Japan Eras

Hello everybody!

I have long thought whether to "break the silence" and ask something, seeing as newcomers (newbies) are not always welcome and especially because english is not my native language...I know, I am easily intimidated...not good for me, but emotions are hard to control (I read somewhere on the forum that it's good to "grow a thick skin", so I am growing one :) ). I came across samurai-archives.com by browsing the web in search of Japan related stuff, I have subscribed to the forum and have been reading the discussions for approximately 2 weeks now.
Anyway, since I am digressing, I'll get to the point. I would like to know the chronologic order of the japanese eras, eventually before Heian Period, and up untill The Meiji Restoration, at least the most important ones, since I understand that an era would have started and ended whenever a personality (daimyo, general or military prominent person) would have realised something extraordinary (please correct me if I am wrong...I realise the probability that I am is high, so any correction would be whole heartedly welcome). I am asking this because I need a sort of "backbone" from which I can learn more.
Oh, and another thing, I would like to learn the japanese language, but for a self-taught like myself it seems almost impossible. Seeing that I am from the Eastern Europe, and books about Japan hardly get here (on-line shopping is out of the question for now, because, for example, Amazon does not cover my area - and also because I am somehow "financially-challenged" at the moment :D ), I mostly use the www. So, here is a list of sites that I use, please tell me if they are ok:
1. Jeffrey's Japanese-English Dictionary Server at www.solon.org (EDICT)
2. Jim Breen's Japanese Page
3. Nagasaki University Old Picture Database
4. www.kanjisite.com
These are my "personal favorites", if I can call them that.

I would also appreciate if you could direct me to some online japanese literature books (public domain, of course), since I can't buy any ( I know I ask much...but, hey, hope dies last...)

This beeing said, I thank you for your time and expect your answers

Respectfully,

Gabriel


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Hello again!

I beg my forgiveness, but at about 10 minutes from sending my first mail to you, I came cross what I was looking for, and I would like to know if it is accurate:


Heian Period (794-1185)
The samurai's importance and influence grew during the Heian Period, when powerful landowners hired private warriors for the protection of their properties. Towards the end of the Heian Period, two military clans, the Minamoto and Taira, had grown so powerful that they seized control over the country and fought wars for supremacy against each other.
Kamakura Period (1192-1333)
In 1185, the Minamoto defeated the Taira, and Minamoto Yoritomo established a new military government in Kamakura in 1192. As shogun, the highest military officer, he became the ruler of Japan.
Muromachi Period (1333 - 1573)
During the chaotic Era of Warring States (sengoku jidai, 1467-1573), Japan consisted of dozens of independent states which were constantly fighting each other. Consequently, the demand for samurai was very high. Between the wars, many samurai were working on farms. Many of the famous samurai movies by Kurosawa take place during this era.
Azuchi-Momoyama Period (1573 - 1603)
When Toyotomi Hideyoshi reunited Japan, he started to introduce a rigid social caste system which was later completed by Tokugawa Ieyasu and his successors. Hideyoshi forced all samurai to decide between a life on the farm and a warrior life in castle towns. Furthermore, he forbade anyone but the samurai to arm themselves with a sword.
Edo Period (1603 - 1868)
According to the Edo Period's official hierarchy of social castes, the samurai stood at the top, followed by the farmers, artisans and merchants. Furthermore, there were hierarchies within each caste. All samurai were forced to live in castle towns and received income from their lords in form of rice. Masterless samurai were called ronin and caused minor troubles during the early Edo Period.
With the fall of Osaka Castle in 1615, the Tokugawa's last potential rival was eliminated, and relative peace prevailed in Japan for about 250 years. As a result, the importance of martial skills declined, and most samurai became bureaucrats, teachers or artists.

P.S.: this is from japan-guide.com, a site which I have just discovered.

Thank you

Respectfully,

Gabriel



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--- Gabriel Dodu <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

> I have long thought whether to "break the silence"
> and ask something, seeing as newcomers (newbies) are
> not always welcome and especially because english is
> not my native language...I know, I am easily
> intimidated...not good for me, but emotions are hard
> to control (I read somewhere on the forum that it's
> good to "grow a thick skin", so I am growing one :)

Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
unwelcome. As for English not being your native
language--YOU are the one that all these other people
must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
what is your native language?)

> Anyway, since I am digressing, I'll get to the
> point. I would like to know the chronologic order of
> the japanese eras, eventually before Heian Period,
> and up untill The Meiji Restoration, at least the
> most important ones, since I understand that an era
> would have started and ended whenever a personality
> (daimyo, general or military prominent person) would
> have realised something extraordinary (please
> correct me if I am wrong...I realise the probability
> that I am is high, so any correction would be whole
> heartedly welcome). I am asking this because I need
> a sort of "backbone" from which I can learn more.

Ooh, that's a toughie. You are referring to year
periods, I assume? There are a lot of them. The best
list I know of is here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm

That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
long enough.

> mostly use the www. So, here is a list of sites that
> I use, please tell me if they are ok:
> 1. Jeffrey's Japanese-English Dictionary Server at
> www.solon.org (EDICT)
> 2. Jim Breen's Japanese Page
> 3. Nagasaki University Old Picture Database
> 4. www.kanjisite.com
> These are my "personal favorites", if I can call
> them that.

Gimme some time to check them out, and I'll get back
to you :)




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--- Gabriel Dodu <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

>
> Hello again!
>
> I beg my forgiveness, but at about 10 minutes from
> sending my first mail to you, I came cross what I
> was looking for, and I would like to know if it is
> accurate:
>

Ah, okay--so you were looking for period names, not
the year naming system. Well, at least you found it!



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--- Gabriel Dodu <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

>
> Hello again!
>
> I beg my forgiveness, but at about 10 minutes from
> sending my first mail to you, I came cross what I
> was looking for, and I would like to know if it is
> accurate:
>

Ah, okay--so you were looking for period names, not
the year naming system. Well, at least you found it!



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--- Gabriel Dodu <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

>
> Hello again!
>
> I beg my forgiveness, but at about 10 minutes from
> sending my first mail to you, I came cross what I
> was looking for, and I would like to know if it is
> accurate:
>

Ah, okay--so you were looking for period names, not
the year naming system. Well, at least you found it!



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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> Ooh, that's a toughie. You are referring to year
> periods, I assume? There are a lot of them. The best
> list I know of is here:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
>
> That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> if I can dig up anything prior to that.

In English:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_e.html
In Japanese:
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_j.html

Linked from http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/calendar.html

Tony
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
> unwelcome. As for English not being your native
> language--YOU are the one that all these other people
> must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
> QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
> THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
> what is your native language?)

My native language is romanian. I am from Romania, and please don't
start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram Stoker. It did
wonders for our Travelling Industry, but it crippled our history...:(

> http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
>
> That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
> changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
> that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
> Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
> it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
> the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
> included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
> particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
> long enough.

Thank you for the information, it's good to know things as they
were. About that site, I wish I had a sword, so that I could properly
use it by reading what is signed on it...no, no, don't fear, I don't
intend to ask for information about purchasing a katana and about
the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like the site,
though...

By the way, if you get to check out EDICT, maybe you can find out
how to search for expressions, because I couldn't. Even if I
select "full regular expression", it concatenates my words into a
single one, which, of course, the server can't understand. This is
the exact link of one of the mirrors:

http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict

Other than that, thank you for your time and I hope we get to chat
some more.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
> unwelcome. As for English not being your native
> language--YOU are the one that all these other people
> must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
> QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
> THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
> what is your native language?)

My native language is romanian. I am from Romania, and please don't
start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram Stoker. It did
wonders for our Travelling Industry, but it crippled our history...:(

> http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
>
> That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
> changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
> that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
> Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
> it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
> the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
> included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
> particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
> long enough.

Thank you for the information, it's good to know things as they
were. About that site, I wish I had a sword, so that I could properly
use it by reading what is signed on it...no, no, don't fear, I don't
intend to ask for information about purchasing a katana and about
the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like the site,
though...

By the way, if you get to check out EDICT, maybe you can find out
how to search for expressions, because I couldn't. Even if I
select "full regular expression", it concatenates my words into a
single one, which, of course, the server can't understand. This is
the exact link of one of the mirrors:

http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict

Other than that, thank you for your time and I hope we get to chat
some more.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

--- Dodu Gabriel <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

> My native language is romanian. I am from Romania,
> and please don't
> start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram
> Stoker.

No Dracula jokes, I promise. Is Frankenstein okay?

no, no,

> don't fear, I don't
> intend to ask for information about purchasing a
> katana and about
> the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like
> the site,
> though...

Were you interested, we do have a few sword experts
(I'm not one of them). Swords can be cool as long as
you don't get all freaky.

Nate



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--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> In English:
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_e.html

> In Japanese:
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_j.html

>
> Linked from
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/calendar.html


Tony, I have to give recommendations for someone else
every once in a while.

At least until I'm on commission.

:)



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Mr. Gabriel:

Impressive. Your English is excellent. Are you sure you're not a "ringer" posting from middle Ohio? You made me look up "concatenates." I think I heard the word used ONCE back in 1992.

To the crowd at large, not just our erudite Romanian, I could be wrong, but my ex-wife's aiee (sword) teacher (no, dear reader, I have no idea how it is spelled, since I have never ever seen it in print) told me that the great sword makers had stopped making katanas and moved into making kitchen knives, since that's where the money is. Now, I can see perhaps where it would be extra handy to have a ginsu knife for chopping garlic instead of your trusty katana, but maybe that's just me. Some of you might enjoy the garlic chopping with a larger blade. Some of you might be a little unhinged if you do, since that strikes me (ha) as a foolish approach. So, is there any truth to this rumor that the great swordmakers are still out there, just making steak knives for Williams Sonoma? (Incidentally, the ex and myself are on excellent terms, so no need to fear for my safety. Thank you for your concern.)

Your most obedient,

Matt

Dodu Gabriel <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:
--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
> unwelcome. As for English not being your native
> language--YOU are the one that all these other people
> must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
> QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
> THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
> what is your native language?)

My native language is romanian. I am from Romania, and please don't
start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram Stoker. It did
wonders for our Travelling Industry, but it crippled our history...:(

> http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
>
> That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
> changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
> that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
> Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
> it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
> the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
> included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
> particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
> long enough.

Thank you for the information, it's good to know things as they
were. About that site, I wish I had a sword, so that I could properly
use it by reading what is signed on it...no, no, don't fear, I don't
intend to ask for information about purchasing a katana and about
the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like the site,
though...

By the way, if you get to check out EDICT, maybe you can find out
how to search for expressions, because I couldn't. Even if I
select "full regular expression", it concatenates my words into a
single one, which, of course, the server can't understand. This is
the exact link of one of the mirrors:

http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict

Other than that, thank you for your time and I hope we get to chat
some more.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Matt wrote,


"the great sword makers had stopped making katanas and moved into making
kitchen knives, since that's where the money is. "

More likely good extra money. There is a limit on how many swords they are
allowed to produce annually.

M.J. Peters

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Nate Ledbetter wrote:

> Tony, I have to give recommendations for someone else
> every once in a while.

Okay... I can live with that.

> At least until I'm on commission.

So is ginko furikomi fine by you, or would you prefer a personal check? :)

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

--- Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:

> So is ginko furikomi fine by you, or would you
> prefer a personal check? :)

If you can do ginko furikomi, I can give you my
realtor's account--whatever you put in will go towards
my rent!



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--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

>
> Were you interested, we do have a few sword experts
> (I'm not one of them). Swords can be cool as long as
> you don't get all freaky.
>
> Nate
>

Thank you, Nate, I am interested in swords, can't say that I'm not.
I don't know much, so an expert's opinion would be most welcome. I
like the www.toledoswords.com site, mostly because it's one of the
few I have visited (so I only know about their opinion). Is it ok?
Oh, and don't be afraid, as I have no intention on getting freaky, I
just like to learn about the historical events that have taken place
throughout the world, and in that matter the Discovery Channel has
been of great help ;)
I am also very interested in sailships, but that does not make the
object of this forum, so sorry I've mentioned it.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

Hello Matt!

Funny garlic thingy there...:)) I think there should have been a
cross also. But leaving this aside (I hope this type of utterance is
permitted in english), the katana stuff was only inteded as a joke,
as I was reading a lot of "bollocks" (as Mr. Bryant said once) on
other forums regarding the Samurai matter.

By the way, are you familiar with the Toledo Swordmasters (the
spanish Toledo, because there are others)? They have some very nice
replicas (is that the word?) of historical swords.

Respectfully,

Gabriel


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Matt Bowes
wrote:

>
> Mr. Gabriel:
>
> Impressive. Your English is excellent. Are you sure you're not

a "ringer" posting from middle Ohio? You made me look
up "concatenates." I think I heard the word used ONCE back in 1992.

>
> To the crowd at large, not just our erudite Romanian, I could be

wrong, but my ex-wife's aiee (sword) teacher (no, dear reader, I have
no idea how it is spelled, since I have never ever seen it in print)
told me that the great sword makers had stopped making katanas and
moved into making kitchen knives, since that's where the money is.
Now, I can see perhaps where it would be extra handy to have a ginsu
knife for chopping garlic instead of your trusty katana, but maybe
that's just me. Some of you might enjoy the garlic chopping with a
larger blade. Some of you might be a little unhinged if you do,
since that strikes me (ha) as a foolish approach. So, is there any
truth to this rumor that the great swordmakers are still out there,
just making steak knives for Williams Sonoma? (Incidentally, the ex
and myself are on excellent terms, so no need to fear for my safety.
Thank you for your concern.)

>
> Your most obedient,
>
> Matt
>
> Dodu Gabriel wrote:
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
> wrote:
> >
> > Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
> > unwelcome. As for English not being your native
> > language--YOU are the one that all these other people
> > must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
> > QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
> > THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
> > what is your native language?)
>
> My native language is romanian. I am from Romania, and please don't
> start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram Stoker. It did
> wonders for our Travelling Industry, but it crippled our history...:

(

>
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
> >
> > That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> > for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> > if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
> > changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
> > that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
> > Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
> > it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
> > the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
> > included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
> > particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
> > long enough.
>
> Thank you for the information, it's good to know things as they
> were. About that site, I wish I had a sword, so that I could

properly

> use it by reading what is signed on it...no, no, don't fear, I

don't

> intend to ask for information about purchasing a katana and about
> the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like the site,
> though...
>
> By the way, if you get to check out EDICT, maybe you can find out
> how to search for expressions, because I couldn't. Even if I
> select "full regular expression", it concatenates my words into a
> single one, which, of course, the server can't understand. This is
> the exact link of one of the mirrors:
>
> http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict
>
> Other than that, thank you for your time and I hope we get to chat
> some more.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Gabriel
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gabriel -

The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking - marketing what 'looks
good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.

As a one-time iaidoka, I am not enamoured of their products - by the look of it there's
more wrong than there's right.

I suggest searching for 'nihonto' rather than 'samurai sword' or 'katana' or the like, at least
you might get to a somewhat knowledgeable site. There are others here who know a hell
of a lot more than I do, so if you have any specific questions, ask away (but please, not
about ninja straight swords, which are pure invention).

Thomas

Swords are still being made by the old methods by a few people. These swords are produced in a limited quantity, (two per month per smith I believe), in order to keep the quality high. So if you want one expect to spend a bit as well as possibly being on a waiting list.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Bowes
To: samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [samuraihistory] Re: Japan Eras



Mr. Gabriel:

Impressive. Your English is excellent. Are you sure you're not a "ringer" posting from middle Ohio? You made me look up "concatenates." I think I heard the word used ONCE back in 1992.

To the crowd at large, not just our erudite Romanian, I could be wrong, but my ex-wife's aiee (sword) teacher (no, dear reader, I have no idea how it is spelled, since I have never ever seen it in print) told me that the great sword makers had stopped making katanas and moved into making kitchen knives, since that's where the money is. Now, I can see perhaps where it would be extra handy to have a ginsu knife for chopping garlic instead of your trusty katana, but maybe that's just me. Some of you might enjoy the garlic chopping with a larger blade. Some of you might be a little unhinged if you do, since that strikes me (ha) as a foolish approach. So, is there any truth to this rumor that the great swordmakers are still out there, just making steak knives for Williams Sonoma? (Incidentally, the ex and myself are on excellent terms, so no need to fear for my safety. Thank you for your concern.)

Your most obedient,

Matt




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thomas:
Your excellent suggestion yielded some websites of interest,
particularly Mr. Sinclair's articles at
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/history.htm
in which the past and current Japanese Ni-honto are discussed.

Interestingly, he explains in that particular article the whole 24
swords a year standard and from what it sprung, and who regulates
the entire sword making trade in Japan, and so on. It also gave me
some insights on the folks who claim to have a "Japanese Samurai
Sword from World War Two." According to Mr. Sinclair, 90% of Showa
swords are, essentially, little more than mass-produced blades,
which is a pity.

Matt
--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson"
wrote:

>
> Hi Gabriel -
>
> The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking -

marketing what 'looks

> good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.
>
> As a one-time iaidoka, I am not enamoured of their products - by

the look of it there's

> more wrong than there's right.
>
> I suggest searching for 'nihonto' rather than 'samurai sword'

or 'katana' or the like, at least

> you might get to a somewhat knowledgeable site. There are others

here who know a hell

> of a lot more than I do, so if you have any specific questions,

ask away (but please, not

> about ninja straight swords, which are pure invention).
>
> Thomas

Hello there,
This is Tres writing today. Love reading the discussions. I am curious as to who knows what the birds are called on the 'Yagyu' emblem? And why they decided to use these birds in their crest? Thanks for any information.
-Tres-

Nate Ledbetter <ltdomer98@...> wrote:


--- Anthony Bryant wrote:

> In English:
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_e.html

> In Japanese:
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/yearsinnihon_j.html

>
> Linked from
>

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/calendar.html


Tony, I have to give recommendations for someone else
every once in a while.

At least until I'm on commission.

:)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not particularly knowledgable on the various swordmakers out there - in fact, my knowledge is probably far eclipsed by yours.

I didn't intend the garlic remark as a joke! I was merely thinking of what I commonly do with kitchen knives, and one of them is chopping garlic for a good soffrito, after you've cooked the onions in oil to a nice pale transparency (because the onions need to cook longer than the garlic). No cross necessary for that. The whole vampire myth- vampires wouldn't last a week in Italy, would they?

Now, why would sword makers be limited in their production of fine blades each year? Is it a law? And what would be the purpose of that law, beyond artificially driving the price of each sword up? It sounds like a protectionist Japanese law, sort of like how DeBeers limits the sales of diamonds to artifically drive up the price.

Matt



Dodu Gabriel <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:


Hello Matt!

Funny garlic thingy there...:)) I think there should have been a
cross also. But leaving this aside (I hope this type of utterance is
permitted in english), the katana stuff was only inteded as a joke,
as I was reading a lot of "bollocks" (as Mr. Bryant said once) on
other forums regarding the Samurai matter.

By the way, are you familiar with the Toledo Swordmasters (the
spanish Toledo, because there are others)? They have some very nice
replicas (is that the word?) of historical swords.

Respectfully,

Gabriel


--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Matt Bowes
wrote:

>
> Mr. Gabriel:
>
> Impressive. Your English is excellent. Are you sure you're not

a "ringer" posting from middle Ohio? You made me look
up "concatenates." I think I heard the word used ONCE back in 1992.

>
> To the crowd at large, not just our erudite Romanian, I could be

wrong, but my ex-wife's aiee (sword) teacher (no, dear reader, I have
no idea how it is spelled, since I have never ever seen it in print)
told me that the great sword makers had stopped making katanas and
moved into making kitchen knives, since that's where the money is.
Now, I can see perhaps where it would be extra handy to have a ginsu
knife for chopping garlic instead of your trusty katana, but maybe
that's just me. Some of you might enjoy the garlic chopping with a
larger blade. Some of you might be a little unhinged if you do,
since that strikes me (ha) as a foolish approach. So, is there any
truth to this rumor that the great swordmakers are still out there,
just making steak knives for Williams Sonoma? (Incidentally, the ex
and myself are on excellent terms, so no need to fear for my safety.
Thank you for your concern.)

>
> Your most obedient,
>
> Matt
>
> Dodu Gabriel wrote:
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
> wrote:
> >
> > Newbies are welcome unless they make themselves
> > unwelcome. As for English not being your native
> > language--YOU are the one that all these other people
> > must be learning to hate. Your writing skills were
> > QUITE good--if it's not your native language, then
> > THEY have no excuse. WELCOME!!!! (and so that we know,
> > what is your native language?)
>
> My native language is romanian. I am from Romania, and please don't
> start with the Dracula stuff, because I hate Bram Stoker. It did
> wonders for our Travelling Industry, but it crippled our history...:

(

>
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm
> >
> > That only begins in year 1201, but does give the kanji
> > for each period, and the alternate periods. I'll see
> > if I can dig up anything prior to that. As for
> > changing the period name, it was the Emperor who did
> > that--not the daimyo, Shogun, or any military person.
> > Someone else may have "suggested" to the Emperor that
> > it would be a good time for a name change, but it was
> > the Emperor who actually did it. Reasons for changing
> > included a portentous sign, a natural disaster, a
> > particularly good event, or just because they'd gone
> > long enough.
>
> Thank you for the information, it's good to know things as they
> were. About that site, I wish I had a sword, so that I could

properly

> use it by reading what is signed on it...no, no, don't fear, I

don't

> intend to ask for information about purchasing a katana and about
> the "Samurai Way of the Sword" & Stuff :)). I like the site,
> though...
>
> By the way, if you get to check out EDICT, maybe you can find out
> how to search for expressions, because I couldn't. Even if I
> select "full regular expression", it concatenates my words into a
> single one, which, of course, the server can't understand. This is
> the exact link of one of the mirrors:
>
> http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict
>
> Other than that, thank you for your time and I hope we get to chat
> some more.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Gabriel
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Dodu Gabriel <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

>I am also very interested in sailships, but that
> does not make the
> object of this forum, so sorry I've mentioned it.

No problem mentioning them. But if we're going to
discuss them for a 20 post series, then at least let's
talk about Portuguese ships going to Japan, or
something. Off topic stuff is okay, just use your
head. :)

Nate



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Ray White Buffalo wrote:

>
> Hello there, This is Tres writing today. Love reading the discussions. I am
> curious as to who knows what the birds are called on the 'Yagyu' emblem? And
> why they decided to use these birds in their crest? Thanks for any
> information.

What birds? The Yagyu kamon is two hats (the last image on
http://www.est.co.jp/fe/kamon1200/list/contents/kasa.htm )

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
wrote:

>
>
> Thomas:
> Your excellent suggestion yielded some websites of interest,
> particularly Mr. Sinclair's articles at
> http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/history.htm
> in which the past and current Japanese Ni-honto are discussed.
>
> Interestingly, he explains in that particular article the whole 24
> swords a year standard and from what it sprung, and who regulates
> the entire sword making trade in Japan, and so on. It also gave me
> some insights on the folks who claim to have a "Japanese Samurai
> Sword from World War Two." According to Mr. Sinclair, 90% of Showa
> swords are, essentially, little more than mass-produced blades,
> which is a pity.
>
> Matt
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gabriel -
> >
> > The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking -
> marketing what 'looks
> > good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.
> >
> > As a one-time iaidoka, I am not enamoured of their products - by
> the look of it there's
> > more wrong than there's right.
> >
> > I suggest searching for 'nihonto' rather than 'samurai sword'
> or 'katana' or the like, at least
> > you might get to a somewhat knowledgeable site. There are others
> here who know a hell
> > of a lot more than I do, so if you have any specific questions,
> ask away (but please, not
> > about ninja straight swords, which are pure invention).
> >
> > Thomas

Welcome to the group Gabriel

Here are a few good sites if you are interested in learning about the
history of the Japanese Sword/Nihonto.
I do not claim to be an expert on the matter but if you have any
question I will do my best to answer them.

http://members.cox.net/jkk/jpnzswd.htm

http://japanesesamuraiswords.com/

Zev

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson"
wrote:

>
> Hi Gabriel -
>
> The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking -

marketing what 'looks

> good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.

Thanks a lot, Thomas, I have come to that conclusion myself by
further browsing that site, and I have to appologise for posting it.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Nate Ledbetter
wrote:

> No problem mentioning them. But if we're going to
> discuss them for a 20 post series, then at least let's
> talk about Portuguese ships going to Japan, or
> something. Off topic stuff is okay, just use your
> head. :)
>
> Nate

Ok, Nate, so what do you think, was the first portuguese ship that
arrived in Japan a caravelle or a kogg, or perhaps a larger type of
ship, like a galleon? I don't know about this subject, so I would
like to see your point of view, especially since you are in the
marine, if I remember correctly.

Respectfully,

Gabriel

--- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, Matt Bowes
wrote:

>
> I am not particularly knowledgable on the various swordmakers out

there - in fact, my knowledge is probably far eclipsed by yours.

Now don't rush to conclusions, as I know almost nothing about
swordmakers and swords (I don't even own one).

> I didn't intend the garlic remark as a joke! I was merely thinking

of what I commonly do with kitchen knives, and one of them is
chopping garlic for a good soffrito, after you've cooked the onions
in oil to a nice pale transparency (because the onions need to cook
longer than the garlic). No cross necessary for that. The whole
vampire myth- vampires wouldn't last a week in Italy, would they?

No problem, I do not take offense at jokes, I really thought it WAS
funny. And, by the way, are you a Chef?

Respectfully,

Gabriel

Dodu Gabriel wrote:

> Ok, Nate, so what do you think, was the first portuguese ship that
> arrived in Japan a caravelle or a kogg, or perhaps a larger type of
> ship, like a galleon? I don't know about this subject, so I would
> like to see your point of view, especially since you are in the
> marine, if I remember correctly.

Cogs and caravelles were no longer being used, I believe, by the mid 16th
century. The Iberian ships traveling around Asia were typically referred to as
galleons, although in the 1540s they were probably fairly early types with some
caravelle features still in place.

Tony

--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder

Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:Dodu Gabriel wrote:

> Ok, Nate, so what do you think, was the first portuguese ship that
> arrived in Japan a caravelle or a kogg, or perhaps a larger type of
> ship, like a galleon? I don't know about this subject, so I would
> like to see your point of view, especially since you are in the
> marine, if I remember correctly.

Cogs and caravelles were no longer being used, I believe, by the mid 16th
century. The Iberian ships traveling around Asia were typically referred to as
galleons, although in the 1540s they were probably fairly early types with some
caravelle features still in place.

Tony
caravelles Were just being replaced out as you say tony, but portuguese trade post in africa were still actively using them due to the adapted sail (which i think was arabic in origin) which allowed the ship to sail headlong. Galleons became the norm ,and it bacame a kind of arms race in europe to see whom could build the largest and most decorative. Id imagine the sight of these highly decorated and large craft to indiginous peoples would be a sign of strength as well as a practical use. But as you say there maybe be a combination of both galleon and caravelles so it would be intresting to look at the early galleons to see if they retain any features of the caravelle. james willis aka not james wilson lol lizzie
--

Anthony J. Bryant
Website: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com

Effingham's Heraldic Avatars (...and stuff):
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html

Grand Cross, Order of the Laurel:
http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Dodu Gabriel <dodu_gabriel@...> wrote:

> Ok, Nate, so what do you think, was the first
> portuguese ship that
> arrived in Japan a caravelle or a kogg, or perhaps a
> larger type of
> ship, like a galleon? I don't know about this
> subject, so I would
> like to see your point of view, especially since you
> are in the
> marine, if I remember correctly.

Um, um...see Tony's answer (ducks).

And no, I'm not in the Marines. I still have all my
brain matter, and no lobotomy scars--that would mar my
beautifully round bald head. I'm in the Army.



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Gentlemen
I think some of those articles could probably take some up-dating! However,
the mass-produced blades (Showa-to) are easy enough to spot. Please also
note the correct spelling of my name SinclairE.
Regards
Clive SinclairE

----- Original Message -----
From: "zevlord" <LordZev@...>
To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:54 PM
Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Japan Swords - was Eras


>
>
> --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thomas:
> > Your excellent suggestion yielded some websites of interest,
> > particularly Mr. Sinclair's articles at
> > http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/history.htm
> > in which the past and current Japanese Ni-honto are discussed.
> >
> > Interestingly, he explains in that particular article the whole 24
> > swords a year standard and from what it sprung, and who regulates
> > the entire sword making trade in Japan, and so on. It also gave me
> > some insights on the folks who claim to have a "Japanese Samurai
> > Sword from World War Two." According to Mr. Sinclair, 90% of Showa
> > swords are, essentially, little more than mass-produced blades,
> > which is a pity.
> >
> > Matt
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Gabriel -
> > >
> > > The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking -
> > marketing what 'looks
> > > good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.
> > >
> > > As a one-time iaidoka, I am not enamoured of their products - by
> > the look of it there's
> > > more wrong than there's right.
> > >
> > > I suggest searching for 'nihonto' rather than 'samurai sword'
> > or 'katana' or the like, at least
> > > you might get to a somewhat knowledgeable site. There are others
> > here who know a hell
> > > of a lot more than I do, so if you have any specific questions,
> > ask away (but please, not
> > > about ninja straight swords, which are pure invention).
> > >
> > > Thomas
>
>
>
> Welcome to the group Gabriel
>
> Here are a few good sites if you are interested in learning about the
> history of the Japanese Sword/Nihonto.
> I do not claim to be an expert on the matter but if you have any
> question I will do my best to answer them.
>
> http://members.cox.net/jkk/jpnzswd.htm
>
> http://japanesesamuraiswords.com/
>
> Zev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> ---
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

james wallis wrote:

> *Yahoo! Groups Survey*
> Please help us to improve Yahoo! Groups. *Take the survey now!*
> <http://v2.decipherinc.com/survey/yahoo/yah04021?list=2>
>
>
>
>
>
> Anthony Bryant <ajbryant@...> wrote:Dodu Gabriel wrote:
>
>
> > Ok, Nate, so what do you think, was the first portuguese ship that
> > arrived in Japan a caravelle or a kogg, or perhaps a larger type of
> > ship, like a galleon? I don't know about this subject, so I would
> > like to see your point of view, especially since you are in the
> > marine, if I remember correctly.
>
> Cogs and caravelles were no longer being used, I believe, by the mid 16th
> century. The Iberian ships traveling around Asia were typically
> referred to as
> galleons, although in the 1540s they were probably fairly early types
> with some
> caravelle features still in place.
>
> Tony
> caravelles Were just being replaced out as you say tony, but
> portuguese trade post in africa were still actively using them due to
> the adapted sail (which i think was arabic in origin) which allowed
> the ship to sail headlong. Galleons became the norm ,and it bacame a
> kind of arms race in europe to see whom could build the largest and
> most decorative. Id imagine the sight of these highly decorated and
> large craft to indiginous peoples would be a sign of strength as well
> as a practical use. But as you say there maybe be a combination of
> both galleon and caravelles so it would be intresting to look at the
> early galleons to see if they retain any features of the caravelle.
> james willis aka not james wilson lol lizzie
> --
>

Of course, IIRC, the first Portuguese to step on Japanese soil arrived
on (or from the wreck) of a Chineese Junk. ;-)

Dan Cooper


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I cry your pardon! There are some problems with having a list such as this
one which is so well-connected, such as when you misspell someone's name in
passing and... you can see the results. My apologies. Regardless of the
updating needed, the articles I found to be quite excellent and interesting
reading. I'm pleasantly surprised that you, Mr. Sinclaire (with an "e," with
an "e") are here on the Samurai (with a "u" not an "a") list.

Matt
--- Clive Sinclaire <CSinclaire@...> wrote:

> Gentlemen
> I think some of those articles could probably take some up-dating! However,
> the mass-produced blades (Showa-to) are easy enough to spot. Please also
> note the correct spelling of my name SinclairE.
> Regards
> Clive SinclairE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "zevlord" <LordZev@...>
> To: <samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:54 PM
> Subject: [samuraihistory] Re: Japan Swords - was Eras
>
>
> >
> >
> > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Thomas:
> > > Your excellent suggestion yielded some websites of interest,
> > > particularly Mr. Sinclair's articles at
> > > http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/history.htm
> > > in which the past and current Japanese Ni-honto are discussed.
> > >
> > > Interestingly, he explains in that particular article the whole 24
> > > swords a year standard and from what it sprung, and who regulates
> > > the entire sword making trade in Japan, and so on. It also gave me
> > > some insights on the folks who claim to have a "Japanese Samurai
> > > Sword from World War Two." According to Mr. Sinclair, 90% of Showa
> > > swords are, essentially, little more than mass-produced blades,
> > > which is a pity.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > > --- In samuraihistory@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Davidson"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gabriel -
> > > >
> > > > The toledo sword site looks a bit too commercial for my liking -
> > > marketing what 'looks
> > > > good' and will sell, rather than what is correct.
> > > >
> > > > As a one-time iaidoka, I am not enamoured of their products - by
> > > the look of it there's
> > > > more wrong than there's right.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest searching for 'nihonto' rather than 'samurai sword'
> > > or 'katana' or the like, at least
> > > > you might get to a somewhat knowledgeable site. There are others
> > > here who know a hell
> > > > of a lot more than I do, so if you have any specific questions,
> > > ask away (but please, not
> > > > about ninja straight swords, which are pure invention).
> > > >
> > > > Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> > Welcome to the group Gabriel
> >
> > Here are a few good sites if you are interested in learning about the
> > history of the Japanese Sword/Nihonto.
> > I do not claim to be an expert on the matter but if you have any
> > question I will do my best to answer them.
> >
> > http://members.cox.net/jkk/jpnzswd.htm
> >
> > http://japanesesamuraiswords.com/
> >
> > Zev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Samurai Archives: http://www.samurai-archives.com
> > Samurai Archives store: http://www.cafeshops.com/samuraiarchives
> > ---
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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Dear Matt:
No,,,, NO... No! In fact, this word, "concatenates"
has been used even after 1992.

In one of proofs of theorems in Munkres' 'Introduction
to Topology', you may find word, "concatenates" used.
In complex analysis, in description and a proof of
'analytic continuation', we can also find word,
"concatenates" used.

--- Matt Bowes <yeomanforbes@...> wrote:

>
> Mr. Gabriel:
>
> Impressive. Your English is excellent. Are you
> sure you're not a "ringer" posting from middle Ohio?
> You made me look up "concatenates." I think I
> heard the word used ONCE back in 1992.

I am not really sure of what the intent of this
'ENGLISH' issues are. But, I think that confiding in
English would not help us to 'grow' in any place in
the world.

Folks, it is the 21st century we are living in...




Best Wishes,




Changsub Lee



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