battle scenes were
> great, the scenery was fairly good, but the movie was bad. My
> question is a simple one, what, if any of it, was historically
> accurate?
> david a sigler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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